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[Bos_hybrid]

Red Faction: Armageddon trailer

 

That looks disappointing to me, which is unfortunate, I enjoyed RF:G.

[Hell Kitty]

I never played a game with health kits and said, "Man this game would be so much better if the game was automatically giving me free health every second whenever I needed it!"

 

That makes sense, because that would be a pretty dumb thing to think.

 

I've never played a game that automatically gave me free health every second whenever I needed it. Have you even played any game that has regenerating health? Because regenerating health isn't the god mode you seem to think it is.

 

Health is never "free". While health is no longer a limited resource in games with regeneration, losing it means giving up the advantage, needing to retreat and heal, giving your enemies the upper hand. This can be true in games that use health kits/stations as well, where I need to run away from any enemy and run over a kit that automatically fills my health bar, but contrary to popular opinion* in games with regenerating health your health does not regenerate while you are being damaged. Funnily enough, this isn't true of games that use health kits. In Deus Ex I can use health kits from the quick slots or from the paused status screen and heal myself even when taking damage.

 

*By popular opinion I mean whiny anti-regen crybabies.

[Oner]

But Free Health is ripping the spine that is Immersion out and breaks it in two.

[Monte Carlo]

I don't want to rain on the parade with regards to Deus Ex 3, but looking at those screenies all I see is the Crysis body armour, pumped-up FPS supa-weapons and spider-bots. Just like every other quasi, near-future FPS game.

 

I'm sure it'll be OK, but isn't it time for a bit of an aesthetic shift in games?

[Nepenthe]

But Free Health is ripping the spine that is Immersion out and breaks it in two.

 

So finding little boxes with red crosses on them that magically instantly patch you to full health is more immersive?

 

 

I don't want to rain on the parade with regards to Deus Ex 3, but looking at those screenies all I see is the Crysis body armour, pumped-up FPS supa-weapons and spider-bots. Just like every other quasi, near-future FPS game.

 

I'm sure it'll be OK, but isn't it time for a bit of an aesthetic shift in games?

 

Probably what you'd see in screens of Deus Ex 1, as well? It's as a Deus Ex game is supposed to look!

[Oner]

But Free Health is ripping the spine that is Immersion out and breaks it in two.

So finding little boxes with red crosses on them that magically instantly patch you to full health is more immersive?

 

Looks that way. They also support exploration (aka padding and backtracking looking for a small corridor that's only purpose in life is to contain a CLIPmagazine and a medkit).

[Malcador]

I've yet to find a game where waiting for my health to regen hampered me in any way. In Vegas 2, was pretty common to run out, get a burst of fire and almost die, cover and heal, while I killed the foe. Regenerating health does work in the DX setting, augmented human and all. When you're just some schmuck special forces guy, eh not so much.

 

In any event, Eidos claims (heh, right) that the health regen in the game will take a good bit of time to kick in.

[mrmud]

More than anything, regenerating health makes it much, much easier to design and balance levels. If you know that at start of each encounter that the player will be at max life, it means that it becomes much easier to balance that encounter.

[Oner]

More than anything, regenerating health makes it much, much easier to design and balance levels. If you know that at start of each encounter that the player will be at max life, it means that it becomes much easier to balance that encounter.

And that ruins the C&C of acting stupid and engage the next room of enemies with low HP.

Also, hand holding.

 

 

 

In unrelated news, some people are making a graphical remake of Outcast and apparently a tech demo has been released. http://www.openoutcast.org/wp/

Edited June 5, 2010 by Oner

[Serrano]

So finding little boxes with red crosses on them that magically instantly patch you to full health is more immersive?

 

I think it's the tension that comes with putting yourself in a bad situation and having to find a way out of that, that people are really after. Regenerating health makes games a lot less frustrating but you lose some of the highs along with the lows.

Edited June 5, 2010 by Serrano

[Slowtrain]

but isn't it time for a bit of an aesthetic shift in games?

 

 

Yep.

 

Sadly, you, me, and a handful of cranky old gits don't count for much.

[Orogun01]

but isn't it time for a bit of an aesthetic shift in games?

 

 

Yep.

