Slowtrain Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Have any of Beths crpgs been well-written? No. The closest they came was MW, and then immediately decided that was way too complicated and went into uber-dumb mode for Oblivion. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Have any crpgs been well-written? No. Fixed. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oner Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Have any crpgs been well-written? Yes. Fixed. Fixed. Giveaway list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DgyQFpOJvyNASt8A12ipyV_iwpLXg_yltGG5mffvSwo/edit?usp=sharing What is glass but tortured sand?Never forget! '12.01.13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jero cvmi Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Most of the people who have anything to say about the writing mentioned above, purchased the game (mission accomplished) no matter the nature of the ****tacular writing, I know there are those that stole it as well and bitched too, but they are irrelevant. Hey I rented it, i am entitled to criticism. I finished Fallout a couple months ago for the second time and I wasn't knocked over by the writing. It was functional most of the time and creative on occasion. I'd say it was better than Fallout 3, but there were a few bothersome issues, like a lack of change in NPC reactions when I just did something big. The problem here is this is extremely subjective. For every person that yells "Fallout 3 has the worst writing evar!" you can probably find another who says it is good. All I'm saying is it was functional. It got the job done. It explained the story. Frankly thats all it needed to do for me, because I was really playing to enjoy the sandbox elements, explore the wasteland, and find neat trinkets. It explained a story that made sense within the setting, and was interesting and motivating. It was humorous, and maintained a fitting style. No one sais it's a masterpiece of literature, i'd say it was more like good B-movie level. Which is pretty far off bad B-movie level that was Fallout 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Have any crpgs been well-written? No. Fixed. Bethesda's crpgs fall below the average on a continual basis as far as writing goes. Fallout 3 was a decent recovery after Oblivion though. Otoh, there's a lot more to games than writing, so just because a game has bad writing doesn't mean it's not worth playing. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 (edited) Bethesda's crpgs fall below the average on a continual basis as far as writing goes. Fallout 3 was a decent recovery after Oblivion though. Otoh, there's a lot more to games than writing, so just because a game has bad writing doesn't mean it's not worth playing. Oblivion is a horrible anomaly in Bethesda's history. Then again, notice how similar the main stories of Oblivion & Dragon Age are, for instance? Both involve relative nobodies joining an elite organization and needing to put some secret heir on the throne, all the while fighting dremora/darkspawn (mooks with messed up faces) led by some huge demon. The difference between the two is just the execution. Edited December 8, 2009 by virumor The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastpunk Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Bethesda's crpgs fall below the average on a continual basis as far as writing goes. Fallout 3 was a decent recovery after Oblivion though. Decent, my @ss! Bethesda has got a lot of work to do until they reach decent. Dialogues in FO3 feel like they've been written by a 12 year old kid. "We do not quit playing because we grow old, we grow old because we quit playing." - Oliver Wendell Holmes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 (edited) Oblivion is a horrible anomaly in Bethesda's history. I agree. Although the DLC for FO3 was quite poor in execution as well ( I thought). Quite different from the core game. Bethesda's crpgs fall below the average on a continual basis as far as writing goes. Fallout 3 was a decent recovery after Oblivion though. Decent, my @ss! Bethesda has got a lot of work to do until they reach decent. Dialogues in FO3 feel like they've been written by a 12 year old kid. I don't really disagree. My only point of contention would be that relative to Oblivion, there has been improvement in the writing in FO3. QUite a large amount of improvement, actually, imo. Is that more a testament to the true awfulness of the writing in Oblivion? Probably. But still, improvement is improvement. Edited December 8, 2009 by Slowtrain Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Not all is drab in Oblivion. Thieves guild & Dark Brotherhood were decent in Oblivion. Some of the city quests were too. The either insipid or overblown delivery of the voice actors really drags everything down, though. