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Oh yes, the "dark fantasy theme" that Bioware was pimping throughout DA's development. There isn't really anything like that in the actual game. Seems to me quite ordinary fantasy, but well done ordinary fantasy mind you.

 

From the little I remember, BG2 had darker themes.

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BG2 had darker themes.

This

 

bio didn't want the da themes to be too dark. shoulda' seen some o' the feedback on the bio boards... would explain why the developers felt as if they could not push limits. also, keep in mind the biowarian pov... and that they were going for dark AND mature. sure, bg2 had rape and murdered children and a serial killer who watched silence o' the lambs far too many times for his own good, but there were almost always right v. wrong and good v. evil resolutions for the bg2 protagonist. with da, bioware were genuine attempting more moral ambiguity... but not too much moral ambiguity.

 

_____, but not too _______

 

dark, but not too dark.

 

mature, but not too mature.

 

good, but not too good.

 

*shrug*

 

bio approach is very successful, but it will always leaves people at least marginal unsatisfied. if you attempts to please everybody, you cannot possibly hopes to complete satisfy anybody. after all, the Average Gamer doesn't actually exist. hardcore gamers? forget it, 'cause you is further away from the Average Gamer than is most bio fans.

 

now don't get us wrong, we liked da very much and am looking forward to the sequels, but we has a hard time believing bio when they claims to be attempting innovation in gameplay or storytelling, 'cause innovation is far too risky for any developer so obviously dedicated to pleasing the Average Gamer.

 

HA! Good Fun!


"Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."--Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

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martin were mentioned often, though not for reasons you identify. lovecraft and howard got some love... and maybe moor****. so too were mentioned firefly and battlestar galactica tv... more bsg than firefly. some graphic novels got mention too, though to a lesser degree.

 

violence is indeed part o' what the biowarians saw as dark & mature, but so is anti-heroes and no-win scenarios. "everyone is a bastard" is a rather childish description, but if it makes you feel better to identify martin characters as such, go for it. martin has some clear goodie/non-bastard characters, but he is willing to kill 'em off w/o much hesitation, and many characters that seems initial evil or bad is developed so that they is seen as flawed and corrupt more than Evil. "the principal characters going through hell," is more boo childishness, but is not complete inaccurate. dark typically has bad stuff happening to good people. being heroic does not guarantee happily-ever-after or a glorious and meaningful death. moral ambiguity in martin and bsg were often identified as part o' the Dark and Mature that the biowarians were aiming for in da.

 

Note: I read only "A game of thrones", about half a decade ago so I was just conveying what little I remember about the book (fragments really). It wasn't a definitive opinion of any sort.

 

Anyway I don't see a significant influence from any of the things you mentioned in DA (except Moor****s works which I'm not familiar with).


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Imperium Thought for the Day: Even a man who has nothing can still offer his life

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"From the little I remember, BG2 had darker themes."

 

Silly talk not based in fact. Then again, the argument of what constitutes 'dark' is silly to begin with. Just klook at some of the example sgiven here by people in this very thread of what they consider 'dark'. L0LZ

 

Hilarious stuff, indeed.


DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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"From the little I remember, BG2 had darker themes."

 

Silly talk not based in fact. Then again, the argument of what constitutes 'dark' is silly to begin with. Just klook at some of the example sgiven here by people in this very thread of what they consider 'dark'. L0LZ

 

Hilarious stuff, indeed.

Put your money where your mouth is and not just your foot. We need examples!


I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

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WUT? No you demanding money from me? Toop bad for you, you ain't seeing a penny of my money.

 

Want examples? play the games.

 

Want examples? Read this thread or ehck any thread where 'dark' comes up.


DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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So ends another strong, substantiated argument.


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Imperium Thought for the Day: Even a man who has nothing can still offer his life

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WUT? No you demanding money from me? Toop bad for you, you ain't seeing a penny of my money.

 

Want examples? play the games.

 

Want examples? Read this thread or ehck any thread where 'dark' comes up.

Read the thread:

complete-blog-something-darkside-co.jpg

 

I mean what would you think, a "dark" game is?


I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

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Vampire Bloodlines?

