Rosbjerg Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 and what happened to Caprica 6's (or whatever they called her) "mind Baltar"? I thought that relationship (Real Baltar and Real 6 vs Mind Baltar and Mind 6) was quite interesting.. Especially that they seemed so vastly different. Fortune favors the bald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgon Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 (edited) And now it seems clear adama is the 'dying leader' the scrolls talked about not laura. How so. On a final note, while I buy the deck chief job as also in charge of damage control as well I find it hard to swallow its his job to repair the ship on this level as they showed this past ep. Wouldn't that go to the chief engineer? There is nobody qualified left. Edited February 15, 2009 by Gorgon Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humodour Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 The 6 that was involved with Baltar is the same 6 that is pregnant with Tigh's child. What I want to know is what happened to Baltar's "Mind 6." She hasn't been in the entire 4th season I believe, right? She just kind of disappeared. The writers said they won't continue that plotline because they cannot conceive an adequate way to explain Virtual Six. Virtual Baltar in the Six was obviously Cylon projection, while Virtual Baltar in Baltar will probably also not be explained (they probably planned for Baltar to be a Cylon but then decided against it later. Virtual Elosha and Leoben may still be explained, though Elosha is probably put down to Roslin's meds. Re Kara: interesting speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkan Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 The 6 that was involved with Baltar is the same 6 that is pregnant with Tigh's child. What I want to know is what happened to Baltar's "Mind 6." She hasn't been in the entire 4th season I believe, right? She just kind of disappeared. The writers said they won't continue that plotline because they cannot conceive an adequate way to explain Virtual Six. Virtual Baltar in the Six was obviously Cylon projection, while Virtual Baltar in Baltar will probably also not be explained (they probably planned for Baltar to be a Cylon but then decided against it later. Virtual Elosha and Leoben may still be explained, though Elosha is probably put down to Roslin's meds. Re Kara: interesting speculation. Aw...that sucks "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials "I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkan Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 The 6 that was involved with Baltar is the same 6 that is pregnant with Tigh's child. What I want to know is what happened to Baltar's "Mind 6." She hasn't been in the entire 4th season I believe, right? She just kind of disappeared. The writers said they won't continue that plotline because they cannot conceive an adequate way to explain Virtual Six. Virtual Baltar in the Six was obviously Cylon projection, while Virtual Baltar in Baltar will probably also not be explained (they probably planned for Baltar to be a Cylon but then decided against it later. Virtual Elosha and Leoben may still be explained, though Elosha is probably put down to Roslin's meds. Re Kara: interesting speculation. Aw...that sucks Just found this: http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/youwillkno...ex.php?pageid=6 0 some kind of preview for the 4th season involving Virtual 6 and Baltar? Also, after a second watch, in the scene where Anders sees everyone glowing, there is a character just in the background (in a doorway?) that ISN'T glowing. "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials "I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkan Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 (edited) Here's what I'm referring to: Editing oversight or A Clue! Edited February 15, 2009 by Arkan "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials "I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humodour Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 If Caville wanted revenge on humans for what they did to his people, then why did he proceed to lobotomise his own people (raiders, toasters) and kill the rest? You could put if down to him being a mad man, but the other Cylons seemed quite happy to go along with it for a good while. I mean the only reason he was created was because 'his people' agreed to it in exchange for a ceasefire. He then goes and lobotomises them? This show is so frakking full of plot holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Kitty Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 ^ That's not a plot hole, Cavil is just a huge jerk. He wants to be a perfect machine but he's more human than he realises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humodour Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 ^ That's not a plot hole, Cavil is just a huge jerk. He wants to be a perfect machine but he's more human than he realises. Cavil may be insane, but the others are not. It doesn't fit at all well. "During Sam's ramblings while he's getting prepped for surgery, he says 'Back on Earth, the warning signs that we got? It looked different to each one of us. I saw a woman; Tory you saw a man. Funny, no-one - no-one else could see them. Galen, you thought you had a chip in your head-'." Maybe the writers are going to visit the virtual beings/angels after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Kitty Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 I don't think Cavil is insane at all. The fact that other Cyclons are now his enemies when they were once his allies isn't really an issue either. They were made to be like humans, and humans change their minds. I mean is it a plot hole that Boomer released Ellen, going against Cavil? As for limits on raiders and centurions, that's because the humanoid Cylons are as bad as the humans that created them. Is it really so surprising that Cavil wants to control "his people"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkan Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 I don't think Cavil is insane at all. The fact that other Cyclons are now his enemies when they were once his allies isn't really an issue either. They were made to be like humans, and humans change their minds. I mean is it a plot hole that