Guard Dog Posted May 23, 2007 Author Share Posted May 23, 2007 So what would your stance on DP be if it was your son that was wrongfully executed as a result of a judicial error GuardDog? See, it works both ways heh... Excellent point. But it is extremely rare I think. It is far more common to have a repeat offense committed by a criminal who was shown leniency by the court. Generally speaking, excecuted men commit no more vrimes. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pidesco Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 And we all know we can't have more "vrimes." "My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian touristI am Dan Quayle of the Romans.I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.Heja Sverige!!Everyone should cuffawkle more.The wrench is your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roshan Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Rapists should be put to death. There is no point in allowing such filthy creatures to continue living. With the exception of crimes such as those, I believe prisons should be places for rehabilitation for criminals such as thieves and drug addicts, and I also support giving prisoners as few years(or even months) as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aram Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Charles Bronson hates vriminals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brdavs Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 So what would your stance on DP be if it was your son that was wrongfully executed as a result of a judicial error GuardDog? See, it works both ways heh... Excellent point. But it is extremely rare I think. It is far more common to have a repeat offense committed by a criminal who was shown leniency by the court. Generally speaking, excecuted men commit no more vrimes. Yet the modern judicial process with all its safeguards is founded on the very notion that it is better to let X guilty ones walk just to prevent an innocent to get wrongfully punished. And not if, but when that still happens the punishment should be such that the innocent one can be "reinstated" (and somewhat compensated). DP contradicts this in a very profound way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted May 23, 2007 Author Share Posted May 23, 2007 And we all know we can't have more "vrimes." Doh! "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pidesco Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Rapists should be put to death. There is no point in allowing such filthy creatures to continue living. Perhaps you should say the same thing about all killers. Like the guys who condemn other people to death, for example. "My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian touristI am Dan Quayle of the Romans.I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.Heja Sverige!!Everyone should cuffawkle more.The wrench is your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brdavs Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Rapists should be put to death. There is no point in allowing such filthy creatures to continue living. Perhaps you should say the same thing about all killers. Like the guys who condemn other people to death, for example. Indeed. It`s not about your subjective feelins. It`s about a systemic solution that indorces the taking of a life, wich is supposed to be the fundamental value of our modern society. We`re better than that so to speak lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jade Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 "The death penalty exists in the US because it's popular with a large part of the electorate" It is popular in Kanada too. In fact, most polls have it with the slight majority in favor of it. Sometimes, the poll swings the other way. Guess what? the death penalty still doesn't exist in Kanada despite that. Go figure. *shrug* Canadian prisons are a joke. A joke with cable TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laozi Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Rapists should be put to death. There is no point in allowing such filthy creatures to continue living. Perhaps you should say the same thing about all killers. Like the guys who condemn other people to death, for example. Yeah, we should just legalize murder then. That would bring the cost of prison way down and also be totally bitchin sweet People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brdavs Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 (edited) Rapists should be put to death. There is no point in allowing such filthy creatures to continue living. Perhaps you should say the same thing about all killers. Like the guys who condemn other people to death, for example. Yeah, we should just legalize murder then. That would bring the cost of prison way down and also be totally bitchin sweet Death penalty IS legalised murder... But you can fight murder without the usage of Lex Tallion. Infact they`ve been doing it since Roman times. Edited May 23, 2007 by Brdavs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laozi Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 its more like contracted killing People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theslug Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 U.S needs more no nonsense harsher sentences for violent offenders and even some petty crimes. I mean look at china they have a low crime rate because if you do something wrong you're done for. There was a time when I questioned the ability for the schizoid to ever experience genuine happiness, at the very least for a prolonged segment of time. I am no closer to finding the answer, however, it has become apparent that contentment is certainly a realizable goal. I find these results to be adequate, if not pleasing. Unfortunately, connection is another subject entirely. When one has sufficiently examined the mind and their emotional constructs, connection can be easily imitated. More data must be gleaned and further collated before a sufficient judgment can be reached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brdavs Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 (edited) U.S needs more no nonsense harsher sentences for violent offenders and even some petty crimes. I mean look at china they have a low crime rate because if you do something wrong you're done for. Well it would shure take the superbowl half time show to a whole new level... public execution on a stadium. Yep thats just what we need ain`t it... Edited May 23, 2007 by Brdavs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aram Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 its more like contracted killing ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pidesco Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 How do you know the actual crime rate in China? Are there any reliable statistics on the subject? "My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian touristI am Dan Quayle of the Romans.I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.Heja Sverige!!Everyone should cuffawkle more.The wrench is your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 (edited) Rapists should be put to death. There is no point in allowing such filthy creatures to continue living. Perhaps you should say the same thing about all killers. Like the guys who condemn other people to death, for