 

Although that's based on World of Darkness stuff.. (yes, I played various WoD pen n paper and actually enjoyed some of it) although when you step back, for all the "dark and angsty and gothic" elements, nearly every WoD game line was a metaphor for adolescence...

 

"Oh look, something's changed you from the "innocent" you were, and now you've found out the world isn't the place you thought it was.. " :)

 

Gamewise.. Dark doesn't automatically mean "bloody with some sex thrown in, and a bit of rough language"

- but a lot of computer game designers seem to think that way..


"Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."

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Anyways, on to actual DA stuff. I've got to say this. The PC version is horrible. I cna't believe I was planning to give away my 360 version when I bought my PC version as now it's the other wya round. i simply can't stand the PC version. From the mega slow load times (akin to ME2 360), the absolutely retarded way they handle the codex entries, the easy combat compared to to the 360 on th same difficulty level, etc., etc.

 

Hope my brother enjoys his free PC version as I'm back to the awesome 360m version.

 

 

P.S. "I mean what would you think, a "dark" game is?"

 

My opinion of 'dark' is as meaningless as everybody except to me. The moment I gave an example of what I think 'dark' is no doubt 1 billion people will post their meaningless opinion of 'dark'.

 

Like almost any game, DA has its moments of 'dakr', and its moments of 'kinda dark', and its moments of 'happy happy joy joy'.

 

*shrug*

 

 

Hell with it, I'll justy post some DA examples of 'dark'.

 

 

1. The choice of killing a child possessed by a demon to save others.

 

2. Having to choose which is the 'better' king: a power hungry murderous brocide commiting family betrayer or a more 'goodly' person who is a bigot and a weak ruler.

 

3. Making the chocie to either have sex to save yourself and possibly having that blow up in your face or sacrificng yourself or worse sacrificing someone else

 

4. Siding with a betrayer of the GW annilahting one of your closest allies to the popint he leaves.

 

5. Broodmothers

 

6. Howes' betrayal of his 'friend'.

 

7. Various origins by and large can be considered 'dark'. &cough* dwarf and elf commoner ones*


DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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The problem is people don't know what dark is. The term dark seems subjective, but to some extent we can see different degrees. An example is Hitler compared to the care bears. For most people in the US, we live a very sheltered life, and we are soft because of it. There is nothing wrong with this however for someone who is generally a nice person, and has never really suffered and seen real suffering it is unreasonable to expect them to know how dark a person can be. To anyone who thinks that the story and themes of da are dark, i simply ask you never read anything written by Dostoevsky, because you will kill yourself.

 

As far as the gaming industry is concerned games which are truly dark are harder to sell to the masses. So expecting a mainstream product to be dark is a bit much. Something truly dark, has yet to be created however there seem to be some progress with games like the Witcher, which is one of my favorite games. Though the whole game your pitted with decisions which are messed up situations with either choice. This is essence of a "dark" game. Forget the concept of good and bad, a "dark" game should have more then this.

 

Think of ME1 where you have to leave someone on Virmire, there is no right or wrong, no good or bad, it just is. I believe these types of decisions are essential to a "dark" game. Decisions which leave you for at least a moment thinking "was this is the right choice" are essential. The concept of good and bad have been done for some time, and the old concept from DnD of aliment, lawful good or chaotic evil, are just to simple to describe the human condition, selfish decisions can be the best for all parties.

 

Just because da isnt dark doesnt mean its a bad game. I thought it was ok, but had some serious issues none of which i feel like getting into. This is not to say it doesnt have some dark parts but as a whole it is not.

 

As it was said in an earlier post you really need a few pieces to make a truly dark game, environment, story, and so forth.

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"From the little I remember, BG2 had darker themes."

 

Silly talk not based in fact. Then again, the argument of what constitutes 'dark' is silly to begin with. Just klook at some of the example sgiven here by people in this very thread of what they consider 'dark'. L0LZ

 

Hilarious stuff, indeed.

Put your money where your mouth is and not just your foot. We need examples!

I appreciate what you're doing, but you really shouldn't feed the local troll.

 

I think a good example of "dark" would be KotOR 2. Not necessarily a world where every single being is miserable, but where it's a bit more mature, or at least less black and white about certain choices.