Boomer released Ellen, going against Cavil? As for limits on raiders and centurions, that's because the humanoid Cylons are as bad as the humans that created them. Is it really so surprising that Cavil wants to control "his people"? Exactly. Lest the centurions rise up against the skinjobs.....again. "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials "I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhomal Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 (edited) And now it seems clear adama is the 'dying leader' the scrolls talked about not laura. How so. On a final note, while I buy the deck chief job as also in charge of damage control as well I find it hard to swallow its his job to repair the ship on this level as they showed this past ep. Wouldn't that go to the chief engineer? There is nobody qualified left. Adama has been popping pills a lot this half of the season, and how other crew are mentioning how poorly he looks as of late. (Great acting by eddie as always) I don't buy that, they have the merged Pegasus and Galactica crews running the ship. Which should, more or less even with losses since new caprica, have a mostly full compliment crew total. You can't tell me theres no one qualified in the combined engineering teams for someone to be a chief engineer. In fact SOMEONE has to be running the engineering dept... On the topic of new cap, while story wise I understand overruled military logic, I am sure if written properly adama would have taken pegasus to rescue them on new cap, not galactica. As from a pure military standpoint he would have wanted the most firepower to take on the 3 or 4 basestars. If so he wouldn't have this current issue of infrastructure starting to fail as galactica would have been sacrificed not pegasus. However, then it would be odd calling the show battlestar galactica if she ship no longer existed. lol Edited February 15, 2009 by Rhomal Admin of World of Darkness Online News News/Community site for the WoD MMORPG http://www.wodonlinenews.net --- Jericho sassed me so I broke into his house and stabbed him to death in his sleep. Problem solved. - J.E. Sawyer --- "I cannot profess to be a theologian; but it seems to me that Christians who believe in a super human Satan have got themselves into a logical impasse with regard to their own religion. For either God can not prevent the mischief of Satan, in which case he is not omnipotent; or else He could do so if he wished, but will not, in which case He is not benevolent. Fortunately, being a pagan witch, I am not called upon to solve this problem." - Doreen Valiente --- Expecting "innovation" from Bioware is like expecting "normality" from Valve -Moatilliatta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhomal Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Editing oversight or A Clue! Or simply a crew member walking down the hall... Admin of World of Darkness Online News News/Community site for the WoD MMORPG http://www.wodonlinenews.net --- Jericho sassed me so I broke into his house and stabbed him to death in his sleep. Problem solved. - J.E. Sawyer --- "I cannot profess to be a theologian; but it seems to me that Christians who believe in a super human Satan have got themselves into a logical impasse with regard to their own religion. For either God can not prevent the mischief of Satan, in which case he is not omnipotent; or else He could do so if he wished, but will not, in which case He is not benevolent. Fortunately, being a pagan witch, I am not called upon to solve this problem." - Doreen Valiente --- Expecting "innovation" from Bioware is like expecting "normality" from Valve -Moatilliatta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humodour Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 I don't think Cavil is insane at all. I think he'd definitely fit a few clinical definitions of insanity, but whatever you want to call it, he's not mentally stable. The fact that other Cyclons are now his enemies when they were once his allies isn't really an issue either. They were made to be like humans, and humans change their minds. I mean is it a plot hole that Boomer released Ellen, going against Cavil? As for limits on raiders and centurions, that's because the humanoid Cylons are as bad as the humans that created them. Is it really so surprising that Cavil wants to control "his people"? You're not really making sense. The skinjobs were pissed off with humans in the first place because 'their people' had been enslaved and they wanted revenge. They may be fickle but they're not moronic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Kitty Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 (edited) The skinjobs were pissed off with humans in the first place because 'their people' had been enslaved and they wanted revenge. That's not actually true. The colonial centurions wanted to become more human, but they were failing. The Five gave the centurions the power to create skinjobs, which ended the war. Under the guidance of the Five, the centurions and the skinjobs might never have returned to destroy the colonies, they may well have advanced to the level of the Earth cylons with the ability to give birth, hell they might have one day integrated with the humans. Becoming more human is clearly something cylons want - humanoid bodies, the ability to having baby. The Earth cylons succeeded and the colonial cylons probably would have too with the Five, but there was a fly in the ointment. Cavil wasn't like the other children, he didn't want to be human, he hated being human, stuck in that miserable old body when he should be a perfect awesome machine. So he got rid of his masters, and murdered the beloved brother that was most like what he hated. After the destruction of the colonies, the other models began thinking they made a mistake, which lead to the New Caprica experiment, but Cavil has never wavered from his desire to wipe out all that is human. He calls it "justice" to convince the others, and perhaps himself, but that simply isn't true. Notice how when Ellen asks the centurion for help out of the tub, and it extends a claw, before turning it into a hand? The centurions aren't used to being treated nicely. Cavil doesn't see them as "his people", they're "his tools". He was against removing the limitations on the non humanoid Cylons and those that were for it became his enemies. Edited