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Bioware sold out

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It is also pointless, since the game will still be pirated. Onlyones treated as criminals aren

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"You're right; most new product purchasers will be unaffected. Thinking long-term, however, I suspect more than one in 10 million customers will encounter problems. Posters here have raised legitimate concerns about resales & replayability."

 

so is not genuine concerns today, but is assumptions that there may be future problems in the far-flung future?

 

by the time replay ability in distant future when hypothetical continued support no longer exists, there will, no doubt be some workaround or fix. you think bio or anybody else will care 'bout a securom workaround 3 years from now? the only purpose o' this kinda protection scheme is to dissuade the casual pirate.

 

however, you is correct... maybe 1 in 5,000 (being cynical) will experience some easily fixable securom issue that they has to wait for a patch to correct... am not even gonna guess at a number of folks who simply won't be able to play 'cause o' this. more or less than any other anti-piracy scheme?

 

it were just a short time ago on this board we saw developers post some pretty eye-opening numbers 'bout piracy. am sorry, but the hypothetical and often remote possible problems some hardcore fan might face is a pretty weak argument to use to forestall a developer or publisher from trying to protect themselves.

 

HA! Good Fun!


"Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."--Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

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Bioware went into the stench of the sewers the moment EA looked at them. This coming from someone who used to be a fan of their games.

 

This secure bull**** is futile and a waste of money on their part and only serves to piss off their consumers who will in the end, not buy their products.


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Hades was the life of the party. RIP You'll be missed.

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so is not genuine concerns today, but is assumptions that there may be future problems in the far-flung future?

Customers looking to resell games (as I often do) weeks or months after purchasing products will be affected by activation caps. I've experienced similar problems when considering the sale of legitimately purchased software. So while resales are a long-term consideration, this is not a far-flung future. Anti-piracy technology sometimes restricts 2nd-hand market opportunities; this is real not hypothetical.

 

For the record: I'm more curious than worried about this application of SecuROM, and I support anti-piracy protections and intellectual property rights. I'll accept Bio's decision and adapt my practices to a changing market.

 

Also, Gromnir, I appreciate your common-sense perspective re: replay opportunities, but I'm little puzzled how you interpreted my comments as an "argument to use to forestall a developer or publisher from trying to protect themselves." Perhaps you're speaking generally, because if that last comment was directed at me, your paraphrase is a bit of a stretch. Acknowledging the concerns of hardcore gamers is not the same as arguing that a gaming company should not protect its creative product. You could have interpreted my statements as an argument that there are better ways to implement anti-piracy technology -- if not for this game then the next -- but I didn't explicitly say that either.

 

Worries voiced on gaming boards have been made by the same hardcore fans most likely to seek out workarounds & support. These are also the folks most likely to experience replay problems (we're back to incident rates :aiee: ), and I don't think their speculation lacks legitimacy. Complaint boards such as this are often the seeding ground for applications that -- in the absence of an official fix -- allow hardcore fans to play legacy games. Perhaps this very thread is the beginning of your hypothetical "there will, no doubt be some workaround or fix."

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Wow. When I read this thread, I couldn't believe it and went right over to the Bio forums. By the gods... it's true. Words cannot express my disappointment. No doubt future Bio games, like Dragon Age, will require the same. Unbelievable that according to Derek Finch, MEPC... a single-player game... will require an internet connection to play. No dial-up players need apply.

 

I've looked forward to this game for so long... now I'm not sure I'm going to buy it. I must think. :aiee:

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I've looked forward to this game for so long... now I'm not sure I'm going to buy it. I must think. :aiee:

 

 

me, too, exactly. :aiee:


Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.

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Wow. When I read this thread, I couldn't believe it and went right over to the Bio forums. By the gods... it's true. Words cannot express my disappointment. No doubt future Bio games, like Dragon Age, will require the same. Unbelievable that according to Derek Finch, MEPC... a single-player game... will require an internet connection to play. No dial-up players need apply.

 

I've looked forward to this game for so long... now I'm not sure I'm going to buy it. I must think. :aiee:

 

DIal up will work ok for the activation though. SO technically that shouldn't bother you.


Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.

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so is not genuine concerns today, but is assumptions that there may be future problems in the far-flung future?

Customers looking to resell games (as I often do) weeks or months after purchasing products will be affected by activation caps. I've experienced similar problems when considering the sale of legitimately purchased software. So while resales are a long-term consideration, this is not a far-flung future. Anti-piracy technology sometimes restricts 2nd-hand market opportunities; this is real not hypothetical.

 

For the record: I'm more curious than worried about SecuROM, and I support anti-piracy protections and intellectual property rights. I'll accept Bio's decision and adapt my practices to a changing market.

 

Also, Gromnir, I appreciate your common-sense perspective re: replay opportunities, but I'm little puzzled how you interpreted my comments as an "argument to use to forestall a developer or publisher from trying to protect themselves." Perhaps you're speaking generally, because if that last comment was directed at me, your paraphrase is a bit of a stretch. Acknowledging the concerns of hardcore gamers is not the same as arguing that a gaming company should not protect its creative product. You could have interpreted my statements as argument that there are better ways to implement anti-piracy technology -- if not for this game then the next -- but I wasn't explicit about that either.

 

Worries voiced on gaming boards have been made by the same hardcore fans most likely to seek out workarounds & support. These are also the folks most likely to experience replay problems (we're back to incident rates :aiee: ), and I don't think their speculation lacks legitimacy. Complaint boards such as this are often the seeding ground for applications that -- in the absence of an official fixes -- allow hardcore fans to play legacy games. Perhaps this very thread is the beginning of your hypothetical "there will, no doubt be some workaround or fix."

Edited by blue

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Bioware went into the stench of the sewers the moment EA looked at them. This coming from someone who used to be a fan of their games.

 

This secure bull**** is futile and a waste of money on their part and only serves to piss off their consumers who will in the end, not buy their products.

 

is a good experiment. will be interesting to see just how many people don't buy specific 'cause of securom issues. am knowing that Gromnir didn't buy space rangers ii 'cause of starforce, but securom don't bother us a bit as it not really impact us.

 

maybe is like the codexians or vis/sand... piss and moan 'bout bio games, but play'em anyways? is this similar? got a bunch o' folks crying 'bout it, right up until and after they purchase? or maybe is just the pirates who complain... 'cause they gotta wait a week for a crack?

 

no doubt publisher/developer has some expectations 'bout sales. if the numbers of actual sales is much less, then maybe you is right and cheesed off consumers forgoes purchase... or maybe consumers is all just a bunch o' pantie wastes, and they goes ahead and buys in spite of securom.

 

*shrug*

 

Gromnir played on xbox and am not gonna buy a pc version o' game for some minor additions to content. am only curious to see how this impacts future.

 

 

"Customers looking to resell games (as I often do) weeks or months after purchasing products will be affected by activation caps. I've experienced similar problems when considering the sale of legitimately purchased software. So while resales are a long-term consideration, this is not a far-flung future. Anti-piracy technology sometimes restricts 2nd-hand market opportunities; this is real not hypothetical."

 

nevertheless, how much is this a genuine concern? is you honestly gonna pass on purchase of a game because you may not be able to resell afterwards? seems highly unlikely. these is disposable income luxury items. try to sell us on the frugality angel seems... disingenuous.

 

the replay argument seems equally unsubstantiated. again, the only people affected by long-term replay ability is the fans who Loved the freaking game....

 

bah.

 

if you is simply repeating their specious arguments w/o judgment, then so be it, but otherwise, am not seeing a genuine serious concern worth noting. securom is not like the starforce situation whereby many complaints were voiced 'bout crashing os and similar nightmare scenarios. no resell? HA! no replay ability 3 years removed? HA! the number of potential legit buyers these concerns could possibly dissuade from an actual purchase has gotta be near as infinitesimal as we originally suggested. is people making such arguments anyways? sure they are, but is mostly sound and fury.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited by Gromnir

"Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."--Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

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Derek French said that EA tech support shoudl be able to help gamers through al problems with the CP.

