Romances in NWN 2 and RPGs in general

[Azarkon]

Hey Josh, I just read over at the Bio boards that you disliked romances in RPGs. Would you mind sharing your reasoning as to why?

 

I'd also like to hear everyone else's opinions regarding why romances are bad in RPGs. I think I have a good grasp of why people like romances, but if you don't, I'd really be interested in knowing why.

Edited November 6, 2006 by Azarkon

[Volourn]

Simple. Most RPGers happen to be male, and males are conditioned that romances are icky (think romances in, movies, shows, books). Espicially geeky males who are already ashamed of their lack of manhood.

 

That's why most RPG gaming females tend to support them.

 

I like roamnces in RPGs; because they can *only* ADD to the role-playing.

 

[J.E. Sawyer]

They're almost universally poorly written, fumbling attempts at expressing intimacy from shallow characters in awkward and inappropriate situations to a character that attracts the NPC because GENDER=MALE.

[Pop]

They're almost universally poorly written, fumbling attempts at expressing intimacy from shallow characters in awkward and inappropriate situations to a character that attracts the NPC because GENDER=MALE.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you've never encountered a good RPG romance? I thought parts of the BG2 romances were really good.

[Darque]

I can sum up why I tend to view them negatively with three words and a two smileys:

 

Carth <_< and Anomen

[Gromnir]

in this, if nothing else, Gromnir and josh agree.

 

that being said, the Average Gamer seems to like'em, so in spite of fact that they comes off like banal teen soap opera, developers of crpgs is stuck with 'em. might as well do best you can.

 

we not mind romance. in point o' fact, Gromnir is a big fan o' romance as thematic fodder... but a tangential side-quest romance in a crpg is always gonna be too undeveloped to be fulfilling for Gromnir.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Azarkon]

Volourn: I think you'll find the amount of people who like romances, at least as represented by board posts, fairly even between men and women Otherwise, there wouldn't be so much outcry over Neeshka.

 

They're almost universally poorly written, fumbling attempts at expressing intimacy from shallow characters in awkward and inappropriate situations to a character that attracts the NPC because GENDER=MALE.

 

I find myself agreeing, in principle, yet when I look back I can't say that I've disliked them. When I first played BG 2 and experienced the Bio romances, I should not have been impressed - but actually, I was. Simply because it was something I've never seen in games before, and the dramatic possibilities excited me on a visceral level. Little did I know then that I was witnessing the birth, death, and fossilization of Western RPG romances, all in the same moment, as nothing was ever done of this potential.

 

So, perhaps a better question would be - given that RPG romances are, at the moment, so poorly developed, do you think there can ever be good romances in RPGs?

Edited November 6, 2006 by Azarkon

[Volourn]

Azarkon, I doubt percentage wise; it's the same.

 

And, as for quality of writing. I think the quality of writing in RPG romances is about the same as the overall writing in RPGs. Don't think the quality is any better or worse.

[The Named One]

Interesting thread. I can't say I've experienced romances in games beyond BG2 and PST, and I've always thought the next LOVETALK was another thing to look forward to. But as I think I read somewhere that Chris Avellone said, a fleeting, never truly expressed romance is the best of all (a bit like that romance on werewolf island in TOSC ).

 

I really can't think of a romance in any other game I've played except the obligatory romances in all FF games 7 onwards.

 

Incidentally, are there romances in NWN2? Anyone experienced one yet? Is it any good?

[kirottu]

They're almost universally poorly written, fumbling attempts at expressing intimacy from shallow characters in awkward and inappropriate situations to a character that attracts the NPC because GENDER=MALE.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Mmm, harem anime.

[Jorian Drake]

They're almost universally poorly written, fumbling attempts at expressing intimacy from shallow characters in awkward and inappropriate situations to a character that attracts the NPC because GENDER=MALE.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

read forums on bioware, you can see many female players post.

Heck, it's the 21st century

 

 

EDIT: and about romances, I love them, atleast if they are somewhat plausible, of course the 'emotional increase' has to be much faster than in RL so it happens at all in the timeframe of the game.

Edited November 6, 2006 by jorian

[jaguars4ever]

I can sum up why I tend to view them negatively with three words and a two smileys:

 

Carth  <_< and Anomen

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wait 'till you get a hold of Disciple. Apparently he's even worse.

[alanschu]

They're almost universally poorly written, fumbling attempts at expressing intimacy from shallow characters in awkward and inappropriate situations to a character that attracts the NPC because GENDER=MALE.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

read forums on bioware, you can see many female players post.