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Oblivion is a horrible anomaly in Bethesda's history. I agree. Although the DLC for FO3 was quite poor in execution as well ( I thought). Quite different from the core game. Bethesda's crpgs fall below the average on a continual basis as far as writing goes. Fallout 3 was a decent recovery after Oblivion though. Decent, my @ss! Bethesda has got a lot of work to do until they reach decent. Dialogues in FO3 feel like they've been written by a 12 year old kid. I don't really disagree. My only point of contention would be that relative to Oblivion, there has been improvement in the writing in FO3. QUite a large amount of improvement, actually, imo. Is that more a testament to the true awfulness of the writing in Oblivion? Probably. But still, improvement is improvement. I disagree. I read 12-year old kid's writing all the time, and Fallout 3 is much better than theirs. But again, this is all subjective opinions. The writing was functional, it got you from point A to point B. Sure, I would like them to keep improving their writing, I doubt Bethesda is saying to themselves 'our writing is as good as it ever needs to be!' They have already shown a commitment to improving that aspect of their game design. If it isn't improving enough for you, then stop buying their games. I also think the ending would have been fine if they would have let you send your super mutant buddy into the chamber. Just that one change would have salvaged the entire ending for me. It was a dumb decision by the designers. It didn't have anything to do with writing, it was just a bad call. They obviously thought about it, given the mutant had a whole "you need to do this yourself' speech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Not all is drab in Oblivion. Thieves guild & Dark Brotherhood were decent in Oblivion. Some of the city quests were too. The either insipid or overblown delivery of the voice actors really drags everything down, though. Agreed, the voice acting is horrid, and the radiant conversation (or whatever it was called) was lame. That is less bad writing and more bad design. The problem is they tried to create a dynamic world where NPC's had unscripted conversations with each other. It was an ambitious goal, but it was a failure and they should have cut it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhailian Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Not all is drab in Oblivion. Thieves guild & Dark Brotherhood were decent in Oblivion. Some of the city quests were too. The either insipid or overblown delivery of the voice actors really drags everything down, though. Agreed, the voice acting is horrid, and the radiant conversation (or whatever it was called) was lame. That is less bad writing and more bad design. The problem is they tried to create a dynamic world where NPC's had unscripted conversations with each other. It was an ambitious goal, but it was a failure and they should have cut it out. Agreed. One problem I had specifically with the bsoft's philosophy on npc dialogue, is that you are always the center of attention. If I'm a LVL 1 peon with no noteriety because I've never done anything worth noting, the dialogue ought to consistently reflect that. Too often I've gotten the vibe from npcs that they've been patiently waiting their whole lives for little ol' me to come and fix all their problems. On top of that, there should be little to no npc chatter directed towards the player before they've done anything. I think part of this is born out of a desire to actively demonstrate the whole radiant A.I. thing, but really radiant A.I. is just... A.I. But for all of us, there will come a point where it does matter, and it's gonna be like having a miniature suit-head shoving sticks up your butt all the time. - Tigranes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Not all is drab in Oblivion. Thieves guild & Dark Brotherhood were decent in Oblivion. Some of the city quests were too. The either insipid or overblown delivery of the voice actors really drags everything down, though. Agreed, the voice acting is horrid, and the radiant conversation (or whatever it was called) was lame. That is less bad writing and more bad design. The problem is they tried to create a dynamic world where NPC's had unscripted conversations with each other. It was an ambitious goal, but it was a failure and they should have cut it out. Actually, iirc, they cut a lot of the radiant AI at the last moment because they couldn't make it work right. What was left in the game was AI bits that more or less did work. Basically an extremely limited version of what was originally intended. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelverin Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 I disagree. I read 12-year old kid's writing all the time, and Fallout 3 is much better than theirs. My 9 year old nephew played FO3 with no questions asked and was able to understand everything written, when he played FO2 he would not leave me alone asking questions ad nauseam, about quests, what the hell this meant and that meant and he is not the brightest star in the sky to begin with. J1 Visa Southern California Cleaning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jero cvmi Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I disagree. I read 12-year old kid's writing all the time, and Fallout 3 is much better than theirs. My 9 year old nephew played FO3 with no questions asked and was able to understand everything written, when he played FO2 he would not leave me alone asking questions ad nauseam, about quests, what the hell this meant and that meant and he is not the brightest star in the sky to begin with. This made me laugh so hard, that's no way to treat children Kelverin. "-Uncle Kelverin, what's a Kama Sutra Master? -Nothing, nevermind ... -Uncle Kelverin, what's a fluffer? -err.. ... -Uncle Kelverin, what's a ball gag for? -DAWGUNNIT GO BACK TO FALLOUT 3 WILLYOU!!!#&@!