 

Sadly, you, me, and a handful of cranky old gits don't count for much.

I think it's more of a change in the dynamics of developing than in the demand. Let's face it gamers will eat whatever shiny new crap comes next (I mean this with utmost respect possible) So there is not much need for change on part of the publisher and is easier for them to get on the wagon with a tried concept. In this matter a shift on perspective will do more good than anything.

[Nightshape]

Red Faction: Armageddon trailer

 

That looks disappointing to me, which is unfortunate, I enjoyed RF:G.

 

Yeah, throwing aliens into the mix... Not so bad if you start out with it, but to do it now... Thats just a bit odd, like a big flag saying "We're out of idea's"

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Macs are still having issues with Source games.

[Mamoulian War]

Macs are still having issues with Source games.

 

Because human eyes are able to see that 20FPS difference... RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT....

 

all i see is Mac bashing... some people just can't get over the fact, that Mac owners are finaly able to play some small number of games...

 

and no i never had and never will have Mac...

[WorstUsernameEver]

Macs are still having issues with Source games.

 

Because human eyes are able to see that 20FPS difference... RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT....

 

Actually they can.

Also that's not really the point. I also don't think they want to bash anyone, and if I had to find a target for some perceived bashing, it would be Valve, for not being capable of a perfect port.

Still, it seems like the performance differences are not as big as some other ports, so all in all, I'd still be pretty happy to be a Mac owner who plays with Steam (since I doubt that someone would buy a Mac for games, so the rapidly extending library is more like icing on the cake).

[Mamoulian War]

Macs are still having issues with Source games.

 

Because human eyes are able to see that 20FPS difference... RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT....

 

Actually they can.

Also that's not really the point. I also don't think they want to bash anyone, and if I had to find a target for some perceived bashing, it would be Valve, for not being capable of a perfect port.

Still, it seems like the performance differences are not as big as some other ports, so all in all, I'd still be pretty happy to be a Mac owner who plays with Steam (since I doubt that someone would buy a Mac for games, so the rapidly extending library is more like icing on the cake).

 

Movies are presented in cinemas about 25FPS (cant remeber the exact number right now) And humans do not notice any hickups... So 60 or 90 FPS is for humans the same as 25 FPS... the only difference in games, in this FPS difference is, that the mouse is better responsive and has better performance with higher FPS...

[Slowtrain]

I never played a game with health kits and said, "Man this game would be so much better if the game was automatically giving me free health every second whenever I needed it!"

 

That makes sense, because that would be a pretty dumb thing to think.

 

I've never played a game that automatically gave me free health every second whenever I needed it. Have you even played any game that has regenerating health? Because regenerating health isn't the god mode you seem to think it is.

 

Health is never "free". While health is no longer a limited resource in games with regeneration, losing it means giving up the advantage, needing to retreat and heal, giving your enemies the upper hand. This can be true in games that use health kits/stations as well, where I need to run away from any enemy and run over a kit that automatically fills my health bar, but contrary to popular opinion* in games with regenerating health your health does not regenerate while you are being damaged. Funnily enough, this isn't true of games that use health kits. In Deus Ex I can use health kits from the quick slots or from the paused status screen and heal myself even when taking damage.

 

*By popular opinion I mean whiny anti-regen crybabies.

 

 

Sorry.

 

I misssed this.

 

Games that give you health while you stand around doign nothing is free health. Spit hairs of the definition of the word "free" if you want, regardless, the game is rewarding you for doing nothing.

 

WHat's next? An rpg that gives you XP for just standing around? You know, just in case the gamer is having difficulty. Wouldn't want them to get stuck or anything, after all. SO we'll just give them regenerating XP sp they can level up again and get on with the game. I mean, why not. It saves them the effort of actually having to go out in the gameworld and you know, do things.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Because human eyes are able to see that 20FPS difference... RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT....

 

I guess you skipped the part where the actual quality was lesser as well; the "foggy" effect. Still, this is really Valve's fault, they had the exact same issues in the Portal release yet didn't bother to fix it for the Half Life 2 series.

[Oner]

Sorry.

 

I misssed this.