 

ANybody ever called EA tech support? I find it preferable to simply bludgen myself with the phone. It's less painful.

Edited by CrashGirl

Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.

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Wow. When I read this thread, I couldn't believe it and went right over to the Bio forums. By the gods... it's true. Words cannot express my disappointment. No doubt future Bio games, like Dragon Age, will require the same. Unbelievable that according to Derek Finch, MEPC... a single-player game... will require an internet connection to play. No dial-up players need apply.

 

I've looked forward to this game for so long... now I'm not sure I'm going to buy it. I must think. :aiee:

 

DIal up will work ok for the activation though. SO technically that shouldn't bother you.

 

But it continually comes back to recheck, and if your computer can't be accessed for 3 rechecks (from what I understand) your game will no longer run. BTW, I finally got wireless a while back so I'm not hobbled by 24kbm dial-up anymore.

 

I understand that rampant piracy has brought these draconian measures, but damn. It's a horrible thing to do to BioWare's long-time and loyal fans.

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Gromnir played on xbox

Did you post reactions/capsule review? If you've a link handy, I'd appreciate.

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Wow. When I read this thread, I couldn't believe it and went right over to the Bio forums. By the gods... it's true. Words cannot express my disappointment. No doubt future Bio games, like Dragon Age, will require the same. Unbelievable that according to Derek Finch, MEPC... a single-player game... will require an internet connection to play. No dial-up players need apply.

 

I've looked forward to this game for so long... now I'm not sure I'm going to buy it. I must think. :aiee:

 

DIal up will work ok for the activation though. SO technically that shouldn't bother you.

 

But it continually comes back to recheck, and if your computer can't be accessed for 3 rechecks (from what I understand) your game will no longer run. BTW, I finally got wireless a while back so I'm not hobbled by 24kbm dial-up anymore.

 

I understand that rampant piracy has brought these draconian measures, but damn. It's a horrible thing to do to BioWare's long-time and loyal fans.

 

 

It requires a check every ten days and starts trying to check with the securom servers at -5 days. So you have a 5 day window. As long as yiu are connected to your ISP at some point during those five days when you run the game it shouldn't be a problem, dial up or not.


Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.

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if the numbers of actual sales is much less, then maybe you is right and cheesed off consumers forgoes purchase...

[...]

 

HA! Good Fun!

Or maybe piracy killed sales regardless! :aiee:

 

 

It's a horrible thing to do to BioWare's long-time and loyal fans.
If you were really loyal, you'd support BIO no matter what!

 

 

OK, I'll stop now...

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It requires a check every ten days and starts trying to check with the securom servers at -5 days. So you have a 5 day window. As long as yiu are connected to your ISP at some point during those five days when you run the game it shouldn't be a problem, dial up or not.
Dozens of times, on at least 4 different computers over the years.

 

I thought it would recheck every 10 days as well? I'm quite illiterate on SecuRom stuff. But I do understand it when Derek French tells me I can only install a game three times, then poof. Do you know how many times I've reinstalled BG2 alone?

 

Damn, this is why I hate piracy with a passion, because it forces gaming companies to do draconian crap like this. I know I'm not going to run out on May 28 and buy the damned thing, that's for sure. I'll be perusing the BioWare Support forums to see just how much of a problem others smarter than I are having.

 

Damn. Again. :aiee:

Edited by ~Di

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Damn, this is why I hate piracy with a passion, because it forces gaming companies to do draconian crap like this.
That's like blaming mass executions on kids stealing candy.

 

I know I said I'd stop, but...

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And that's another reason why I love consoles.

 

*shields himself with XboX*

Edited by WILL THE ALMIGHTY

"Alright, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade - make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager. Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons. Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons. I'm going to to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!"

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Yes, I verified it. From Cris Priesley's faq:

 

"Q: Why does MEPC need to reactivate every 10 days?

 

A: MEPC needs to authenticate every 10 days to ensure that the CD key used for the game is valid. This is designed to reduce piracy and protect valid CD keys."