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Actually, yeah, what is a fluffer? The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oner Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Actually, yeah, what is a fluffer?18+, you have been warned: **** raiser . Giveaway list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DgyQFpOJvyNASt8A12ipyV_iwpLXg_yltGG5mffvSwo/edit?usp=sharing What is glass but tortured sand?Never forget! '12.01.13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelverin Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I disagree. I read 12-year old kid's writing all the time, and Fallout 3 is much better than theirs. My 9 year old nephew played FO3 with no questions asked and was able to understand everything written, when he played FO2 he would not leave me alone asking questions ad nauseam, about quests, what the hell this meant and that meant and he is not the brightest star in the sky to begin with. This made me laugh so hard, that's no way to treat children Kelverin. "-Uncle Kelverin, what's a Kama Sutra Master? -Nothing, nevermind ... -Uncle Kelverin, what's a fluffer? -err.. ... -Uncle Kelverin, what's a ball gag for? -DAWGUNNIT GO BACK TO FALLOUT 3 WILLYOU!!!#&@!" He was able to understand Virgin of the Wastes because the picture was self explanatory. I did indeed tell him to go play FO3 and leave me alone. As far as the graphic nature I warned his Dad, he did not care so I have no issues. Now my son will not be playing any 17+ game well until he is 17. J1 Visa Southern California Cleaning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lare Kikkeli Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 what the hell is wrong with you? i played the fallouts when i was 13 or 14 and i loved them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syraxis Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Actually, yeah, what is a fluffer?18+, you have been warned: **** raiser . Truly is the worst job ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jero cvmi Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Actually, yeah, what is a fluffer? i bet everyone who doesn't know what a fluffer is, visits the Golden Globes in New Reno during their first playthrough of Fallout 2, and they actually fall for it, ending up with 5 caps, poisoning and a bitter taste in the mouth. i love this game. getting back on topic, will there be fluffers in Fallout:New Vegas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhailian Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Actually, yeah, what is a fluffer? i bet everyone who doesn't know what a fluffer is, visits the Golden Globes in New Reno during their first playthrough of Fallout 2, and they actually fall for it, ending up with 5 caps, poisoning and a bitter taste in the mouth. i love this game. getting back on topic, will there be fluffers in Fallout:New Vegas? Dear Lord, I hope so. It would be a nice nod (or is that head bob? ) to the originals. But for all of us, there will come a point where it does matter, and it's gonna be like having a miniature suit-head shoving sticks up your butt all the time. - Tigranes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelverin Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 what the hell is wrong with you? i played the fallouts when i was 13 or 14 and i loved them. Wrong with me? Talk to your parent (s) ask them what the hell is wrong with them!!!! J1 Visa Southern California Cleaning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinkieGorilla Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 (edited) I don't see how anybody can't recognise how superior FO1/2 writing is over FO3. You can debate about change of perspective, game mechanics, quest design and whatnot, sure - but just look at the writing. I don't think FO1/2 writing was amazing, but it managed to consistently hit the right note and give the right feel for most of the games. You can't find many instances where you think to yourself 'oh that's contrived', 'they're overdoing the swearing' or 'this doesn't seem Fallout-y' (yes, it's possible for FO1 to set the terms on what Fallout-y is and at the same time fail to meet those standards in different parts). And sometimes you have some downright hilarious or memorable, quotable lines. well said, gent, well said. Fallout 3 was like a friend of a friend who got invited to a party where everybody else had known each other for years and tried all night to fit in but always missed the point and tried too hard, thus making him/herself look too obvious and leaving everybody at the party shaking their heads going "Wtf was that all about?" I do think FO2 and FO3 are similar in one way, that they both 'break out' of the universe too often, which is why some people don't much like FO2 either. I think for me the difference was in FO2, most of the time, it was funny; in FO3, dialogue is never funny except by mistake. funny. i agree wholeheartedly and yet there's no way of coming off less than patronizing when saying this to a Bethesda fan. i think (i've seen their boards, trust me) they actually really, really love the corny "we're obviously trying too hard to make a joke" atmosphere of the writing. it's just so far from witty, innovative or creative it blew my mind. i really do have a lot of good to say about the game too...it's just a shame they ****ing blew it, imo. Edited December 9, 2009 by TwinkieGorilla hopw roewur ne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oner Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Do we know who's writing for NV? Giveaway list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DgyQFpOJvyNASt8A12ipyV_iwpLXg_yltGG5mffvSwo/edit?usp=sharing What is glass but tortured sand?Never forget! '12.01.13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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