An interesting article about piracy

[alanschu]

Second hand sales haven't killed them in the past, not sure why it's bemoan-worthy now. Was funny to see second hand game purchasers get lumped in with pirates as 'scum' on another site, hehe.

 

I think the big thing is that the cost of game development was less of an issue in the past.

[Oner]

Second hand sales haven't killed them in the past, not sure why it's bemoan-worthy now. Was funny to see second hand game purchasers get lumped in with pirates as 'scum' on another site, hehe.

I think the big thing is that the cost of game development was less of an issue in the past.

Sales were also a fraction of the current ones.

[Malcador]

Not convinced, but the industry will have to have a boogeyman, heh. Will have to actually find some figures that state their 'loss' on those though.

[alanschu]

Second hand sales haven't killed them in the past, not sure why it's bemoan-worthy now. Was funny to see second hand game purchasers get lumped in with pirates as 'scum' on another site, hehe.

I think the big thing is that the cost of game development was less of an issue in the past.

Sales were also a fraction of the current ones.

 

 

That is true. I don't think that sales have scaled well enough for the cost of development though, outside of the big sellers (just my opinion). Long gone are the days of Sid Meier sitting at a computer and being the only programmer and designer on a game.

 

The computer industry itself is still pretty young. When my Dad opened up his office in the early 90s, he used to be able to make 100% markup on every computer sold. Now it's not even worth his time to sell computers because the markup is so low and he is too small scale. Given the cost of games has remained static (and hence, gotten cheaper when adjusted for inflation), I'd expect that the markup cost for games has gone down too. Obviously they have made up for this in terms of volume, but it also means if you don't have the volume things are certainly less good for your bottom line.

 

 

It's a bit of a scapegoat, but no doubt it's becoming more difficult to turn profits (and we all know everyone here is hoping that companies don't all become like Activision), so companies are looking to combat that from as many angles as possible. At least, that's the way it looks to me.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Yes, good for the customer, bad for the developer.

 

We certainly want Josh & Co getting some potatoes on their plate?

The woes of a free market economy.

 

Adapt, survive, thrive.

 

That is what EA has done with Shale and Cerebus Network DLCs. Free for first time buyers but it costs $15 if you buy the game used and the code has already been registered. That sort of set up can work quite well. They have adapted to second hands sales and hopefully they will thrive.

Edited February 10, 2010 by Killian Kalthorne

[213374U]

I can live with that. But they really need to work on those armors to make it worth the extra $.

[Killian Kalthorne]

No doubt. First the helmet needs to come off and secondly, make them available to your squad.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Besides, it's illegal to have several Steam accounts. If Valve gets wind of it, they might block you or something.

 

It is? That's odd as Valve often recommends people who have a VAC2 Ban to open a second account for their new purchases.

[Zoraptor]

It isn't illegal. It's against the EULA to sell an account though, for what that's worth.

[Mamoulian War]

It isn't illegal. It's against the EULA to sell an account though, for what that's worth.

 

And according to law of most of the countries EULA has the law value about the same like toilet paper if you cannot read it before you unpack the good... so if you are buying boxed Steam Only games, you are safe to sell your account with them, if they ban you, just file class action lawsuit against them, you gonna win it If you are buying digitaly, it is another case, because most of the time before you purchase any digital download you have to read EULA before you pay for the game... That still does not mean that in some countries are basicaly EULAs, which are not in match with local country customer protection laws, not illegal...

[Sargoth]

had a little pirate laugh when the music industry failed to force Norway's biggest net distributer to close off piratebay from its customers. But that might change when they force upon us new laws.

 

I'm sorry but when it comes to my freedom of choice, I'd rather let piracy flourish then let the corporation rule the world.

[neckthrough]

I'm sorry but when it comes to my freedom of choice, I'd rather let piracy flourish then let the corporation rule the world.

There's a continuous tradeoff space between a "safe" Orwellian big-brother society and a complete anarchy. The trouble is that everyone's comfortable sweet spot is at a different point in this range. Still, there can be some convergence on this issue. The bigger problem is that much of the common public isn't realizing how big a role modern corporations are playing in pushing our governments towards an Orwellian world.

[Zoraptor]

It isn't illegal. It's against the EULA to sell an account though, for what that's worth.

 

And according to law of most of the countries EULA has the law value about the same like toilet paper if you cannot read it before you unpack the good

It's specifically aimed at the US, to circumvent First Sale Doctrine (which guarantees the right to sell goods second hand) by making it so that you don't sell the good, but the account. One valve can stop, the other it is illegal for them to do.

[Calax]

He made a few good points, but I think that the comments were more interesting than the article itself. Honestly, the companies are loosing a MASSIVE amount of money to gamestop because of the used system there. For 10 bucks cheaper you get the same game, and you get a return on it if you don't like it. Except that you aren't helping the producers of the game, all that money goes straight to Gamestop (which is why they have such a large profit margin, and order us to push the used versions, they literally make money hand over fist with that stuff).

[213374U]

For 10 bucks cheaper you get the same game, and you get a return on it if you don't like it. Except that you aren't helping the producers of the game, all that money goes straight to Gamestop (which is why they have such a large profit margin, and order us to push the used versions, they literally make money hand over fist with that stuff).

