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Question About Copy Protection (PC version)


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Said it before, but I bet those who have quick start up times for Steam have it loading at startup/ don't shut it down after a launch rather than having it start on game launch every time- that does make a large difference.

 

There's certainly no activation limit as somebody incorrectly claimed earlier in the thread.

Sure there is, you have as much access as Valve (or its partners) decide you have and they can cut it off at any time without legal recourse. To whit:

 

Either you or Valve has the right to terminate or cancel your Account or a particular Subscription at any time

 

[..]

 

..YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY FOR ANY DISPUTE WITH VALVE WITH REGARD TO STEAM OR THE STEAM SOFTWARE IS TO DISCONTINUE USE OF STEAM AND CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT..

 

Not that it means they will cut off access, just that they can and there's nothing you can do about it if they do.

 

(Yes, I did not sell my soul to Gamestop or whoever it was)

 

Earlier you said there's a 10 activation limit, now you're trying to imply Steam is going to maliciously cut people off somewhere down the track because you can't backup your original claim.

 

I find that disingenuous.

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Ah, but what Tigranes said (and you claimed was incorrect) was that it forces you to install games in the steam-folders. I know you can change where Steam goes, but what I want is control over where each individual game goes.

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Earlier you said there's a 10 activation limit, now you're trying to imply Steam is going to maliciously cut people off somewhere down the track because you can't backup your original claim.

 

I find that disingenuous.

 

Where? Show me the post. I didn't see anything like that in this thread at least. The post that started all this:

 

What, exactly do you think Steam is other than online activation? You still get exactly as many activations as a 3rd party allows you too just in this case it's Sega and Valve rather than Sega and Uniloc (don't believe me? actually read the SSA then). And it's a persistent monitoring system rather than a one off.

 

I see no mention of a 10 activation limit anywhere in this thread. You're seeing things you want to see Krezack. Zoraptor is only guilty of misleading information, not incorrect information. Valve does have the power to cut you off whenever they please and there is nothing you can do about it according to their terms. Doesn't mean they will, or that it is in any way likely, but the possibility does exist.

 

My problem with Steam is that the damn thing is so unstable on every computer I own. WinXP, WinVista, Win764, they all crash spectacularly. At least it has the decency to not hard lock my computer when it does so, but that's small comfort when it happens during approximately 50% of my game sessions.

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Zoraptor is only guilty of misleading information, not incorrect information.

I've been scrupulously accurate in everything that I've written including noting that it is unlikely that Steam will randomly go Dr Evil and cut off access for teh lulz just that they can- there's just very little practical difference between any discrete activation system be it Steam or SecuROM/ Uniloc mainly because those activation systems are largely inspired by Steam.

 

Earlier you said there's a 10 activation limit,

Haha, oh wow.

 

Post Proof Or Retract [/srs bzns]

 

now you're trying to imply Steam is going to maliciously cut people off somewhere down the track

Where does "Not that it means they will cut off access, just that they can and there's nothing you can do about it if they do" imply that- it's just a simple rephrasing of the SSA quoted above designed specifically to point out that I was not saying exactly what you accuse me of.

 

..because you can't backup your original claim.

 

I find that disingenuous.

OK, given the context I admit this did amuse me.

Edited by Zoraptor
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Uniloc was also used in another Sega-published game, Football Manager 2009. It had a 5-machine installation limit, and from memory, needed online activation with a key upon installation - but afterwards required nothing, no CD in drive, to play. Oh, and if you uninstall, you get an activation back.

 

Seems like a pretty reasonable deal.

I would say that activation limits are a bad deal, and it has pushed me from "will likely preorder" to "doubtful".

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One caveat, though - most DRM companies / products have different options that clients can use. Uniloc for FM09 did what I described, but there's no guarantee AP would do it - far from it.

 

AP could easily feature a version of Uniloc without activation limits.

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Activation limits are annoying.. but I don't know.. when you get the activation back when you uninstall a game, I don't really see that much of a major problem with it.. (although it's pain if your machine crashes out big style and you need to reinstall everything without being able to uninstall it first..). But with 5 or so activations that isn't a huuuge problem.

 

It's when you have activation limits that you can only use once that are the serious issue.

"Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."

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This is a pity. I was looking forward to AP now that I'm done with Dragon Age and Mass Effect2. But mandatory online activations and activation limits are just not something I will pay money to put up with. You do realize that if you don't wish to use up activations you'd best remember to uninstall and reclaim your activations before you ever make any hardware upgrades/changes/OS reinstalls right? And that's only assuming that their authentication servers are still around when you need them to be.

 

My wife likes to play on the xbox and I prefer PC, so we bought two new copies of both DA:O and ME2 so that we could both play at the same time. So, like as not, this DRM nonsense just cost Obsidian 2 purchases from my family. Maybe they don't care, I dunno. Regardless, I'll spend my money on other games that don't require more than a disc in drive and that allow any online transactions to be entirely voluntary. (And yeah, I know the xbox version doesn't have the DRM but since I buy the games and I play on PC, I won't support any developer who chooses to make my legal-game experience inferior to that of scum-sucking copyright infringers who pay nothing).

 

/rant

Edited by craigdolphin
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I agree with much of what you say there craigdolphin, but unfortunately you're barking up the wrong tree here. It's not Obsidian (the developer) who makes this decision, it's the publisher (SEGA) who decides on the DRM.