 

Games that give you health while you stand around doign nothing is free health. Spit hairs of the definition of the word "free" if you want, regardless, the game is rewarding you for doing nothing.

 

WHat's next? An rpg that gives you XP for just standing around? You know, just in case the gamer is having difficulty. Wouldn't want them to get stuck or anything, after all. SO we'll just give them regenerating XP sp they can level up again and get on with the game. I mean, why not. It saves them the effort of actually having to go out in the gameworld and you know, do things.

Yeah it's totally not like you have to, y'know, keep yourself alive with barely any hp while the enemy flanks and gangs up on you.

Also, dumb parallel.

[Nepenthe]

Macs are still having issues with Source games.

 

Because human eyes are able to see that 20FPS difference... RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT....

 

Actually they can.

Also that's not really the point. I also don't think they want to bash anyone, and if I had to find a target for some perceived bashing, it would be Valve, for not being capable of a perfect port.

Still, it seems like the performance differences are not as big as some other ports, so all in all, I'd still be pretty happy to be a Mac owner who plays with Steam (since I doubt that someone would buy a Mac for games, so the rapidly extending library is more like icing on the cake).

 

Movies are presented in cinemas about 25FPS (cant remeber the exact number right now) And humans do not notice any hickups... So 60 or 90 FPS is for humans the same as 25 FPS... the only difference in games, in this FPS difference is, that the mouse is better responsive and has better performance with higher FPS...

 

Movies are 24fps. It's not that straightforward, though, sometimes you see jerkiness in pans etc., but most of us are so used to it we don't pay it any attention. Generally you'd be able to tell the difference between 24fps and 60fps material (the first seams "dreamier", the second more "realistic").

[Mamoulian War]

I believe yes, that 24 and 60 FPS you could tell the difference, if you have healthy brain and healthy brain, but i realy do not believe that 60 and 80FPS difference could be spotted by general population, without exceptional neural/brain activities...

Edited June 7, 2010 by Mamoulian War

[Amentep]

I never played a game with health kits and said, "Man this game would be so much better if the game was automatically giving me free health every second whenever I needed it!"

 

That makes sense, because that would be a pretty dumb thing to think.

 

I've never played a game that automatically gave me free health every second whenever I needed it. Have you even played any game that has regenerating health? Because regenerating health isn't the god mode you seem to think it is.

 

Health is never "free". While health is no longer a limited resource in games with regeneration, losing it means giving up the advantage, needing to retreat and heal, giving your enemies the upper hand. This can be true in games that use health kits/stations as well, where I need to run away from any enemy and run over a kit that automatically fills my health bar, but contrary to popular opinion* in games with regenerating health your health does not regenerate while you are being damaged. Funnily enough, this isn't true of games that use health kits. In Deus Ex I can use health kits from the quick slots or from the paused status screen and heal myself even when taking damage.

 

*By popular opinion I mean whiny anti-regen crybabies.

 

 

Sorry.

 

I misssed this. >_

 

Games that give you health while you stand around doign nothing is free health. Spit hairs of the definition of the word "free" if you want, regardless, the game is rewarding you for doing nothing.

 

WHat's next? An rpg that gives you XP for just standing around? You know, just in case the gamer is having difficulty. Wouldn't want them to get stuck or anything, after all. SO we'll just give them regenerating XP sp they can level up again and get on with the game. I mean, why not. It saves them the effort of actually having to go out in the gameworld and you know, do things.

 

I'm sorry but your argument doesn't make any sense.

 

How is having to retreat and stand around for your health to regenerate inferior to having to travel all the way out of a dungeon and back to town to buy health supplies? Essentially both of them are time sinks; both characters have the risk of running into enemies before they've fixed their health. Sure you could choose to go on and keep progressing in the hopes that you find a health kit, but you can also do the same with health regen and just hope that you regen more health than you lose in subsequent fights.

 

Seems to me the only difference is whether you get to push a shiny button to heal yourself or not.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Personally, what I don't like with Deus Ex regenerating health is this essentially: no locational damage.

Or at least, they justified no locational damage with 'you can't do that with regen health'.

[Oner]

DX 1 did it.