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The Battlestar Galactica Thread


Kaftan Barlast

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I really liked this ending, not so much the whole BSG-becomes-real thing, but the way the tied it together. In these days of Soprano-like anticlimactic bull**** non-endings, it was real refreshing to see something come to a definite and satisfying conclusion.

 

 

I almost cried in the end with Adama on the hilltop :-

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"I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. "

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Well, I didn't like it. Most of the big questions like what's the deal with Starbuck or the Song or the Opera House were answered with a nice big "God did it". Considering the general dark tone of Galactica, the ending was overly happy and sunny. The preachy ending with evil Japanese robots was a real turn-off, there was no need what so ever to tie it back to our Earth.

 

I would have been a lot more happier with leaving things open rather than saying "God did it" and them just living out their lives on the ships or whatever. Kind of like the last episode of Stargate SG1 "Unending".

Edited by Purkake
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I loved it.

 

Every second of it.

 

 

Anyone else realized that Hera dies shortly after arriving to Earth?

 

Yeah, the body that they discover was that of a "young woman". Apparently she still managed to get around if she's the Mitochondrial Eve...

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Holy moly what an ending :-

 

It was as epic as I could have imagined, and then some. Excellent, if bittersweet. I am now depressed that there is no more BSG.

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

 

- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

 

"I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta

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I thought they were going for an Atlantis'ish ending - to give a slight nod at the many myths about a powerful and ancient civilization. I guess they "had" to do it this way, to tie the story with modern history.

 

All in all I really enjoyed the ending, reminded me a bit of Babylon 5 (emotionally anyway) - and I'm a little sad that it's over, but glad that it had a good/proper ending.

 

It's funny how you get invested in these kind of things...

Fortune favors the bald.

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One big Deus Ex Machina that the entire fleet would agree to throw away technology and go native just like that. Didn't sit right with me at all.

 

:- You are one unhappy dude Gorgon! I can't remeber the last positive thing you posted about this show. I can't imagine there would have been any conclusion you would have been happy with.

 

That said I do think it was an odd choice. However, as someone who has made a career out of engineering and optimizing technology I must admit the concept of leaving it all behind does appeal to me on several levels.

 

am gonna admit that our enjoyment of the series waned a few seasons ago.

 

"and they have a plan..."

 

bs. am recalling times back when cylons were scary and mysterious. that ended some time ago. cylons not have some mysterious plan and they really ain't no different than people... which kinda makes 'em less intriguing.

 

dunno. bsg embraced lots o' what we hate 'bout anime. lots o' babe-bots and existential angst. throw in some crappy amnesia explanation for the final 5. add a healthy dose o' deus ex machina. maybe has a character like baltar throw in an explanation or two that everybody instantly accepts for no obvious reason? sure sounds like anime conventions. you know, if starbuck had wielded a katana during the final confrontations/battles, we woulda' had complete anime stoopidity... dress her as a nun, wh0re or miko and we woulda' had perfect anime wackiness to finish off bsg.

 

however, the end, right up to the end, were pretty okie dokie as far as such stuff goes. the big battle stuff looked nifty and we thinks they did an okie dokie job o' wrapping up loose ends without descending ito camp levels o' silliness typical o' sci-fi and fantasy. that being said, the abandon-evil-tech stuff were moronic. get +30,000 tech users to turn their backs on tech? rrriiiigggghhhttt. is easy 'nuff to spout such idealistic nonsense, but am wondering how tough it would be to stand firm when your child or wife or husband gets some easily treatable disease or a seemingly minor infection... tell child/wife/husband that their death is for the greater good.

 

modern man has been 'round for between 140,000 to 170,000 years. for all but the last 100 years or so, women has been largely second-class citizens. sure, there is some cultural exceptions, but not many... and the reason is simple biology. in a culture without reliable birth control, what is you thinking is gonna become the typical role o' women? pre-agrarian and you is complete hopeless of breaking out of role as baby factories and child nurturers. not much of an improvement right up until industrial revolution. if you ever get a chance, takes a look at an old family bible from pre-industrial. children lost at birth and children dying before age o' 5 were common. people not live particularly long in pre-industrial... assume that women between age o' 16 and 36 is gonna spend half their time pregnant and you probable ain't too far off mark. if Gromnir were a female character in bsg, we woulda' put a bullet in apollo's brain for suggesting such a thing as abandoning tech.

 

and btw, am guessing that the explanation o' Dee offing herself were simply that she were weak and /or off her nut. huh?

 

not a bad end in spite o' our loathing o' the actual end o' the end.

 

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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I thought they were going for an Atlantis'ish ending - to give a slight nod at the many myths about a powerful and ancient civilization. I guess they "had" to do it this way, to tie the story with modern history.