February 15, 2009 by Hell Kitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkan Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Editing oversight or A Clue! Or simply a crew member walking down the hall... Well, what kind of crew member? A TV show crew member that editing missed (Editing oversight), or a Galactica crew member (a clue)? He's wearing what appear to be scrubs, so I'm leaning toward the latter. "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials "I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosbjerg Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Snip So Cavil murdered his brother, who his creator favoured - and out of jealosy none the less.. That's pretty much the biblical story of Kain. Fortune favors the bald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkan Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 (edited) Snip So Cavil murdered his brother, who his creator favoured - and out of jealosy none the less.. That's pretty much the biblical story of Kain. Abel? Good catch. I'm sure there's lots of biblical allegories in BSG. Edited February 15, 2009 by Arkan "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials "I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgon Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 And now it seems clear adama is the 'dying leader' the scrolls talked about not laura. How so. On a final note, while I buy the deck chief job as also in charge of damage control as well I find it hard to swallow its his job to repair the ship on this level as they showed this past ep. Wouldn't that go to the chief engineer? There is nobody qualified left. Adama has been popping pills a lot this half of the season, and how other crew are mentioning how poorly he looks as of late. (Great acting by eddie as always) I don't buy that, they have the merged Pegasus and Galactica crews running the ship. Which should, more or less even with losses since new caprica, have a mostly full compliment crew total. You can't tell me theres no one qualified in the combined engineering teams for someone to be a chief engineer. In fact SOMEONE has to be running the engineering dept... On the topic of new cap, while story wise I understand overruled military logic, I am sure if written properly adama would have taken pegasus to rescue them on new cap, not galactica. As from a pure military standpoint he would have wanted the most firepower to take on the 3 or 4 basestars. If so he wouldn't have this current issue of infrastructure starting to fail as galactica would have been sacrificed not pegasus. However, then it would be odd calling the show battlestar galactica if she ship no longer existed. lol Who was the head engineer supposed to be, there was the guy brought over from Pegasus who was killed in the mutiny, other than that it was always Tyrol who handled anything repair related. The episode where they were trapped in the airlock, investigating the explosives damage caused by Boomer, even the scene where the damage control team had to kill the workers trapped in the compromised bulkheads in the first episodes. I guess it's a question of practicality, a tv show can't have a character for every imagined major function on a Battlestar, it would grow the supporting cast too large. Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosbjerg Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 The whole monotheism vs polytheism has a frakload of references to classic scenarios. It's just funny that's it's "upisde down" as in the cylons who worship one God and the humans worship the old Greek Pantheon. Unless it's kind of a wierd retelling of Christianity, were Christians were secondclass citizens and prosecuted, much like the first cylons - who then later take revenge and perfoms genocide on every other religion in it's vicinity. Fortune favors the bald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkan Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Snip So Cavil murdered his brother, who his creator favoured - and out of jealosy none the less.. That's pretty much the biblical story of Kain. Holy crap! I just watched the episode again, and I noticed something else along those lines. Ellen offers Boomer the apple. Ellen is the serpent in the Garden of Eden offering the apple of knowledge to Boomer! "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials "I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgon Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Pretty obvious imagery. Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosbjerg Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 The symbols are pretty clear, that's quite true, but I can't fully grasp their meaning (as in what the writers are trying to say with the references). It can't be as simple as saying that Ellen is the Cylon Messiah and The Great Tempter togehter in one neat package. Although it fits well with Calvin playing the role as the established clergy who denies her role as Messiah (he started out as a priest on the Galactica no less). 12 Cylon models.. and a possible 13th.. that matches the number of Disciples .. and the text "one was sacrificed" fits well into that theory as well.. hmm Fortune favors the bald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkan Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 The symbols are pretty clear, that's quite true, but I can't fully grasp their meaning (as in what the writers are trying to say with the references). It can't be as simple as saying that Ellen is the Cylon Messiah and The Great Tempter togehter in one neat package. Although it fits well with Calvin playing the role as the established clergy who denies her role as Messiah (he started out as a priest on the Galactica no less). 12 Cylon models.. and a possible 13th.. that matches the number of Disciples .. and the text "one was sacrificed" fits well into that theory as well.. hmm Calvin? What about Hobbs? Or do you mean Cavil? "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials "I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosbjerg Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Sorry .. I've just read some Calvin and Hobbs - guess that scambled my brain a bit.. heh - But why was Cavil real name John? Fortune favors the bald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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