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The Conspiracy Against Alpha Protocol


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#41
Deus Ex Machina

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I've already posted this elsewhere, but I've finally played AP and I can say that, IMO, the majority of criticism is unwarranted and hypocritical since many "AAA" games such as Mass Effect, Oblivion and Fable 2 have the same issues that AP has.

#42
Mk1

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Sorry, but ME1 has exactly the same gameplay as AP, no wait, AP gameplay is more advanced ME1 didn't have tactical critical hits as AP has.
And in the other hand, why in the name of zeus, are you tryng to play this game as a shooter, its a damn RPG, Jesus.


Did you even play this game? "Trying to play this game as a shooter?" Just what do you think the AP missions, which form 90% of the game, are?

Depending on your style of play, the vast majority of this game is a cover-based 3rd person shooter, or a 3rd-person sneaker a la the earlier Splinter Cells, with role-playing heavy conversations IN BETWEEN THE MISSIONS. The missions themselves are almost pure action, with the occasional conversation thrown into the major story missions, but not the side ones. Aside from choosing whether you'll sneak or not, and use lethal or non-lethal force or not, the biggest choices you make are whether you'll use a zip-line to get over a fence, or sneak into a shack to hack the gate computer instead.

None of this actually makes AP a bad game, but spare me your fanboy BS. This is an action game with role-playing elements, so naturally, people are going to focus on the action.

#43
LookAndRoll

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Sorry, but ME1 has exactly the same gameplay as AP, no wait, AP gameplay is more advanced ME1 didn't have tactical critical hits as AP has.
And in the other hand, why in the name of zeus, are you tryng to play this game as a shooter, its a damn RPG, Jesus.


Did you even play this game? "Trying to play this game as a shooter?" Just what do you think the AP missions, which form 90% of the game, are?

Depending on your style of play, the vast majority of this game is a cover-based 3rd person shooter, or a 3rd-person sneaker a la the earlier Splinter Cells, with role-playing heavy conversations IN BETWEEN THE MISSIONS. The missions themselves are almost pure action, with the occasional conversation thrown into the major story missions, but not the side ones. Aside from choosing whether you'll sneak or not, and use lethal or non-lethal force or not, the biggest choices you make are whether you'll use a zip-line to get over a fence, or sneak into a shack to hack the gate computer instead.

None of this actually makes AP a bad game, but spare me your fanboy BS. This is an action game with role-playing elements, so naturally, people are going to focus on the action.


First of all, I'm no fanboy, this is my first Obsidian game.
Second, this is an Action RPG, not a shooter with rpg elements, big difference mate.
The "action" is just the means to an end, to build a character and have fun with it.
You could play as stealth spy, go punching and CQCing people in the face or go guns blazing, but you got to understand that you have to build the character first to do so.

#44
Slowtrain

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The opinion split on this game is remarkable.

I read one post and I feel like, yeah, all right, sounds good, I'll get it tomorrow. Then I read the next post and I'm like, yeah, all right, sounds like a potential POS, I'll pick it out of the bargain bin in a few months for 1/3 the price.

meh.

#45
C2B

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The opinion split on this game is remarkable.

I read one post and I feel like, yeah, all right, sounds good, I'll get it tomorrow. Then I read the next post and I'm like, yeah, all right, sounds like a potential POS, I'll pick it out of the bargain bin in a few months for 1/3 the price.

meh.


Considering its Obsidian when wasn't it. There are most of these issues but they are exterrageted. They are not worse than in most other Games. So, if you don't go into a negative mindset into this game there is a good chance you will like it.

#46
Baeus

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The opinion split on this game is remarkable.

I read one post and I feel like, yeah, all right, sounds good, I'll get it tomorrow. Then I read the next post and I'm like, yeah, all right, sounds like a potential POS, I'll pick it out of the bargain bin in a few months for 1/3 the price.

meh.


I think Mass Effect 2 created an expectation in some people, that AP, because on the outside it looks like a 3rd person shooter, should control in the same way. The fact that there's old school style rpg calculations running things under the hood really throws them off. Perhaps that isn't fair, but hey, it's their $60-$100, if they've gone off that style of game, they're free to buy something else.