 

All in all I really enjoyed the ending, reminded me a bit of Babylon 5 (emotionally anyway) - and I'm a little sad that it's over, but glad that it had a good/proper ending.

 

It's funny how you get invested in these kind of things...

 

Totally :-

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

 

- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

 

"I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta

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and btw, am guessing that the explanation o' Dee offing herself were simply that she were weak and /or off her nut. huh?

 

What makes you think that? She saw no hope for the future so she decided to end her life on a high. I thought they made that pretty obvious on the show.

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Start of old thread

 

End of old thread

 

I am still only up to speed with Season 3 and Razor... I try not to read these threads but it is so damn hard no to :-

 

Edit: An unexpected, amusing side effect of moving posts that are older than my initial post... it now looks like Kaftan is the thread starter. Go Kaftan :-

“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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and btw, am guessing that the explanation o' Dee offing herself were simply that she were weak and /or off her nut. huh?

 

What makes you think that? She saw no hope for the future so she decided to end her life on a high. I thought they made that pretty obvious on the show.

 

how does that contradict the "weak and/or off her nut" observation? seeing 0 hope in such a situation, given all the crap they had already been through, seems weak or nutty to Gromnir. were a damn terrible way to kill her regardless.

 

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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and btw, am guessing that the explanation o' Dee offing herself were simply that she were weak and /or off her nut. huh?

 

What makes you think that? She saw no hope for the future so she decided to end her life on a high. I thought they made that pretty obvious on the show.

 

how does that contradict the "weak and/or off her nut" observation? seeing 0 hope in such a situation, given all the crap they had already been through, seems weak or nutty to Gromnir. were a damn terrible way to kill her regardless.

 

When you said the explanation I though the were referring to an official explanation from the writers. Whether or not you think see was weak depends on what you think about ones decision to end their own life. "She's off her nut" certainly wasn't what they were going for.

 

Anyway, an interview with Ron Moore on the finale.

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""She's off her nut" certainly wasn't what they were going for."

 

am not so sure about that. clearly the writers was going for shock value. shock value is necessarily extreme. reasonableness and plausibility and dramatic value were clear secondary to the "omg" or "wtf" value o' the scene. shocking behavior is much analogous to nutty behavior, no? do something crazy not make you crazy, but clearly Dee's suicide were out o' character with the Dee they had developed over the course o' multiple seasons.

 

btw, Gromnir almost never reads actor/director/writer interviews. with few exceptions they is, at best, disappointing. at worst the "artist" manages to rob us o' what enjoyment we did find in their work.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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bs. am recalling times back when cylons were scary and mysterious. that ended some time ago. cylons not have some mysterious plan and they really ain't no different than people... which kinda makes 'em less intriguing.

I must admit you have a point here. In the end the Cylons were by turns vain, petty, venal, vindictive, and often incapable of acting in their own best interests. Hardly the near all powerful and emotionally detached enemies they were in the beginning. In other words, they were more human than human. I guess the direction they took developing the Cylon characters and the way the whole final five was handled (in my opinion that strained credulity) was the only real flaw in the show. I don't think it was a fatal flaw and I still enjoyed all four seasons immensely. I just think I would have done it differently.

"What can't be changed must be endured"

Robert Jordan

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I was pretty disappointed with the ending and it just generally left a bad taste in my mouth. I obviously have the same complaints as everyone else, Starbuck turning into nothingness, dropping technology, and everything was god or something I don't even know but it was just like not that great. Much like grom I've been dissatisfied by the last couple of seasons and this didn't change anything. It felt like BSG, in a bad way. And the japanese robotic love doll and all that non sense at the end felt out of place and stupid.

 

They could have started a utopia will all that technology. At the base of all war and hatred and stuff is the scarcity of resources. No one would have to starve or die of influenza and they could genetically engineer a race of cat humanoids who do our bidding instead of robots. Stupid robots.

There was a time when I questioned the ability for the schizoid to ever experience genuine happiness, at the very least for a prolonged segment of time. I am no closer to finding the answer, however, it has become apparent that contentment is certainly a realizable goal. I find these results to be adequate, if not pleasing. Unfortunately, connection is another subject entirely. When one has sufficiently examined the mind and their emotional constructs, connection can be easily imitated. More data must be gleaned and further collated before a sufficient judgment can be reached.

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  • 2 weeks later...
bs. am recalling times back when cylons were scary and mysterious. that ended some time ago. cylons not have some mysterious plan and they really ain't no different than people... which kinda makes 'em less intriguing.