example. Indeed. It`s not about your subjective feelins. It`s about a systemic solution that indorces the taking of a life, wich is supposed to be the fundamental value of our modern society. We`re better than that so to speak lol... So, the US considers freedom to be a fundamental value of its society. Does that mean we shouldn't take freedom away from offenders? The US actually considers freedom more important that death. Edited May 23, 2007 by Tale "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azarkon Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 (edited) I've never had an easy time with crime and punishment concepts, and it's never been obvious to me what should be done in each situation, so I won't venture to pass judgment here. Instead, I'll state what I think are some key factors to the argument: 1. What purpose does punishment serve? How much of it is deterrence (ie: if child rape meant death, less pedos would try it; alternatively, if child rape meant life in prison with no parole, that particular criminal would never again harm children), how much of it is payback (ie: for the financial/emotional losses of the victims, or just because it's "justice"), and how much of it is rehabilitation (ie: for the purpose of correction)? 2. How do you gauge severity in crime? I mean, we consider rape and murder to be the ultimate capital crimes, but their effects on a person are very different. Rape victims are psychologically damaged (children even moreso); murder victims are dead. How does that even compare? 3. How should the law tread between vengeance and justice? This is really a rephrasing of #1, but it does bring into question the meaning of justice, which we'd like to think is equivalent to the law, but which often isn't, for many people (one extreme result of which is vigilantism). How does the concept of justice compare to the concept of crime and punishment? It seems obvious that justice doesn't care about deterrence and rehabilitation - it's only concerned about what is "wrong" and what constitutes the "right" amount of payback; so what does that say about how our crime and punishment system should be, if we hold justice to be its highest priority? Answers to these three questions form, I think, the basis of a crime-and-punishment philosophy, and a good system of crime-and-punishment probably has answers to all three questions. The problem lies with being objective about it. Edited May 23, 2007 by Azarkon There are doors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aram Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 How do you know the actual crime rate in China? Are there any reliable statistics on the subject? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brdavs Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Rapists should be put to death. There is no point in allowing such filthy creatures to continue living. Perhaps you should say the same thing about all killers. Like the guys who condemn other people to death, for example. Indeed. It`s not about your subjective feelins. It`s about a systemic solution that indorces the taking of a life, wich is supposed to be the fundamental value of our modern society. We`re better than that so to speak lol... So, the US considers freedom to be a fundamental value of its society. Does that mean we shouldn't take freedom away from offenders? The US actually considers freedom more important that death. There is a universal "ladder" of values and "legal goods", you know. And life is above personal freedom on that ladder, no question about it. If it werent you`d execute on sight with no incarseration, detention etc. whatsoever. US may be special but you`re not that special lol. It`s now just a question weahter or not that final step of the ladder is off limits not only for an induvidual citizen but for the whole state aparatus aswell. I say it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted May 23, 2007 Author Share Posted May 23, 2007 To be honest I have a very difficult time mustering any empathy for a rapist or murderer. And I'll admit I have a VERY hard time understanding those who can (including many people here). I just cannot get past the recidivism rate for rapists (particularly child rapists) and violent offenders. When I was in high school a former girlfriend of mine was murdered while delivering a pizza. She was shot in the back of the head without warning and her car and cash bag stolen. She was 17 years old. The animal who murdered her for $74.00 was released from state prison just two weeks earlier. He served 22 months of an 8 year sentence for armed robbery. He is now on death row. Can any one of you convince me that despicable S.O.B. does not deserve to die? No. If he had been kept in for the 8 years he was sentenced to she would have gone on to college and who knows where from there. I simply do not understand how any of you would feel any empathy for him. Or could possibly think he should spend the rest of his life in air conditioned comfort watching cable TV and eating meals I pay for with my tax dollars. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Death penalty IS legalised murder... technically, no. murder is, by definition, unlawful killing. so, actually, you have that "death penalty is lawful killing" and "murder is unlawful killing." taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laozi Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Plus murder has a certain ambience, a bit romantic. Themes like vengence or betrayal should be present. People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laozi Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 also as a food source People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 (edited) Rapists should be put to death. There is no point in allowing such filthy creatures to continue living. Perhaps you should say the same thing about all killers. Like the guys who condemn other people to death, for example. Indeed. It`s not about your subjective feelins. It`s about a systemic solution that indorces the taking of a life, wich is supposed to be the fundamental value of our modern society. We`re better than that so to speak lol... So, the US considers freedom to be a fundamental value of its society. Does that mean we shouldn't take freedom away from offenders? The US actually considers freedom more important that death. There is a universal "ladder" of values and "legal goods", you know. And life is above personal freedom on that ladder, no question about it. If it werent you`d execute on sight with no incarseration, detention etc. whatsoever. US may be special but you`re not that special lol. It`s now just a question weahter or not that final step of the ladder is off limits not only for an induvidual citizen but for the whole state aparatus aswell. I say it should be. There is no universal "ladder." Just because we value freedom over life doesn't mean we're going to go around killing everyone who commits an offense over incarceration. But, it does mean that if we find it reasonable to remove freedom, it is reasonable to remove life. Two of the major concepts behind our revolutionary war were liberty and representation which lead to them as founding principles of the country. Two specific things we take away from felons. Edited May 23, 2007 by Tale "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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