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Standing up for what is right!


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http://hotzone.yahoo.com/b/hotzone/blogs19056

 

Here is a man and soldier standing up against the Bush Administration and their illegal war in Iraq. President George W. Bush commit our troops invade Iraq on false pretenses of WMDs and false ties to Al Qaeda, and when these falsehoods no soldier said no to the Blunder In Chief till now. I commend this man's courage. Not only is it a duty of a soldier to protect this country, but also set an example to his peers and do what is right.

Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer.

 

@\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?"

Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy."

Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"

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Guest The Architect

Isn't it obvious that the Bush Administration are a group of lying crooks?

Edited by The Architect
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Sigh, and people used to think that the Russians were war mongering.

Their new weapon of choice is gas.

 

Does this guy have much of a chance in court? Surely he'd actually have to be ordered to do something that amounted to a war-crime before he could refuse legally.

"An electric puddle is not what I need right now." (Nina Kalenkov)

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Invading another country on false pretenses that has caused the death of tens of thousands isn't a war crime?

Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer.

 

@\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?"

Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy."

Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"

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Invading another country on false pretenses that has caused the death of tens of thousands isn't a war crime?

 

A war crime has to do with things like killing people when they've got the surrender flag up, or when you use the surrender flag just to trick the enemy into a false sense of sucurity only to attack them, or mistreating POWs or civilians, stuff like that. There is a crime for a War of Agression, but that isn't in the oficial list of war crimes I don't think. It's an internation law however. I'm not sure if this war can be classified as a war of aggression, but I know you probably do Hades.

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http://theatomicdanger.iforumer.com/index....theatomicdanger

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:thumbsup::shifty:

 

 

Invading another country on false pretenses that has caused the death of tens of thousands isn't a war crime?
What, a war in which people actually die? Are you kidding me? :aiee: *shock*

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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If you don't want to fight, don't join the military. That is it's sole purpose. And you do have to chose to join, there is no draft and no one is compelled to do so. Whatever the people here might think of the war, whatever HE thinks of the war does not make a bit of difference. He agreed to take the governments money and wear it's uniform so that means he gets the whole package and if that means fighting, so be it. He can have a year in Iraq or six years in Levanworth. That is also a choice.

 

As for Sturm's little quip about the Russians, if this guy had been in the Soviet Army and refused to go to Afghanistan he would have gotten a bullet in the head and no newspaper or anyone else would have ever heard about it. So there is a difference.

Edited by Guard Dog

"While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before"

Thomas Sowell

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The army is the wrong place for political conviction.

 

Yes, the war in Iraq was illegal in the sense that it was a breach of the UN charter which the US is a signitary to, but the big boys break the UN charter all the time, nothing ever comes of it. In any case national law trumphs international law.

Na na  na na  na na  ...

greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER.

That is all.

 

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She's referring to USSR

How can it be a no ob build. It has PROVEN effective. I dare you to show your builds and I will tear you apart in an arugment about how these builds will won them.

- OverPowered Godzilla (OPG)

 

 

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If you don't want to fight, don't join the military.

 

The issue isn't that he doesn't want to fight, in fact he seemed quite happy to fight when he thought the war just. The issue is that he believes the war to be illegal.

 

If you thought your boss was involved in illegal activities that could damage the company and it's employees, would you do nothing with the reasoning that you take your paycheck so it doesn't matter whether you think it's illegal or not?

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If you don't want to fight, don't join the military.

 

The issue isn't that he doesn't want to fight, in fact he seemed quite happy to fight when he thought the war just. The issue is that he believes the war to be illegal.

 

If you thought your boss was involved in illegal activities that could damage the company and it's employees, would you do nothing with the reasoning that you take your paycheck so it doesn't matter whether you think it's illegal or not?

 

I used to work for a QA company owned and run by French men(from France, not Canada).

When I found out that they were frauding my country(the Gov was helping with salaries and they were exploiting the system) and most of our clients(mostly by overcharging for labor) for millions I simply quit.

I would've brought them to justice but I never had any hard proof, just glimpse of papers, words from phone conversations and the like.

 

I had some very nice contacts in the industry too so it was hard for me to leave. :)

Edited by astr0creep
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If you don't want to fight, don't join the military.

 

The issue isn't that he doesn't want to fight, in fact he seemed quite happy to fight when he thought the war just. The issue is that he believes the war to be illegal.