I must admit you have a point here. In the end the Cylons were by turns vain, petty, venal, vindictive, and often incapable of acting in their own best interests. Hardly the near all powerful and emotionally detached enemies they were in the beginning. In other words, they were more human than human. I guess the direction they took developing the Cylon characters and the way the whole final five was handled (in my opinion that strained credulity) was the only real flaw in the show. I don't think it was a fatal flaw and I still enjoyed all four seasons immensely. I just think I would have done it differently.

 

I agree with both you guys.

 

Perhaps we'll get a better explaination in BSG: The Plan when it comes out this fall...

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Well, I didn't like it. Most of the big questions like what's the deal with Starbuck or the Song or the Opera House were answered with a nice big "God did it". Considering the general dark tone of Galactica, the ending was overly happy and sunny. The preachy ending with evil Japanese robots was a real turn-off, there was no need what so ever to tie it back to our Earth.

 

I would have been a lot more happier with leaving things open rather than saying "God did it" and them just living out their lives on the ships or whatever. Kind of like the last episode of Stargate SG1 "Unending".

 

If you go to Battlestar Wiki's forum, there are lots of dissatisfaction with the ending as well (despite the fact that the poll indicated that most people are happy with it). The God factor is indeed a big turn off because one of the main appeals of the show is that a lot of ridiculously weird things (i.e. head characters, Starbuck's resurrection, the Music) have occurred and that we 'had' a feeling that it would not be explained by Deux Ex Machina. And so part of the anticipation of the show would be to get a plausible explanation behind all the crazy things.

 

But ultimately, the writers were incapable of wrapping things up without using God as the plot device. Even worse, a lot of elements that were so hyped up turned out to be so... inadequately handled, i.e.:

* The Opera House - What's so special about it? Why are those visions even important?

* Hera - By chance, she turned out to be the Mitochondrial Eve. Her existence was not essential at all

* Final Five - After all five were revealed, things went on as usual. No extra scenes to show how they interact with their children

* Head Characters - OMG they are angels!

* Lords of Kobol - Totally become forgotten

* Starbuck - She is also an angel! OMG!

* The Music - God played it!

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Well, I didn't like it. Most of the big questions like what's the deal with Starbuck or the Song or the Opera House were answered with a nice big "God did it". Considering the general dark tone of Galactica, the ending was overly happy and sunny. The preachy ending with evil Japanese robots was a real turn-off, there was no need what so ever to tie it back to our Earth.

 

I would have been a lot more happier with leaving things open rather than saying "God did it" and them just living out their lives on the ships or whatever. Kind of like the last episode of Stargate SG1 "Unending".

 

If you go to Battlestar Wiki's forum, there are lots of dissatisfaction with the ending as well (despite the fact that the poll indicated that most people are happy with it). The God factor is indeed a big turn off because one of the main appeals of the show is that a lot of ridiculously weird things (i.e. head characters, Starbuck's resurrection, the Music) have occurred and that we 'had' a feeling that it would not be explained by Deux Ex Machina. And so part of the anticipation of the show would be to get a plausible explanation behind all the crazy things.

 

But ultimately, the writers were incapable of wrapping things up without using God as the plot device. Even worse, a lot of elements that were so hyped up turned out to be so... inadequately handled, i.e.:

* The Opera House - What's so special about it? Why are those visions even important?

* Hera - By chance, she turned out to be the Mitochondrial Eve. Her existence was not essential at all

* Final Five - After all five were revealed, things went on as usual. No extra scenes to show how they interact with their children

* Head Characters - OMG they are angels!

* Lords of Kobol - Totally become forgotten

* Starbuck - She is also an angel! OMG!

* The Music - God played it!

 

The Cylons may have had a plan but Moore and the writers did not it seems. It was no secret they were making it all up as they went along and some plot twists were employed for pure "shock" value. In the end they painted themselves into a corner and there was no way out.

 

There were two other endings they were toying with. In my opinion they chose the best of the three. And that is saying something about how bad the other two were.

 

http://io9.com/5191097/ron-moore-throws-ou...nate-bsg-ending

"What can't be changed must be endured"

Robert Jordan

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Well, I didn't like it. Most of the big questions like what's the deal with Starbuck or the Song or the Opera House were answered with a nice big "God did it". Considering the general dark tone of Galactica, the ending was overly happy and sunny. The preachy ending with evil Japanese robots was a real turn-off, there was no need what so ever to tie it back to our Earth.

 

I would have been a lot more happier with leaving things open rather than saying "God did it" and them just living out their lives on the ships or whatever. Kind of like the last episode of Stargate SG1 "Unending".