On the other hand, if you go into AP accepting that it's an RPG first and foremost, that stats will determine your success rather than reflexes and twitch skills, and are happy with that sort of game, you're bound to enjoy it.

Really, on the 360, the graphics are better than what Dragon Age did (the PC versions would be another debate). And the AI is on par with ME1. Meh :)

As for a conspiracy... doubt it. Sega's not a major player anymore, but there's no reason for gamesites to put them and their delicious advertising dollars offside for fun.

Edited by Baeus, 01 June 2010 - 03:28 PM.


#47
Paraclete

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What version of those games were you playing? I never once had issues in ME/2, Oblivion, or Fallout3.

You guys can attempt to justify or rationalize your purchase all you want by talking **** about great games, but the truth of the matter, and what you need to REALIZE, is that AP has some serious issues. I know it makes your fanboy powers weak to admit it, but AP just isn't that great of a game. Sure, it has it's moments(trust me it's fun at times), but it has TOO many bugs IMO to offset those issues.


Here's the irony of your comment.

You criticize Deus Ex Machina because "you didn't have any issues with ME1/2, Oblivion, or Fallout 3."

It's possible that people don't have issues with Alpha Protocol too. I haven't found any bugs yet (but it's still early for me).

Huh?

Where did I criticize Deus Ex? That's in my top 5 games of all time

#48
C2B

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What version of those games were you playing? I never once had issues in ME/2, Oblivion, or Fallout3.

You guys can attempt to justify or rationalize your purchase all you want by talking **** about great games, but the truth of the matter, and what you need to REALIZE, is that AP has some serious issues. I know it makes your fanboy powers weak to admit it, but AP just isn't that great of a game. Sure, it has it's moments(trust me it's fun at times), but it has TOO many bugs IMO to offset those issues.


Here's the irony of your comment.

You criticize Deus Ex Machina because "you didn't have any issues with ME1/2, Oblivion, or Fallout 3."

It's possible that people don't have issues with Alpha Protocol too. I haven't found any bugs yet (but it's still early for me).

Huh?

Where did I criticize Deus Ex? That's in my top 5 games of all time


He did mean the USER "Deus Ex Machima"

Also Deus Ex? Really? Well, your just ignoring here that Deus Ex has many of the same complaints as Alpha Protocol. MANY. At release it mostly got a rating of 80-85 and it wasn't seen as a polished game. Its one of my favourite games though, too.

I see here a very different fanboy.

Edited by C2B, 01 June 2010 - 04:01 PM.


#49
Gromnir

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Okay, maybe the title is overly dramatic, but I feel that it's appropriate considering that AP is an espionage game.

Here's my problem.

I have noticed that the majority of complaints that reviewers have had with AP (framerate issues, graphical issues, animation issues, combat mechanics issues, A.I. issues, etc.) were present in several other games such as The Elder Scrolls IV : Oblivion, Fallout 3, Fable 2, Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2. However, all those games were highly received by the same reviewers that lambasted AP. Whether or not the reviewers had a personal grudge against Sega or Obsidian is uncertain, however, the hypocrisy is.

Does anyone else see the bull **** in all this?


not hypocrisy... 'least not intentional. an obsidian developer once observed that crpg fans is those most forgiving of bad mechanics. perhaps he shoulda' anticipated the ap backlash, no?

is ap a crpg or a shooter? well? am thinking that obsidian created their own elevated standard compared to the other crpgs you mentioned. obsidian made a game that looks and feels like a shooter, even if it doesn't exactly play like one. as such, in regards to mechanics and ai issues, ap is being judged by many with the shooter standard, rather than the more relaxed crpg standard.

as for ap's lack o' polish and its technical issues...

*shrug*

haven't played ap, so am not gonna speak to tech issues. nevertheless, am thinking that whatever flaws one could identify in mass effect and some o' the other AAA games you mention, lack of polish were not a primary issue.

ap is a genre bending game, and unfortunately that means that it is being judged as both a crpg and a shooter. you think it is unfair that ap should be judged so? maybe you is right, particularly if you is primarily a crpg fan. maybe you is wrong. in any case, am not seeing any conspiracy. heck, we don't even genuine see a problem with the disparity in the reviews.