"Alright, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade - make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager. Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons. Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons. I'm going to to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!"

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KOTOR2 (like all of these games we talk about) is no more dark than your typical RPG. 8shrug* There is nothing inherently darker in KOTOR2 than there is in KOTOR1 for example.

 

"I appreciate what you're doing, but you really shouldn't feed the local troll."

 

Don't belittle yourself like that.

Edited by Volourn

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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KOTOR 2 feels more dark for the desperate-ness you can find in some of the characters, that is lacking in the first one. The methods of Revan to turn Jedi into Sith were also quite horrible. There is also the issue of the main SIth in the game. Usually, they are conquerors with mad light saber/Force skills, they are amongst the smartest characters of the story, and they just breath "impressive". Not so much for Sion and Nihilus. Those two brought the thirst of power of the Sith to extremes than no other Sith would be willing to reach because they are just too costly. Sion is just a broken corpse living in total agony, kept alive only by the power he takes from his pain, and whose only objective is to destroy things, not even trying to rule. Nihilus is even worse : his power is unprecedented, but his hunger for the Force sensitives is the only thing that drives him, to the point that he is controlled by it. Those Sith aren't "cool" like Revan, Malak or Vader are. They are more pathetic than anything.

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"From the little I remember, BG2 had darker themes."

 

Silly talk not based in fact. Then again, the argument of what constitutes 'dark' is silly to begin with. Just klook at some of the example sgiven here by people in this very thread of what they consider 'dark'. L0LZ

 

Hilarious stuff, indeed.

Put your money where your mouth is and not just your foot. We need examples!

I appreciate what you're doing, but you really shouldn't feed the local troll.

 

I think a good example of "dark" would be KotOR 2. Not necessarily a world where every single being is miserable, but where it's a bit more mature, or at least less black and white about certain choices.

Kotor 2 was more of a metaphysical exploration of the Force than actually evil "dark". Kreia acted as your foil no matter what side you were on and offered a balanced perspective.

Still it is a valid point there was some touch of dark in that game, certainly the mood was darker than the first game.


I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

village_idiot.gif

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Patch

 

* Various changes have been made to code and resources to support the Dragon Age: Origins - Awakening expansion pack. Most of these changes do not affect Origins itself.

 

* Some players were experiencing increasingly long load times. A major cause of this problem has been fixed.

 

* At higher levels, non-player characters now receive a bonus to armor penetration. This mitigates an unintentional imbalance with well-armored high-level characters, since armor penetration previously did not scale as aggressively as armor itself did.

 

* Elite-rank enemies (lieutenants) can no longer be shattered. This preserves the intended tactical design of many combat encounters.

 

* Portraits for summoned creatures (like a ranger's wolf) were displaying improperly while in the party camp. This no longer occurs.


"When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon.

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Patch

 

* Various changes have been made to code and resources to support the Dragon Age: Origins - Awakening expansion pack. Most of these changes do not affect Origins itself.

 

* Some players were experiencing increasingly long load times. A major cause of this problem has been fixed.

 

* At higher levels, non-player characters now receive a bonus to armor penetration. This mitigates an unintentional imbalance with well-armored high-level characters, since armor penetration previously did not scale as aggressively as armor itself did.

 

* Elite-rank enemies (lieutenants) can no longer be shattered. This preserves the intended tactical design of many combat encounters.

 

* Portraits for summoned creatures (like a ranger's wolf) were displaying improperly while in the party camp. This no longer occurs.

Ahh, Maria. As always keeping our vices feed and our hopes crushed.


I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

village_idiot.gif

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Possible hint of Dragon Age sequal or expansion coming out 02.01.2011 - link


"When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon.

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I can see an expansion by then, but a sequel would be really really quick turnover if it comes out about a year after Awakening.


DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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Interesting news, but it's not as though games have never been delayed before >_<


I took this job because I thought you were just a legend. Just a story. A story to scare little kids. But you're the real deal. The demon who dares to challenge God.

So what the hell do you want? Don't seem to me like you're out to make this stinkin' world a better place. Why you gotta kill all my men? Why you gotta kill me?

Nothing personal. It's just revenge.

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Thread getting a bit long. Continued here

 

:sweat:


“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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