Aristes Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 I know I'll probably regret posting this, but I'm just kind of confused as to how I feel about this story. On one hand, I think the school has a point in that it's probably disruptive. On the other hand, my sense of personal freedom inclines me to think that the boy should be allowed to dress as he desires as long as he conforms to basic and common sense guidelines, such as not running around the school nude etc. http://news.aol.com/article/georgia-school...scobar%2F707800 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
213374U Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Schooling can't substitute parenting. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Most schools and work placed are allowed to execute a dress policy. It's in the fine print. There are none that are right, only strong of opinion. There are none that are wrong, only ignorant of facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguars4ever Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Schooling can't substitute parenting. Parenting can't substitute military schooling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgon Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 The one deciding factor about drag queens and shemales and such is whether they can pull it off. There is an element of show business and character there. He just can't hack it as a woman, he should be forced out of that dress for his own good. Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 The one deciding factor about drag queens and shemales and such is whether they can pull it off. There is an element of show business and character there. He just can't hack it as a woman, he should be forced out of that dress for his own good. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 There is no bigger advocate on this board for individual liberty than me, but the school is right here. A certain level of decorum is required in the workplace/school and it is certainly incumbent on the party responsible to ensure that it exists. If that means uniforms or dess codes then thats what it means. Once you get out of that enviorment you can dress however you please. If you find that unreasonable there are usually alternatives up to and including dropping out. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsingham Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 I'd be inclined to permit cross-dressing where the standard of dress was consistent with that stipulated for females. It's really a very minor thing compared with the myriad other threats a school faces. "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amentep Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 I'd be inclined to permit cross-dressing where the standard of dress was consistent with that stipulated for females. It's really a very minor thing compared with the myriad other threats a school faces. This is what I'm thinking. I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killian Kalthorne Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 I'd be inclined to permit cross-dressing where the standard of dress was consistent with that stipulated for females. It's really a very minor thing compared with the myriad other threats a school faces. Agreed. "Your Job is not to die for your country, but set a man on fire, and take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 I'd be inclined to permit cross-dressing where the standard of dress was consistent with that stipulated for females. It's really a very minor thing compared with the myriad other threats a school faces. This is what I'm thinking. Agreed. But it is a source of "threat": Groups of kids gathered around him in the cafeteria, and the school's assistant principal even blamed a fight on Escobar's flamboyant attire. which directly plays into: Citing a school dress code that prohibits students from wearing clothing that may "contribute to a disruption of school functions"... "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amentep Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Yes, but the key here is "flamboyant" attire. Based on the video from the local ABC(US) affiliate he was dressed rather conservatively, but they do try to argue that he wasn't on the last day he attended. And having that said, there have been other examples in the local news about crossdressers being allowed to go to school with no problem, so... One must note that Escobar attended the school a grand total of 3 days; was there significantly more attention drawn to him than any other notable transfer? I'm not sure. Would the fervor have died down given time? I think so. There's also no clear evidence in either the AJC article, the AOL article or the ABC footage as to why a conclusion was drawn that he was responsible for fights occurring those days. I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theslug Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 I have to agree with GD. I've actually been in a school where someone cross dressed or at least tried to becuase I think he ended up leaving. It definitely creates an uproar and unneeded madness in the student body. You should follow the rules, which include social norms. I've actually read quite a bit of these stories coming out of the UK but it was mostly how dumb the faculty were in that they wouldn't tell the students anything so when Chris suddenly vanishes without a trace and Christina shows up in his seat the next year, both of whom have a striking resemblance, the kids figure it out and then the kid is tormented. I mean the kid would still get tormented either way but if you at least let them get the first word out instead of kids gossiping and making stuff up, then perhaps there would be an ounce of sympathy, though maybe that's a little unrealistic. Either way its not natural and its not right in school. Do whatever you want on the weekends. There was a time when I questioned the ability for the schizoid to ever experience genuine