HA! Good Fun!

#50
ThulsaDooom

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Ugh, sometimes I can't stand video game fans. If I defend a game, I'm instantly a fanboy.

Anyways, if any review deems this a shooter then stop reading right there and completely disregard their awful, ignorant opinion. It's a shame journalism standards are so pathetically low in the game industry but them's the breaks when you have angry nerds (Jim Sterling aka Destructoid's troll reviewer) getting picked up by Metacritic.

Obsidian doesn't have clout with major gaming review sites/mags. That's not a conspiracy, that's fact. Ubisoft doesn't have a fraction of the talent that Obsidian does yet most of their games receive moderately high to high scores. Tech demos that masquerade as games, writing that's creatively at a 6th grade level, sequels that supposedly improve on those tech demos but clearly don't, games that ship with game breaking bugs that never get patched, games with missing content (we couldn't finish it in time. honest!) that magically gets a 150KB paid DLC unlock a month later. I love Rockstar but it took them how many games to finally get the shooting mechanics to an acceptable level? The cover system in Red Dead Redemption doesn't work any better than AP's. I've probably encountered more glitches in RDR than AP.

Obsidian is one of those devs that (probably) doesn't have the money to fly reviewers out, put them in posh hotels for 3 days just for a small, half a page preview article. Obsidian (probably) doesn't have the advertising dollars to invest with these people to ensure not glowing but positive reviews.

This is what happens when you have Sega as a publisher. That company has been so out of touch with gamers for so long that it's hilarious.

#51
Slowtrain

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The opinion split on this game is remarkable.

I read one post and I feel like, yeah, all right, sounds good, I'll get it tomorrow. Then I read the next post and I'm like, yeah, all right, sounds like a potential POS, I'll pick it out of the bargain bin in a few months for 1/3 the price.

meh.


Considering its Obsidian when wasn't it. There are most of these issues but they are exterrageted. They are not worse than in most other Games. So, if you don't go into a negative mindset into this game there is a good chance you will like it.



If I had plenty of money, I would just buy it and take my chances. But, while I can afford the occasional game purchase, I really can't afford to throw away the money on a game that I don't enjoy or that's just too buggy.

If Sega/Obs released a patch, it would at least reassure me that they are standing by the game and working to make it better.

Right now, I can't even tell if they just released the game to get what money they could from gamers and are just glad to be done with it. If that is the case, I really don't want to spend money on the game. No way to tell of course. Unless time and money are spent developing a patch or two.

#52
Zoraptor

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The main problem US reviewers have are that the days of having a decent RPG specialist on the staff are long gone, so you are going to get your RPG reviewed by someone who thinks ME2 is the epitome and apogee of RPG. If you're lucky. Else you get a Halo is an RPG type or the intern who was really hoping for RDR. In Europe you're far more likely to get someone who has, well, played an actual RPG at some time in the past decade- hence the very similar review dichotomy found with Risen where most US reviewers hated it and most Euros liked it.

In any case it'd be far better if everyone ignored formal reviews and just got recommendations from people whose views they value, frankly.

#53
Bos_hybrid

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What bugs exactly Paraclete? AP is relatively bug free, please tell me these serious issues.

You compare AP to these highly rated yet seriously bugged games then I am sorry to say AP is relatively low on bugs.


:lol:

No.

1.
Spoiler

2. Numerous CTD.
3. Engine slowdown for no reason.
4. Checkpoint saves not recognizng completed objectives.
5. Guards not disappearing during Parkers mission.
6. Enemies getting stuck in walls.
7. Enemies disappearing after loading a checkpoint.
8. Alt-Tab causing crash.

I experienced all of them in one playthrough, so yes this game is buggy. Buggier than previously mentioned games.

I've already posted this elsewhere, but I've finally played AP and I can say that, IMO, the majority of criticism is unwarranted and hypocritical since many "AAA" games such as Mass Effect, Oblivion and Fable 2 have the same issues that AP has.


