Yuusha Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=...mp;pageId=66100 Opinions please... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
random n00b Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 I wonder if Pro-death fashion would yield similar results? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 (edited) He was being disruptive of the classroom. When speech causes a disruption of the objective of a school, it can be silenced. Edited June 5, 2008 by Tale "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xard Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Tale hit the nail there Can't resist temptation however How can it be a no ob build. It has PROVEN effective. I dare you to show your builds and I will tear you apart in an arugment about how these builds will won them. - OverPowered Godzilla (OPG) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Tale got it. It is not the student's right to be a distraction in the classroom. There are plenty of outlets this young person can take if they want to express their opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsingham Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 The design of the t-shirt appeared needlessly symplistic, and the pictures offensive. I don't think they should wear it in school. I would also suggest that any argument which can be fitted on a t-shirt lacks weight. Unless, it was, like in really small writing. "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Yeah, there's a big difference between this and the Tinker case they cite in the article. Tinker involved a student wearing a simple black armband to protest the Vietnam War. It was understated and not meant to be the center of attention at all times. On the other hand, this shirt has huge lettering and pictures, and essentially accuses anyone who has undergone an abortion (which almost certainly includes some of the school's students and faculty) of committing murder. To walk into a classroom with this on is to say, "we're going to be talking about abortion today," which is almost certainly disruptive of whatever pedagogic plans the instructor may have had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsingham Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Exactly. Although it does raise the tantalising question of whether it's appropriate to wear a t-shirt covered in pr0n to school. "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Exactly. Although it does raise the tantalising question of whether it's appropriate to wear a t-shirt covered in pr0n to school. I refer you to Bethel School District v. Fraser, in which case the SCOTUS upheld disciplinary action to punish the following student speech (nominating a candidate for a student body position): I know a man who is firm - he's firm in his pants, he's firm in his shirt, his character is firm - but most [of] all, his belief in you the students of Bethel, is firm. Jeff Kuhlman is a man who takes his point and pounds it in. If necessary, he'll take an issue and nail it to the wall. He doesn't attack things in spurts - he drives hard, pushing and pushing until finally - he succeeds. Jeff is a man who will go to the very end - even the climax, for each and every one of you. So please vote for Jeff Kuhlman, as he'll never come between us and the best our school can be [long pause after the word "come" on oral delivery, but no comma in the written version, according to Matthew N Fraser] I think that precedent make pr0n an easy case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Just deal with the matter rationally and let the student wear the damn shirt. Make sure that the person wearing the shirt is still dealt with a mature manner, meaning acknowledge the opinion of the student and continue with the lecture and make sure that an eventual discussion is dealt in a decent manner. Students should be raized to question the world and seek knowledge, and accepting different opinions as consequence of that. I am an idealist. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Just deal with the matter rationally and let the student wear the damn shirt. Make sure that the person wearing the shirt is still dealt with a mature manner, meaning acknowledge the opinion of the student and continue with the lecture and make sure that an eventual discussion is dealt in a decent manner. Students should be raized to question the world and seek knowledge, and accepting different opinions as consequence of that. I am an idealist. I agree that the administration should be delicate when handling this situation, and it sounds as if they were. No one complained about the student wearing it on day one. It took a couple days before a teacher approached the student and advised against the shirt, and a couple more days before the principal got involved. This is clearly a student who was trying to raise a stink by wearing the same shirt every day for a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreasyDogMeat Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 This is clearly a student who was trying to raise a stink by wearing the same shirt every day for a month. Just what kind of stink are we talking about here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkan Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 This is clearly a student who was trying to raise a stink by wearing the same shirt every day for a month. Just what kind of stink are we talking about here? The pun variety. "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials "I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krookie Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 He's 12 years old and has been brainwashed by his parents, I bet they bought him the shirt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Raven Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Pro Death wins. Hades was the life of the party. RIP You'll be missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadly_Nightshade Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Pro Death wins. QFT! Anyways, I doubt the Tinker case will help this one, for, as others have pointed out, there are major differences between a simple armband and this, overly simplistic, shirt. "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgon Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 A shirt with color pictures of aborted babies, yum. Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calax Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 I would think that the shirt would be against the rules for ... "vulgar" content. I'm also pretty sure that at least 30 odd students would have probably asked a teacher if the teacher could get him to change shirts because not everyone wants to see an aborted fetus. (my HS had a protest of prolifers my junior year. They couldn't come on campus but they certainly freaked out several girls who were on their way into school.) Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsingham Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 We had the rather ironically named 'Choice' pro-life group give us atalk at my school waaaay back when. They showed film of abortions being done from the 1960s, and lots of gooey cute looking dead foetuses. Unfortunately for them, my school had actual lessons on spotting propaganda (grooming us for runnning the Empire and whatnot). When they asked for questions they got rapidly swamped by a detailed explanation of why what they said was factually incorrect, and clearly intended to insult our intelligence. We also demanded that they apologise to anyone who had been affected by having an abortion. It was in many ways one of our finest hours*. *We were otherwise pretty unsavoury. "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuusha Posted June 6, 2008 Author Share Posted June 6, 2008 Hmm... I thought you guys would agree with the kid. He is brave though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadly_Nightshade Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Hmm... I thought you guys would agree with the kid. You did!? "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuusha Posted June 6, 2008 Author Share Posted June 6, 2008 Hmm... I thought you guys would agree with the kid. You did!? Well yeah... Doesn't the US constitution guarantee his right to free speech? Or is abortion an exception? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Hmm... I thought you guys would agree with the kid. You did!? Well yeah... Doesn't the US constitution guarantee his right to free speech? Or is abortion an exception? When you're being definitely disruptive of a school's mission there is an exception. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Free speech does not entitle you to disrupt the lives of others. A public school system classroom(k-12) is also not the right platform for free speech, it's a place that is designed to give a well rounded education. Don't get me wrong, it is appropriate to talk about abortion and any controversial issues in the world, but it is not alright to dominate the classroom with a single issue. There is too much stuff to cover to allow that. Yuusha, do you know that I teach about the roots of Islam in my classroom? We discuss candidly what is happening in world affairs. Students voice their opinions for and against what is happening in the Iraq and Afghanistan. My job isn't to shove my opinions down their throat, it is to give them as much factual information as I can and allow them to form their own opinions. That is the essence of free speech. Students are allowed to form and voice their own opinions. But that doesn't mean they get to take over the educational experience of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Hmm... I thought you guys would agree with the kid. You did!? Well yeah... Doesn't the US constitution guarantee his right to free speech? Or is abortion an exception? Most schools enforce this under the same banner as in, it is forbidden to yell "fire" as a joke. It is usually up to the school to define themselves on what "disruptive of the common order" exactly is. Some schools can be really bad on this front. In my high-school however, that kind of a t-shirt would've been seen and shrugged at, since there is no debate on abortion. We were pretty much allowed to wear whatever we wanted as long there wasn't too much nudity or text that was directly against the law. Cloths which displayed overly racist or anti-[insert religion here] texts or images were officially forbidden, but never really enforced, since the school focused most of its resources on anti-mobbing and such. Oh, and i live in Europe. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now