 

"Q: What happens if I want to play MEPC but do not have an internet connection?

 

A: You cannot play MEPC without an internet connection. MEPC must authenticate when it is initially run and every 10 days thereafter."

 

"Q: How many installations will SecuROM allow from my copy of MEPC?

 

A: Since SecuROM has nothing to do with the installer, you can install and uninstall on the same machine over and over again without any problems. SecuROM also allows you to activate the game on 3 different machines. "

 

 

"Q: What happens if I exceed 3 activations?

 

A: Your first 3 activations will still work, but any subsequent activation will not work. "

 

 

This just sounds incredibly onerous and invasive. Fair enough, I'm not real techie when it comes to computer stuff, but dang.

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It requires a check every ten days and starts trying to check with the securom servers at -5 days. So you have a 5 day window. As long as yiu are connected to your ISP at some point during those five days when you run the game it shouldn't be a problem, dial up or not.
Dozens of times, on at least 4 different computers over the years.

 

I thought it would recheck every 10 days as well? I'm quite illiterate on SecuRom stuff. But I do understand it when Derek French tells me I can only install a game three times, then poof. Do you know how many times I've reinstalled BG2 alone?

 

Damn, this is why I hate piracy with a passion, because it forces gaming companies to do draconian crap like this. I know I'm not going to run out on May 28 and buy the damned thing, that's for sure. I'll be perusing the BioWare Support forums to see just how much of a problem others smarter than I are having.

 

Damn. Again. :aiee:

 

 

AS I understand it you can install/uninstall as many times as you like on one computer. But you only get three different boxes, or upgraded boxes, I suppose if you upgrades are significant enough.

 

 

Again, when I was reading through the BIo thread last night I believe I recall Derek saying that you could call EA tech support and get more installs if you run out. Frankly, I can't imagine how he managed to type that without bursting out laughing.


Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.

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Gromnir keeps repeating arguments that have been dealt with already for some curious reason, but most strikingly, I am not sure why he disregards the possibility of a number of people who might have considered buying the game, but now will not, because of this move. It is then irrelevant whether they pirate the game afterwards or not. For myself, Mass Effect is a game I would have liked to play, but not so much that I will a) put up with the idiocy on a personal level and b) participate in the collective activity of disavowal: I know this is wrong, but I buy it anyway, I know this is bad, but I buy it anyway, I know it's annoying and offensive, but I buy it anyway. Which is never a conscientious or socially positive thing to do in most circumstances.

 

no resell? HA! no replay ability 3 years removed? HA!

 

From the point of view of the company, sure, you're right, it is cost-effective to screw a small number of customers to (possibly, maybe) harness a greater number (casual players/pirates). But are you really saying, then, from the point of view of that 'infintesimal' (that, btw, is an exaggeration) crowd, they should stop complaining or being concerned or acting on their concern just because their concern is not shared by a huge majority? Just as you say that it is understandable for the company to do this, it is de facto understandable for the effected community to cry foul, and do their best to bring the issue to public knowledge and attack the image of the company.

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...

 

making sure you get us in both threads... just in case?

 

HA! Good Fun!


"Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."--Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

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And that's another reason why I love consoles.

 

*shields himself with XboX*

 

 

WOuldn't it be fair to say though that if PC gaming does die out completetly, all the pirates wil just concentrate on hacking console games. What happens then? Do all the developers and publishers wring their hands and cry about console piracy and the death of console games and then go back to developing for PC only?

 

Its like this weird little dance with the publishers chasing their tails.


Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.

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This secure bull**** is futile and a waste of money on their part and only serves to piss off their consumers who will in the end, not buy their products.

 

You are correct, by choosing this idiotic data rights management scheme, Bioware, and EA, have lost themselves at least one sale. I mean, I have two PCs that I would have installed it on -my laptop and my main PC- with a third coming up, hopefully, within a year - opps, there goes all my legitimate activations, not that I'm going to buy a copy with the draconian malware intact. :aiee:


"A little inaccuracy sometimes saves a ton of explanation."
-H. H. Munro

 

"Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum."

-Hurlshot

 

 

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