Russia in Georgia

[Aponez]

HAHA! Even Russia's Asian Allies snumb their war crimes of murdering innocent Georgians, and conquering another country and keeping their soldiers there.

 

 

"The english always were very funny

[Volourn]

"Well, the "thousands of casualties and tens of thousands of refugees" are from a paper from the US Library of Congress, not my invention (I think I posted the link previously in this thread, or was that at WW? Thats possible). Blame them if they are fiddling with the numbers. Mind you, this was in 1991 when the Georgians wanted to wipe out any sense of "Ossetian" cultural integrity."

 

I was referring to the most recent fighting. Not since the whole dispute started.

 

 

 

"There is only 1 difference some countries accepted the independence of Kosovo (46) but now dont accept the independence of South Ossetia and Abjazia"

 

That's because those countries know there are differences between the two different situations. And, it's far from the only difference between the two.

[Aponez]

"Well, the "thousands of casualties and tens of thousands of refugees" are from a paper from the US Library of Congress, not my invention (I think I posted the link previously in this thread, or was that at WW? Thats possible). Blame them if they are fiddling with the numbers. Mind you, this was in 1991 when the Georgians wanted to wipe out any sense of "Ossetian" cultural integrity."

 

I was referring to the most recent fighting. Not since the whole dispute started.

 

 

 

"There is only 1 difference some countries accepted the independence of Kosovo (46) but now dont accept the independence of South Ossetia and Abjazia"

 

That's because those countries know there are differences between the two different situations. And, it's far from the only difference between the two.

 

The only difference is accept the independence of Abjazia and South Ossetia means get upset uncle Sam

 

For example Turkey accepts from the albanese in Kosovo the same things she denies to her kurdish, in my country that is called hipocresy, in yours i dont know

[Gorth]

That's because those countries know there are differences between the two different situations. And, it's far from the only difference between the two.

Hence my original question, what are the differences?

 

That one has more friends doesn't really count. I'll refrain from cheap shots like "Georgia is a strategically important ally because of the oil pipeline running through it"

 

Edit: And no, it isn't a trick question or bait, I am honestly curious about what those differences could be.

[Aponez]

Edit: And no, it isn't a trick question or bait, I am honestly curious about what those differences could be.

 

The problem here Gorth is there is NO difference, is like tomorrow USA gets angry with Turkey and decides accept the independence of Kurdistan, will be the same.

[Fighter]

I should also say that I don't think Georgia is innocent but people keep claiming they aattacked Russia and they did no such thing.

 

They attacked our peacekeepers. It's enough justification for me to fight back. Not that I really approve the prolonged occupation of parts of Georgia proper.

 

As far as Kosovo. Yes it's hypocrisy. The so called differences are all bull****, the main things are all exactly the same. The only difference is, Georgia is America's pet and Serbs weren't. I don't know about the numbers of dead, but NATO did the same exact thing, the numbers of albanians killed where not nearly what they said they were.

Edited August 30, 2008 by Fighter

[Hildegard]

I should also say that I don't think Georgia is innocent but people keep claiming they aattacked Russia and they did no such thing.

 

They attacked our peacekeepers. It's enough justification for me to fight back. Not that I really approve the prolonged occupation of parts of Georgia proper.

 

As far as Kosovo. Yes it's hypocrisy. The so called differences are all bull****, the main things are all exactly the same. The only difference is, Georgia is America's pet and Serbs weren't. I don't know about the numbers of dead, but NATO did the same exact thing, the numbers of albanians killed where not nearly what they said they were.

 

 

And Serbs aren't Russian pets? LOL

 

You now, Serbs have a saying: 'Nas i Rusa 300 milijuna'

 

With Kosovo and the ending of fighting in Georgia, this is a war where the victor is hypocrisy, on both sides.

[Fighter]

With Kosovo and the ending of fighting in Georgia, this is a war where the victor is hypocrisy, on both sides.

 

Yes. And I didn't say otherwise. Just don't give me the "Kosovo is sooo different" speech, it's not different.

 

And like I said, whether our government's hands were itching or not to knock them around is a different matter. To me it's enough that they launched an attack on our soldiers. You start waging war against a foreign army, don't complain if they invade you.

[Brdavs]

Well the vague SCO statement is being spinned like crazy by media for their seperate agendas. Western ones tend to focus on the part where SCO doesnt explicitly back Russia as Russias "failure" and other media seem to focus on the part in wich the leaders of China, Russia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan said they "support the active role of Russia in assisting peace and cooperation in the region." as a victory for Russia.