 

If you thought your boss was involved in illegal activities that could damage the company and it's employees, would you do nothing with the reasoning that you take your paycheck so it doesn't matter whether you think it's illegal or not?

Sorry Kitty, it does not work that way in the military. The day he swore his oath and put on his uniform he gave up the right to make moral distinctions. He swore to uphold and defend the constitution of the US and bear true faith and service to the same. He also swore to obey the orders of the President and his superior officers. The war, you can argue might be morally wrong but it is authorized by congress so it is nothing if not legal. therfore he is compelled to go if ordered to do so.

 

It has long been held and upheld that a member of the US armed forces cannot be ordered to do something that violates the UCMJ (military law). So if his CO orders him to shoot an unarmed prisoner and he refuses then he is morally and legally correct and will not, in the long run, suffer any legal consequences. But in this case the order to go to Iraq is legal and he can obey or go to prison.

"While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before"

Thomas Sowell

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It's a tough decision - but I would have to agree with you GD .. Since there's nothing illegal about this war he can't refuse - if soldiers were allowed to make descisions based on their own morals - in wether or not to follow an order, which is legal, the military would fall apart.

Fortune favors the bald.

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questions of the legality of the iraq war have always amused me. the US is not bound by any "international law" that says who we may or may not start a war with. furthermore, the concept of an "illegal" war is rather silly anyway. war is nothing more than one country being mad at another. japan felt justified in their attack on the US during WWII (based on a variety of slights) and the US response was likewise justifiable to the US. the simple act of saddam ordering his forces to fire on US planes is an "act of war" defined by the treaties he signed after the first invasion, so what constitutes a "legal" response? war.

 

to think that war can be regulated in any fashion is naive at best. does a vote by a body of unelected officials somehow make a war "legal" in any way?

 

taks

comrade taks... just because.

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You took the words out of my PC, taks.

 

The solider (who will probably end up on the talk-show and thence onto the lecture circuits as the liberals take up his splash of fame as a cause-c

OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS

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OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT

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exactly. when concerning matters of war, like it or not, personal beliefs regarding justifiability are immaterial. people such as sand/visceris/nomdujour hate all war, which is understandable, but then use such personal beliefs to find any reason to call any war "illegal" without any real basis in reality. war is bad, nasty and undesirable, but as long as there are a variety of diverse cultures and societies in the world, it will exist.

 

taks

comrade taks... just because.

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Oh well, in times where there was no Internet, Radio or TV, soldiers would just go into battle and die proudly for country and supreme commander.

But now in the information era, everyone's mind gets so easily boggled when they hear gruesome news on TV that they would rather refuse to go to war, instead of obeying their warlords. Better telecommunications, more moral awareness.

Not that Bush & Co. were right with the decision to go to Iraq, but then again, they're not the first ones who made wrong decisions.... It's just that everybody whines about it, because they are informed to the last detail.

Edited by Morgoth
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that's for sure. hopefully, once such "awareness" spreads to remote corners of the world, such whining will no longer be necessary. unfortunately, this won't happen till we have a much more homegeneous world, which will take quite some time (i'm thinking centuries).

 

taks

comrade taks... just because.

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Not that Bush & Co. were right with the decision to go to Iraq, but then again, they're not the first ones who made wrong decisions.... It's just that everybody whines about it, because they are informed to the last detail.

 

And how wonderful that they do .. I think it's great that the American public is fed up with war - and since the President rule only by popular demand, he can't afford to go against them for very long.. (although Bush probably doesn't care right about now, since he won't be elected anyway) .. but imagine everyone hating the idea of armed conflict.. it would be a little more peaceful in this world.. not much though, but that's better than nothing.. I don't think we'll ever get rid of war, but at least we can minimize it.

Fortune favors the bald.

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Saddam Hussein didn't exactly handle the situation well. If he'd been willing to work with the UN, there would not have been a war. He gave the US a great opportunity to attack, and they took it. Why hasn't the US invaded Iran, Pakistan, or North Korea? It's not because they don't want to, and they've got WMD's (Iran is close), it's because those countries maintain some semblance of diplomacy and make some effort to appease the UN. Iraq didn't work with the UN, and the US took advantage.

 

Also, the US isn't trying to take over Iraq. They just want an Iraqi leadership that they can get along with. I think trying to force democracy upon the population is misguided, but it's not inherently evil.

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