Heck, it's the 21st century

 

 

EDIT: and about romances, I love them, atleast if they are somewhat plausible, of course the 'emotional increase' has to be much faster than in RL so it happens at all in the timeframe of the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

He's not talking about the people that play the game when he says GENDER=MALE.

[Jorian Drake]

They're almost universally poorly written, fumbling attempts at expressing intimacy from shallow characters in awkward and inappropriate situations to a character that attracts the NPC because GENDER=MALE.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

read forums on bioware, you can see many female players post.

Heck, it's the 21st century

 

 

EDIT: and about romances, I love them, atleast if they are somewhat plausible, of course the 'emotional increase' has to be much faster than in RL so it happens at all in the timeframe of the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

He's not talking about the people that play the game when he says GENDER=MALE.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

a character that attracts the NPC because GENDER=MALE.

 

 

Ah yes?

[The Named One]

He means because the character is male. He would have the same problem where the males fall for the female character because GENDER=FEMALE

 

At least with Viconia it starts off quite shallow "You have the musculature that drives women wild" or somesuch.

Edited November 6, 2006 by The Named One

[Gorgon]

"They're almost universally poorly written, fumbling attempts at expressing intimacy from shallow characters in awkward and inappropriate situations to a character that attracts the NPC because GENDER=MALE"

 

It would seem to me that it falls on people like you to make sure the characters aren't shallow and the situations not inappropriate.

 

How about making one that turns from heated romance, to cheating and bitter jealousy, and then divorce and custody battle.

Edited November 6, 2006 by Gorgon

[Jorian Drake]

He means because the character is male.

 

At least with Viconia it starts off quite shallow "You have the musculature that drives women wild" or somesuch.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

and becouse the character is male, the romance has to be shallow?

 

what's this about genders anyway?

Equally GOOD quality romances for both! <_<

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

More pr0n? ? ?

[Jorian Drake]

More pr0n? ? ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think I have to shoot you.

[Plano Skywalker]

I roleplay for the complete sense of immersion that an RPG experience has the potential to bring. As such, romances are a part of that and I rather like them in RPGs. The problem is that they are little more than teasers in their current state.

There needs to be more cause/effect to them.

 

K2 had it so where if you talked to Visas at length, you couldn't train Brianna to be a Jedi. That is good. However, there would have, ideally, been a way to talk your way out of the doghouse with Brianna, especially if you stopped talking to Visas. Like all NPC interactions with the PC, they just aren't organic enough.

 

We are starting to see the ability to get married in open-ended RPGs (i.e. Fable), which is good. Thing is, there is no reason why the romance has to be with a fellow adventurer. As Mal on Firefly said "shipboard romances complicate things".

 

I like how, in the game Pirates!, your spouse becomes your informant when you are in port.

 

Anyway, linear RPGs need to start incorporating some of these other aspects into the romances, I believe.

[The Named One]

He means because the character is male.

 

At least with Viconia it starts off quite shallow "You have the musculature that drives women wild" or somesuch.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

and becouse the character is male, the romance has to be shallow?

 

what's this about genders anyway?

Equally GOOD quality romances for both! <_<

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Before I make a fool of myself by explaining this, is this guy the forum satirist or something? Is he being serious?

[Jorian Drake]

He means because the character is male.

 

At least with Viconia it starts off quite shallow "You have the musculature that drives women wild" or somesuch.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

and becouse the character is male, the romance has to be shallow?

 

what's this about genders anyway?

Equally GOOD quality romances for both! <_<

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Before I make a fool of myself by explaining this, is this guy the forum satirist or something? Is he being serious?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What are you talking about

[kirottu]

He means because the character is male.

 

At least with Viconia it starts off quite shallow "You have the musculature that drives women wild" or somesuch.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

and becouse the character is male, the romance has to be shallow?

 

what's this about genders anyway?

Equally GOOD quality romances for both! <_<

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Before I make a fool of myself by explaining this, is this guy the forum satirist or something? Is he being serious?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Just bad with english.

[The Named One]

Right. My understanding is that Josh's problem with romances is that they are arbitrary and shallow ie that because your character = a certain gender they will romance you. He used gender=male as an example of how binary romances are but he might as well have said gender=female. There's no argument here about quality of romances for different genders. My point about the Viconia romance was that there are no pretenses of depth at the start, that she fancied you because she thought your body was attractive, which is what it probably what it beleivably would be. Yes it was binary, but it wasn't based on non-existant personality traits.

Edited November 6, 2006 by The Named One

[Pidesco]

@Josh: Do you think the writing for CRPGs' romances is worse than everything else that's written for CRPGs?