Gee, I wonder why people would feel inclined to resell a game. I mean, it couldn't possibly be because it's an overpriced piece of ****, right?

 

I'm not saying that the producers of crap games should go under, but... wait, scratch that. That's exactly what I'm saying. Want to reduce second hand sales? Increase the game's replayability value so people will not want to resell it.

[Oner]

I'm not saying that the producers of crap games should go under, but... wait, scratch that. That's exactly what I'm saying. Want to reduce second hand sales? Increase the game's replayability value so people will not want to resell it.

Replaying hinges on the fun factor, not the replayablity-o-meter.

[Calax]

For 10 bucks cheaper you get the same game, and you get a return on it if you don't like it. Except that you aren't helping the producers of the game, all that money goes straight to Gamestop (which is why they have such a large profit margin, and order us to push the used versions, they literally make money hand over fist with that stuff).

Gee, I wonder why people would feel inclined to resell a game. I mean, it couldn't possibly be because it's an overpriced piece of ****, right?

 

I'm not saying that the producers of crap games should go under, but... wait, scratch that. That's exactly what I'm saying. Want to reduce second hand sales? Increase the game's replayability value so people will not want to resell it.

Well, sometimes they resell so that they could buy the next one coming up.

[213374U]

Replaying hinges on the fun factor, not the replayablity-o-meter.

Huh? A game can be great fun the first time around, but once you beat it, replaying it is pointless. Great "fun factor" the first time around, close to zero afterwards.

 

Fun factor? What unit is that measured in, Pythons? Or is it a dimensional coefficient without units? Replayability-o-meter?

 

Jeez, did they make Angry Gaming Aficionado a bachelor's while I wasn't looking?

 

 

Well, sometimes they resell so that they could buy the next one coming up.

Sure. So... invest more in gameplay and less in churning out full-price sequels like there's no tomorrow. Simple, no?

 

Oh wait... it's nowhere near as profitable. Why settle for selling just one when you can sell three???

[Mamoulian War]

For 10 bucks cheaper you get the same game, and you get a return on it if you don't like it. Except that you aren't helping the producers of the game, all that money goes straight to Gamestop (which is why they have such a large profit margin, and order us to push the used versions, they literally make money hand over fist with that stuff).

Gee, I wonder why people would feel inclined to resell a game. I mean, it couldn't possibly be because it's an overpriced piece of ****, right?

 

I'm not saying that the producers of crap games should go under, but... wait, scratch that. That's exactly what I'm saying. Want to reduce second hand sales? Increase the game's replayability value so people will not want to resell it.

Well, sometimes they resell so that they could buy the next one coming up.

You know that in this case, people who can't resell just buy less games, right? Killing second hand sales means less new game sales, because people with lower budget will just not conjure more cash out of the air to buy same amount of games without possibility to resell...

[Oner]

Huh? A game can be great fun the first time around, but once you beat it, replaying it is pointless. Great "fun factor" the first time around, close to zero afterwards.

 

Fun factor? What unit is that measured in, Pythons? Or is it a dimensional coefficient without units? Replayability-o-meter?

 

Jeez, did they make Angry Gaming Aficionado a bachelor's while I wasn't looking?

Painkiller, Serious Sam, Doom, Hl 2 Ep 2 etc. Great fun, 0 replay value.

Except wait... if I had fun with it, then I'll have fun playing it again! WHOA DUDE!

 

(Trying to) Replay(ing) something that has great RVbut is boring me to tears makes a lot less sense.

[Tigranes]

Painkiller, Serious Sam, Doom, Hl 2 Ep 2 etc. Great fun, 0 replay value.

Except wait... if I had fun with it, then I'll have fun playing it again! WHOA DUDE!

 

Contradiction WHOA DUDE

[Oner]

Painkiller, Serious Sam, Doom, Hl 2 Ep 2 etc. Great fun, 0 replay value.

Except wait... if I had fun with it, then I'll have fun playing it again! WHOA DUDE!

 

Contradiction WHOA DUDE

No, not really.

Tho yea, I forgot about the card hunting in Painkiller.

[Tigranes]

There are games that are really fun but nowhere as fun the second time round. I thought you were arguing against this?

[213374U]

Painkiller, Serious Sam, Doom, Hl 2 Ep 2 etc. Great fun, 0 replay value.

Except wait... if I had fun with it, then I'll have fun playing it again! WHOA DUDE!

 

(Trying to) Replay(ing) something that has great RVbut is boring me to tears makes a lot less sense.

Do you have a point here?

 

So if it isn't fun, how replayable can it really be? Games are only worth (re)playing as long as they are fun, but apparently this isn't as obvious as I thought. These are games we're talking about, not gym routines. Oh wait, the professor says that this isn't really replayability, but "fun factor", a measurable and distinct intrinsic quality. But of course! How could I possibly the subtle yet deep difference in meaning between those two fundamental ontological categories of the object!

[Oner]

There are games that are really fun but nowhere as fun the second time round. I thought you were arguing against this?

I'm arguing that increasing gameplay replayability (multiple endings, party banter, etc) won't make a difference if the game is not fun (imagine ME with only the mineral mining).

 

 

So if it isn't fun, how replayable can it really be? Games are only worth (re)playing as long as they are fun, but apparently this isn't as obvious as I thought.

You're the one who just said games aren't worth replaying twice no matter how fun they are.