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Volourn

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Grim Fandango being as high as it is on the list gets my seal of approval. Harkens back to a time when LucasArts didn't suck quite so hard, and adventure games were... well, they were still on the decline, but they weren't entirely dead yet, at least :)

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Suikoden II is not, in any way better than Grim Fandango.

 

The story is of Squaresoft quality.

 

I didn't finish it, but is it that bad?

 

*waits for Oerwinde*

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JE wasn't a D&D type game. You are thinking in that archetype of game. Everyone should have realized going in that while JE *is* a role-playing game (depsite the RT combat) that there would be limits (like 99% of RPGs) and that you would be 'forced' to role-play some sort of martial artist. That said, you could effectively play a mage if you so wished though some battles would have forced you to chnage it up a bit (just like some enemies in D&D are also immune to spells).

 

No. In every combat with multiple enemies my mana finished before enemies. The combat skills were poorly balanced.

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I never had a problem with that with my mage character. In my builds I would start off putting all points in magic then ever three levels do the same. All otther levels I spread on a one point each. I focused on 2 to 3 "magic" styles (Ice Shard being my favorite), a support style (usually Heavenly Wave), 1 weapon style (the sword is my favorite as well), and one martial style (one of the faster styles like Thousand Cuts). If you do a harmonic combo with Ice Shard you gain a Blue Orb nearly every single time. This constant influx of Blue orbs kept me in Mana to take on a lot of different beasts with magic.

 

Maybe you just weren't playing strategically enough. :)

Edited by Judge Hades
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If Jagged Alliance 2 isn't number one then the knowledge of the listmakers is obviously called into a great deal of question, making all other arguments moot.

Don't hold yr breath, sister. JA didn't even crack the top 100 in last year's list. KotOR and other popular titles are similarly absent.

 

Pretty silly stuff, these lists. Fun but arbitrary and inevitably dumb.

 

The 2005 top 20 includes arcade greats such as Ms. Pacman. The original title didn't make the list -- nor did Asteroids, Space Invaders or Pong. I suppose they weren't nearly as groundbreaking as Pacman's Ms. edition.

 

Also, as far as I can tell not a single PC RPG made last year's top twenty. RPGs on the 2005 top 100 include Fallout (55), BGII (25) and the rpg-hybrid Deus Ex (21).

 

 

Grim Fandango being as high as it is on the list gets my seal of approval. 

I concur. It's smart, funny & original. It's a top five pick on the only list that matters.

Edited by blue
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Indeed, I agree with all of the prior points. The Oriental theme is window dressing at best, merely attempting to mask the good vs. evil medieval cliche. At least, they could have attempted to adhere to a more Daoist philosophy, considering they used yin-yang quite often in the imagery. I would have preferred greater variety in character creation, though I can understand their decision to go another direction. However, the limited aspects of advancement and the completely ****ed up combat system (Balance=No) pretty much ruined it.

 

However, my main complaint with JE is the quality of writing. The dialogue and such was for the most part very good, but the narrative itself left a great deal to be desired, in my opinion. Particularly the way they belabored the

"flaw in your technique"

on almost every single story fight. Anyone who's seen a few kung fu movies could figure out the plot from maybe 10-30 minutes in.

 

 

P.S. A harmonic combo was a shallow attempt by Bioware to extend the fighting system by giving you several style combinations to gain special effect Insta-kills.

Ex: Use Ice shard to freeze an enemy then a martial style to shatter them.

 

Enemies also tended to drop more HP/MP/etc orbs when killed in this fashion. People tended either to not know about them, spam them, or intentionally avoid them due to the cheapness.

Edited by Archmonarch

And I find it kind of funny

I find it kind of sad

The dreams in which I'm dying

Are the best I've ever had

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:)

 

You got to be kidding me. That is one of the major facets of the game. Kirottu, you suppose to be better than me in gaming.

 

:)

 

Okay, some martial skills have Harmonic Combos while others do not. You first do the attack that breaks the blocking of an opponent using either an Support or Magic style first. You will see a Yellow timer going around the highlighted enemy. You then use a martial or weapon style that copletes the harmonic combo block breaker attack. If successful the enemy dies in a spectacular fashion and you will get an orb based on the combination of attacks you used.

 

Not all martial styles have Hamonic Combos so you need to read up on their entries.

Edited by Judge Hades
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Indeed, I agree with all of the prior points. The Oriental theme is window dressing at best, merely attempting to mask the good vs. evil medieval cliche. At least, they could have attempted to adhere to a more Daoist philosophy, considering they used yin-yang quite often in the imagery. I would have preferred greater variety in character creation, though I can understand their decision to go another direction. However, the limited aspects of advancement and the completely ****ed up combat system (Balance=No) pretty much ruined it.