Again no. I myself prefer AP to Oblivion, Fable 2, FO3. But that does not render me blind to AP problems, which it definitely has.

Sorry, but ME1 has exactly the same gameplay as AP, no wait, AP gameplay is more advanced ME1 didn't have tactical critical hits as AP has.


Obviously you haven't played ME, if you had you would know the it's a 3rd person squad based game, compared to AP being a third person stealth based game. While both being action RPGs, they both tring to achive different things. It's like comparing Gears to MGS.

As for the Conspiracy against AP..... :lol:

AP from a purely C&C and interesting characters veiwpoint, is great. However this is a game and the are some serious flaw in it. The RPG mechanics are interesting. Stealth, Martial art, Sabotage and Tech are the highlights, however using pistol makes makes the game too easy, there is no reason to use SMG and Shotguns due to their ineffectiveness.

Presentation is poor, music is unremakable, AI is terrible(to be fair all RPG AI is, but in a stealth game this is made more apparent) graphics are average - poor(obviously the PS2 comparison is idiotic, but still not good), animation is poor. UI is inadequate, the lack of hotkeys on the PC port is saddening and as mentioned the game is buggy.

Having said all that it might seem that I don't like the game, the bizarre thing is I really like it. The flaws definately take away from the game, but I can't deny I'm really enjoying it. In the end it seems like it's going to be another VTM:B as others have said.

If I had plenty of money, I would just buy it and take my chances. But, while I can afford the occasional game purchase, I really can't afford to throw away the money on a game that I don't enjoy or that's just too buggy.

If Sega/Obs released a patch, it would at least reassure me that they are standing by the game and working to make it better.

Right now, I can't even tell if they just released the game to get what money they could from gamers and are just glad to be done with it. If that is the case, I really don't want to spend money on the game. No way to tell of course. Unless time and money are spent developing a patch or two.


In the end it's up to you, by your posts your not one to listen to reviewers(good thing), but look at the posters on this forum even more critically then you do reviewers. Fanboys are rarely objective. From your posts, it seems to me thake you enjoy a good game more then a good story, if that is the case, waiting for AP to drop in price might be in your best interests. But in all honesty I usually hesitate to recommend/discourage games due to peoples taste being so varied.

Edited by Bos_hybrid, 01 June 2010 - 09:50 PM.


#54
kirottu

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I think itīs kinda pointless to argue which game is the buggiest since bugs tend to be rather personal and random. In another words, the second most buggiest game I ever played was Fallout 3 and this was after I bought it from sales bin and the game had been patched five or six times. The damn thing would still crash on me almost every hour and after it crashed it would crash again in 10-20 minutes meaning I had to reboot after every single crash. Alt-tab would crash it every single time as would anti-vir pop-up and firewall warnings.

#55
HoonDing

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This is what happens when you have Sega as a publisher. That company has been so out of touch with gamers for so long that it's hilarious.

Posted Image

#56
WorstUsernameEver

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^ SEGA Japan =/= SEGA USA.
Not that I know much of Sega at all, except that AvP and AP (both with A and P as their initials in the title, yeah! :( ) turned out to be mediocre games (according to the reviewers.. me? didn't play them, except a quick try of the AvP mp demo).

#57
qaz123

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This is what happens when you have Sega as a publisher. That company has been so out of touch with gamers for so long that it's hilarious.

Posted Image


Well played sir.

#58
ThulsaDooom

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This is what happens when you have Sega as a publisher. That company has been so out of touch with gamers for so long that it's hilarious.

Posted Image


Is that the PS3 version? ;)

Don't get me started on the Yakuza localizations.

#59
Alphaboy48

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A conspiracy??? You have got to be kidding me.

From the outside looking in, you people claiming conspiracy are having a severe case of fanboyitis. It is incredibly laughable to think company's care enough to derail a game company just for the heck of it.

anything to make you feel better I guess, well I sure hope it worked, lol.

#60
Oner

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Did you even read the first sentence, Mr Apparently-fanboy-is-my-favorite-word?




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