happiness, at the very least for a prolonged segment of time. I am no closer to finding the answer, however, it has become apparent that contentment is certainly a realizable goal. I find these results to be adequate, if not pleasing. Unfortunately, connection is another subject entirely. When one has sufficiently examined the mind and their emotional constructs, connection can be easily imitated. More data must be gleaned and further collated before a sufficient judgment can be reached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadly_Nightshade Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Groups of kids gathered around him in the cafeteria, and the school's assistant principal even blamed a fight on Escobar's flamboyant attire. That is because of bigotry and hatred, not the dress itself. Unless they are saying that all dresses are evil and cause violence... But, if that's true, then they've got other issues... "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killian Kalthorne Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 (edited) The fight started because those children wanted to fight. They were just looking for an excuse to do it. If it wasn't for that kid they would have found some other poor kid to pick on. That is how bullies work. Edited October 8, 2009 by Killian Kalthorne "Your Job is not to die for your country, but set a man on fire, and take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 You're not Lord of Flies! Total disappointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristes Posted October 8, 2009 Author Share Posted October 8, 2009 I guess one of my problems with it is that girls don't suffer harrassment for dressing like boys. In fact, I seriously doubt there is any such distinction as a girl dressing like a "boy" in school. The other thing is, where do we draw the line? Is wearing pink okay for a boy but wearing a pink blouse is not? A brief case but not a purse? Yeah, I think the kid is probably acting out, although maybe he does enjoy dressing like a "girl" for its own sake. That still doesn't seem to indicate to me that he should not be allowed to do it. Of course, Moose's point about the fine print makes sense. I don't really think the school is bad inasmuchas they're simply trying to do what they think is best for the student body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 "If I can't express myself, I won't go to school," he told the Atlanta Journal Constitution, "I want to get the message out there that because this is who I am, I can't get an education." This is the part that I take issue. I'm a big fan of personal freedom and I really have an issue with the other students not being more accepting, but this student needs to understand that school is about getting an education, not making personal statements. He is very young and will have plenty of years ahead of himself to express himself when he becomes an adult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killian Kalthorne Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Maybe they should adopt school uniforms in which all boys and all girls dress exactly alike. That would make everyone equal. At least in clothing. "Your Job is not to die for your country, but set a man on fire, and take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 The school is in the wrong. School shouldn't just be teaching math but about teaching tolerance, acceptance, and respecting otehrs' choices. The kiddies who fought over this should be the ones punished not the cross dresser. I won't pretend to understand the need to dress like a girl; but it's not a big deal because someone cross dressing does not hurt me. Period. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killian Kalthorne Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 That's not the school's job, Volourn. That is the job of parents. "Your Job is not to die for your country, but set a man on fire, and take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Nope. It's the job of the school. And, it's been proven in courts hence why schools are now required to not segregate students. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killian Kalthorne Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 It is not the school's job to raise kids. "Your Job is not to die for your country, but set a man on fire, and take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calax Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 I donno, I'm divided on this. If they had strict dress codes mandating what is and isn't ok for each gender to wear I'd probably side with the school, but I also have to look at it from another perspective, what if boys were forced to wear skirts to school? Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amentep Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 "If I can't express myself, I won't go to school," he told the Atlanta Journal Constitution, "I want to get the message out there that because this is who I am, I can't get an education." This is the part that I take issue. I'm a big fan of personal freedom and I really have an issue with the other students not being more accepting, but this student needs to understand that school is about getting an education, not making personal statements. He is very young and will have plenty of years ahead of himself to express himself when he becomes an adult. Yeah, the outlay of his options are pretty...one sided, but not that far from general teenage thought in my experience. I donno, I'm divided on this. If they had strict dress codes mandating what is and isn't ok for each gender to wear I'd probably side with the school, but I also have to look at it from another perspective, what if boys were forced to wear skirts to school? There have been some schools that wouldn't let boys wear kilts. Not that that's what you're talking about, its just your mention of skirts made me think of it. I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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