 

The only obvious thing in that statement is that its deliberatly vague to not take concrete sides heh. Let the press take over and satisfy their respective publics. China for instance isnt about to forget its anti seperatist stance but its not looking favorably on western Tibet stance in the light of theri support for Georgia either lol.

 

 

 

In other news OSCE is being cirtical towards Georgia for their planned invasion into ossetia before the Russian response and is investigating possibilities of war crimes in ordering a night attack on a city. lol. 5$ says that dont make many headlines. Its supposedly being published in Der Spiegel weekly on monday. Should be a "different" read to what we`re used to heh.

 

 

P.S. Interesting article about the military aspects of the conflict:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=140546

Edited August 30, 2008 by Brdavs

[Aponez]

I should also say that I don't think Georgia is innocent but people keep claiming they aattacked Russia and they did no such thing.

 

They attacked our peacekeepers. It's enough justification for me to fight back. Not that I really approve the prolonged occupation of parts of Georgia proper.

 

As far as Kosovo. Yes it's hypocrisy. The so called differences are all bull****, the main things are all exactly the same. The only difference is, Georgia is America's pet and Serbs weren't. I don't know about the numbers of dead, but NATO did the same exact thing, the numbers of albanians killed where not nearly what they said they were.

 

First of all Fighter you should inform that the russian troops in South Osetia were as peacekeepings because of an agreement between the georgian government, the russian government and the south ossetian and abjazians

[Morgoth]

So, OSCE Observers confirmed that Georgia attacked Southossi civilians before Russia invaded Georgia. Also, Georgia apparantly planned the attack very carefully and gave orders to attack Southossi civilians during night while they slept.

 

I wonder why this report hasn't gone live yet in UK/US media.

[SteveThaiBinh]

I wonder why this report hasn't gone live yet in UK/US media.

Perhaps it will get more coverage on Monday when it's actually released.

[Morgoth]

It's already released in other countries.

[Aponez]

Here we have other point of view about this situation

 

 

In English would be:

 

1.- Russia cant invade Sovereign nations

 

2.- That is OUR job

[Brdavs]

Human Rights Watch said it had received an official letter from Georgia's Defense Ministry that acknowledged use of the M85 cluster munition near the Roki tunnel that connects South Ossetia with Russia

 

CB? OUTRAGEEEE!

 

?

 

Not this time, georgians apparently used them. Page 3, bottom right corner.

 

Anyone surprised?

 

lol

[Volourn]

In other news, Russian citizens that wrote negative things about Russia... were murdered by Russia....

 

Anyone surprised?

 

 

P.S. Nobody is claiming Georgia is super innocent; but Russia is not some super hero who came in to 'save the day'. L0L

[Fighter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QJNYnbCVl4...88&page=693

 

Georgian soldiers driving through Tskhinvalli and shooting at things. From the way it looks to me no one is actually fighting them. But they seem to have a good time killing things non the less.

 

In other news, Russian citizens that wrote negative things about Russia... were murdered by Russia....

 

Anyone surprised?

 

One member of Ingush teyp (like a clan) killed another one in their century old traditional way of solving disputes. (And it is not actually proven as usual. But that's ok, of course bloody KGB is to blame for everything ).

 

While the rest of the clan is making official declarations of blood feud yet again on the streets, another fine Caucasian tradition, and a clear sign of "free democratic opposition" as CNN would no doubt tell you.

 

And after that it's us who refuse to see the shades of gray. *rolls eyes*

Edited September 1, 2008 by Fighter

[SteveThaiBinh]

Tell me Fighter, who do you think was to blame for the killing of Anna Politkovskaya?

[Fighter]

Tell me Fighter, who do you think was to blame for the killing of Anna Politkovskaya?

 

One of the many Chechen field commanders that she knew and wrote about. Yes, including some that are under Russian control. Who are all shallow and vengeful, anything they perceive as an insult is more than enough to get you gutted. I don't believe the Kremlin directly because quiet honestly they piss on the opinion of small opposition press with negligible influence within Russia.

 

But this is all completely pointless because there is no proof. Anyone could kill her. Someone from the Mafia. In fact it's perfect for them, because everyone knows there is only one place the blame would fall.

Edited September 1, 2008 by Fighter

[SteveThaiBinh]

Yes, you are right. For Putin is the saviour of journalists, and would never do such a thing.

 

Gosh, that video is so perfect, isn't it? Is it what it claims to be? What's the origin, does anyone know?