 

But I agree with much of your ranting. I'll still buy the game (which is the first time I'm buying a game with this kind of DRM) because I'm really looking forward to playing it myself, but yep... It kinda sucks.

Listen to my home-made recordings (some original songs, some not): http://www.youtube.c...low=grid&view=0

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I think one time online check is less hassle than having to keep the disk inside all the time. And since I can get back the activation I used even that is rather minor problem.

 

I have no problem what so ever in buying Alpha Protocol and playing it.

This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time.

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^This.

I took this job because I thought you were just a legend. Just a story. A story to scare little kids. But you're the real deal. The demon who dares to challenge God.

So what the hell do you want? Don't seem to me like you're out to make this stinkin' world a better place. Why you gotta kill all my men? Why you gotta kill me?

Nothing personal. It's just revenge.

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Uniloc was also used in another Sega-published game, Football Manager 2009. It had a 5-machine installation limit, and from memory, needed online activation with a key upon installation - but afterwards required nothing, no CD in drive, to play. Oh, and if you uninstall, you get an activation back.

 

Seems like a pretty reasonable deal.

 

And it was cracked pretty much immediately for unlimited installs for nonpaying customers to play to their hearts content.

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Geez, people.

 

It is not confirmed that Alpha Protocol PC will have limited online activations.

 

It will use a Uniloc DRM, and there have been Uniloc DRMs that have limited online activations. AP might do this, or might feature a Uniloc DRM that does not, and instead makes you rub Matt McLean's beard while singing the Titanic theme song.

 

Also, DRM is likely to be set in stone by this stage and unlikely to change; it is also up to Sega, not Obsidian.

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Has it actually been confirmed that Unilock is on all versions of AP? I find it kind of odd that they'd do so after backing down to only having it on the non-steam DD versions of Football manager 2010 after the FM09 fiasco.

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Has it actually been confirmed that Unilock is on all versions of AP? I find it kind of odd that they'd do so after backing down to only having it on the non-steam DD versions of Football manager 2010 after the FM09 fiasco.

 

As far as I am aware, nothing's been confirmed. :p

You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that?

ahyes.gifReapercussionsahyes.gif

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I agree with much of what you say there craigdolphin, but unfortunately you're barking up the wrong tree here. It's not Obsidian (the developer) who makes this decision, it's the publisher (SEGA) who decides on the DRM.

 

No, I'm sick of hearing that. The developer DOES have clout with their publisher, much as they might be happy to appear as if they don't with things like this.

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There's more exact details here: http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?p=5788545#post5788545

 

Sounds better than I thought initially. Getting activations back (even if you've used up all activations on different computers) sounds easy enough. That was my main worry.

Listen to my home-made recordings (some original songs, some not): http://www.youtube.c...low=grid&view=0

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Yep. Still, if I had to choose I would (selfishly since I have a good internet connection) choose activating the game online vs having to have the disc in the drive whenever I played.

The thing I really dislike is the activation limits, but at least it looks like you never can "lock yourself out" so to speak, that lifting an activation is easy (even if you're installing the game on a new computer and having used up the 5 activations previously). It's not exactly ideal but still better than I thought.

 

EDIT: And it's good to see them mention already that the DRM will be lifted (even if it's a fairly long time until then). Hope they keep their word on that.

Edited by Starwars

Listen to my home-made recordings (some original songs, some not): http://www.youtube.c...low=grid&view=0

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I think I said it already, but the limited number of activations doesn't bother me for a solo game like Alpha Protocol. My main problem with those is if I deinstall without the internet working : do I lose that activation, since the de-activation is made through a program in the launch interface???

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I think I said it already, but the limited number of activations doesn't bother me for a solo game like Alpha Protocol. My main problem with those is if I deinstall without the internet working : do I lose that activation, since the de-activation is made through a program in the launch interface???

 

If you look through the faq on Starwars's link it appears there are other methods for de-authenticating, just to be sure that something like that doesn't happen.

Which is really just common sense, so it shouldn't be surprising, but since we're talking about DRM...

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Sounds as reasonable as activations can get.

 

-> 5 activations, you can get them back

-> no limit on number of computers to install in

-> you can deactivate anytime, even if your computer crashes, so you will never lose an activation

-> later an official patch will get rid of this scheme to ensure longevity

-> you can activate even if your game PC doesn't have internet access

 

I mean, that covers pretty much everything. The only downside is minor annoyance.

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I think I said it already, but the limited number of activations doesn't bother me for a solo game like Alpha Protocol. My main problem with those is if I deinstall without the internet working : do I lose that activation, since the de-activation is made through a program in the launch interface???

 

The FAQ mentions that you don't need access to the computer the program was installed on in order to revoke an activation. Say the HDD goes bad and you need to replace it, you can either ignore the used activation until you need it, or you should be able to revoke the activation through their website.

 

Honestly, this sounds like one of the better methods lately, just for the simple fact that you don't need to have access to the system in question in order to revoke the activation. It looks like they've put a little more thought into it than just "You have 5 activations, go buy another copy if you need more. (You filthy, filthy pirate...)"

 

Personally, I'd prefer if they'd go the route that EA took with Bad Company 2. When you install that game, you get a choice between requiring the disk in the drive with no limited installs or online authentication with a 10 install limit.

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