 

If you go to Battlestar Wiki's forum, there are lots of dissatisfaction with the ending as well (despite the fact that the poll indicated that most people are happy with it). The God factor is indeed a big turn off because one of the main appeals of the show is that a lot of ridiculously weird things (i.e. head characters, Starbuck's resurrection, the Music) have occurred and that we 'had' a feeling that it would not be explained by Deux Ex Machina. And so part of the anticipation of the show would be to get a plausible explanation behind all the crazy things.

 

But ultimately, the writers were incapable of wrapping things up without using God as the plot device. Even worse, a lot of elements that were so hyped up turned out to be so... inadequately handled, i.e.:

* The Opera House - What's so special about it? Why are those visions even important?

* Hera - By chance, she turned out to be the Mitochondrial Eve. Her existence was not essential at all

* Final Five - After all five were revealed, things went on as usual. No extra scenes to show how they interact with their children

* Head Characters - OMG they are angels!

* Lords of Kobol - Totally become forgotten

* Starbuck - She is also an angel! OMG!

* The Music - God played it!

 

The Cylons may have had a plan but Moore and the writers did not it seems. It was no secret they were making it all up as they went along and some plot twists were employed for pure "shock" value. In the end they painted themselves into a corner and there was no way out.

 

There were two other endings they were toying with. In my opinion they chose the best of the three. And that is saying something about how bad the other two were.

 

http://io9.com/5191097/ron-moore-throws-ou...nate-bsg-ending

Yeah, that's somewhat like Bernard Madoff. Great things were promised... except they never really existed in the end. The difference is that Madoff's investor's lost millions of dollars and RDM's investors lost nothing except for hours of bad drama towards the end. However, since so much hype was built up when the show was actually good (up to and including Rapture, Season 3), I wouldn't be surprised if BSG will win great many awards for "good writing" and its "great ending simply because of the mass media and the bandwagon effect. Personally though, this show is both logically and artistically a disaster.

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There were two other endings they were toying with. In my opinion they chose the best of the three. And that is saying something about how bad the other two were.

 

http://io9.com/5191097/ron-moore-throws-ou...nate-bsg-ending

 

Making two other potential endings that are even worse than the current one is quite a feat. It's really sad that you can totally ruin a whole series with a horrible ending. With movies you can write off bad sequels, the original will still be there. I can't go back and watch Galactica again without remembering how it is all explained, that's what annoys me the most.

 

With a series as dark as BSG, you'd expect a dark or at least somewhat dark ending, not a lackluster tearfest followed by a snarky "omg we're making it happen again". It went all downhill when they showed the Colony which looked like an evil villain's secret lair and it was orbiting a black hole to boot. The battle part was ok, but the New Caprica battle was a lot better. Why couldn't they just randomly jump somewhere that wasn't the paradise they were looking for? Galactica breaking apart during the jump held no real meaning, because they didn't need it any more. I would have been satisfied with them getting stranded in the middle of nowhere.

 

Also, it was funny that the whole cast was ready to go on an obvious suicide mission to save one child who is "important" according to some religious texts and a crazy president.

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I think I'd have liked it better had the show ended with them finding the ruined "earth". There was a certain irony to that. Artisticly it would have reminded of Old Man and the Sea. To come all that way with nothing to show in the end.

"What can't be changed must be endured"

Robert Jordan

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I think I'd have liked it better had the show ended with them finding the ruined "earth". There was a certain irony to that. Artisticly it would have reminded of Old Man and the Sea. To come all that way with nothing to show in the end.

 

That would have worked, I guess.

 

I really hope that the LOST people are seeing this and making their ending satisfying. They don't even need to tie up every little bit, it just has to make sense within the world that they have created.

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I think I'd have liked it better had the show ended with them finding the ruined "earth". There was a certain irony to that. Artisticly it would have reminded of Old Man and the Sea. To come all that way with nothing to show in the end.

 

That would have worked, I guess.

 

I really hope that the LOST people are seeing this and making their ending satisfying. They don't even need to tie up every little bit, it just has to make sense within the world that they have created.

 

Tgats the problem when you make it up as you go. You end up painting yourself into a corner with no good way out.

"What can't be changed must be endured"

Robert Jordan

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I think I'd have liked it better had the show ended with them finding the ruined "earth". There was a certain irony to that. Artisticly it would have reminded of Old Man and the Sea. To come all that way with nothing to show in the end.

 

That would have worked, I guess.

 

I really hope that the LOST people are seeing this and making their ending satisfying. They don't even need to tie up every little bit, it just has to make sense within the world that they have created.

 

Tgats the problem when you make it up as you go. You end up painting yourself into a corner with no good way out.

 

Well, the Lost writers decided on the ending somewhere near the 3rd season, so there is still hope. Making it up as you go is pretty much the worst way to go for a series, what a waste. What was RDM thinking?

Edited by Purkake
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