[Fighter]

Yes, you are right. For Putin is the saviour of journalists, and would never do such a thing.

 

LMAO!

 

Gosh, that video is so perfect, isn't it? Is it what it claims to be? What's the origin, does anyone know?

 

I have no idea. But the vehicle in front of the tank is a Turkish made Scorpion jeep that only the Georgian army has and his uniform is Georgian. And they are obviously blasting at things inside a city.

[Volourn]

"Georgian soldiers driving through Tskhinvalli and shooting at things. From the way it looks to me no one is actually fighting them. But they seem to have a good time killing things non the less. "

 

There is no way to tell either way what's going on relaly in that video. All we see are tnaks going down the street with shots being fired. There is no way, again, to tell where all the shots coming from and if it's just one way like you (of course) assume it is.

 

 

 

"Who are all shallow and vengeful, anything they perceive as an insult is more than enough to get you gutted. I don't believe the Kremlin directly because quiet honestly they piss on the opinion of small opposition press with negligible influence within Russia."

 

Must explain all the reporters that get 'murdered' when they get arrested because of 'accidental' gun fire from the 'expert' Russian police. L0L

 

 

"another fine Caucasian tradition"

 

1. Sound slike a bigotry comment to me.

 

2. I'm Caucasian myself, and I have never committed msyelf to a 'blood feud' nor have I know anyone to do so. Not much of a Caucasian tradition, I guess. *shrug*

Edited September 2, 2008 by Volourn

[Fighter]

There is no way to tell either way what's going on relaly in that video. All we see are tnaks going down the street with shots being fired. There is no way, again, to tell where all the shots coming from and if it's just one way like you (of course) assume it is.

 

That's what it looks like to me. Personally I have no doubts at all the Georgians committed atrocities, because I know some sources that were there during the beginning of the war.

 

Must explain all the reporters that get 'murdered' when they get arrested because of 'accidental' gun fire from the 'expert' Russian police. L0L

 

Is that aimed at my Politkoskaya comment? She was not arrested by anyone. The thing yesterday, those guys are only Russian police on paper.

 

1. Sound slike a bigotry comment to me.

 

"Their suffering has only started. Their mothers, their wives will mourn them like we are mourning Magomed today. We swear we will avenge you, Magomed" - One of his family members, yesterday on the street.

 

"Yesterday the members of Evloev family clan have declared a blood feud against Medoyev (local Ingush head of police). His family and Medoyev personally will be killed. Declared blood feud against Medoyev's guard and the president of the republic (Ingushetia)" - Hazbiev. A close friend of the deceased. And leader of the "opposition" meeting.

 

http://newtimes.ru/teletype/2008/09/01/post-2702.html (If you read Russia)

 

2. I'm Caucasian myself, and I have never committed msyelf to a 'blood feud' nor have I know anyone to do so. Not much of a Caucasian tradition, I guess. *shrug*

 

You? From the mountains of Caucasus in southern Russia? Or do you mean you are white?

Edited September 2, 2008 by Fighter

[Volourn]

"You? From the mountains of Caucasus in southern Russia? Or do you mean you are white?"

 

HAHA! I'll let you decide.

 

 

 

"That's what it looks like to me. Personally I have no doubts at all the Georgians committed atrocities, because I know some sources that were there during the beginning of the war."

 

I was commenting on the video since that was what youw ere sharing. the video isn't evidence of anything really. Just not clear enough. Also, I'll point it out again - I have no doubt Georgia has commited some horrible stuff - just like Russia has. I have neevr claimed Georgia was innocent. L0L @ atrocities - a word that has lost a lot of its meaning over the years over misuse and overuse.

 

"The restaurant cook burned by burger! What an atrocity!" - random eater.

 

 

"Is that aimed at my Politkoskaya comment? She was not arrested by anyone. The thing yesterday, those guys are only Russian police on paper."

 

There is a reason why Russia has a weak 'free press' if they have one at all. Putin, and his ilk would never allow the press to write what has been written in the US (and in other Western countries) about their respective leaders. These last two happenings are only being aired because Russia is in such focus currently. I have no doubt these types of 'accidents' happen all the time without the Western media picking it up, because Russia-Georgia is in the newest 'crisis' (another word that has been used, and abused over the years).

Edited September 2, 2008 by Volourn

[Bass-GameMaster]

Here we have other point of view about this situation

 

 

In English would be:

 

1.- Russia cant invade Sovereign nations

 

2.- That is OUR job

 

Typical European post... well by the most part.

 

Im actually 1/4 spanish and hearing that from you makes me sad...