 

However, my main complaint with JE is the quality of writing. The dialogue and such was for the most part very good, but the narrative itself left a great deal to be desired, in my opinion. Particularly the way they belabored the

"flaw in your technique"

on almost every single story fight. Anyone who's seen a few kung fu movies could figure out the plot from maybe 10-30 minutes in.

 

Yeah, Bioware writers don't seem to know how to properly use "foreshadow" in their games.

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:)

 

You got to be kidding me.  That is one of the major facets of the game.  Kirottu, you suppose to be better than me in gaming. 

 

:)

 

Okay, some martial skills have Harmonic Combos while others do not.  You first do the attack that breaks the blocking of an opponent using either an Support or Magic style first.  You will see a Yellow timer going around the highlighted enemy.  You then use a martial or weapon style that copletes the harmonic combo block breaker attack.  If successful the enemy dies in a  spectacular fashion and you will get an orb based on the combination of attacks you used.

 

Not all martial styles have Hamonic Combos so you need to read up on their entries.

 

So the ice would be pretty much perfect for harmonic combo... Hmm... If I could play combat as mage character I most likely would finish JE. It

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Funnily enough, I didn't discover harmonic combos until fairly late game - right around when you get super-unbalanced transformations. I still thought the game was damned easy.

 

But then, I had chosen a more combat-oriented character because I had suspected that magic wouldn't be exactly 'deep' in this game, and melee combat would always get more of a focus.

 

Volourn, exactly what elements of the plot or the underlying philosophies of the game were any different from nomral high fantasy? This of course doesn't debate the merits of JE itself, but rather I think explains the fact that JE's world hasn't been, and will not be, nearly as inspirational for intertextual works as has been other original works, because 1/ it's not original, 2/ and it's not any better than what came before, either. Sort of like Fable (but better than THAT, by God.)

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Indeed, I agree with all of the prior points. The Oriental theme is window dressing at best, merely attempting to mask the good vs. evil medieval cliche. At least, they could have attempted to adhere to a more Daoist philosophy, considering they used yin-yang quite often in the imagery. I would have preferred greater variety in character creation, though I can understand their decision to go another direction. However, the limited aspects of advancement and the completely ****ed up combat system (Balance=No) pretty much ruined it.

 

However, my main complaint with JE is the quality of writing. The dialogue and such was for the most part very good, but the narrative itself left a great deal to be desired, in my opinion. Particularly the way they belabored the

"flaw in your technique"

on almost every single story fight. Anyone who's seen a few kung fu movies could figure out the plot from maybe 10-30 minutes in.

 

Yeah, Bioware writers don't seem to know how to properly use "foreshadow" in their games.

Oh well. We all know BioWare believes a mind is like an electrical circuit. It works best when its, mm... turned off?

Edited by Tel Aviv
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^ ;)

 

Am I the only one wondering how Hades was able to pull off eight harmonic combos in a row while delicately strafing out of the way of the resulting powerups?

 

I hesitate to dredge it up again, but that ever-lovin' werewolf shouldn't have posed a challenge to someone capable of such feats of manual dexterity.

baby, take off your beret

everyone's a critic and most people are DJs

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He was also talking as if he knew the rules of WoD when it came to the werewolf (which I took at face value, assume he did have experience with werewolves in the WoD), only to have Spider come in and enlighten us to the actual characteristics of the werewolf in WoD, which did not coincide with Hades' expectations.

 

I'd suggest taking his claims with a grain of salt.

Edited by alanschu
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When the game is released on the PC I'll post pics. :D I will ned to get a game controller than use the keyboard and mouse. I have figured that in action oriented games like Jade Empire, Bloodlines, and Oblivion I am far better with a game pad than I am with a keyboard and mouse.

 

Also, I never said I knew the rules of WoD, just that I knew they were all in the same setting so I assumed that they would be balanced like other cross setting material that I have experience with (like d20 and GURPS).

Edited by Judge Hades
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[sOME SPOILERS!!!!!!!!]

 

 

 

 

I'd say the plot of JE was a lot like the plot of KOTOR:

 

* Chosen One (protagonist).

 

* Evil Anamoly is the big baddie.

 

* Evil has a masked lieutenant.

 

* Major Betrayal from a trusted friend.

 

* Foreshadowing on a silver platter.

 

 

 

I agree that the actual dialogues and story bits were very well done. But the overarching story was quite familiar.

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That's because, b y and large, trying to have a secret plot twist is not good because pretty much anyone would figure out whatever twist it is. Plot twists are done way so much that unless the twist is illogical and out of left field, it is likely to be obvious unless you haven't played much games, read much books, watched much movies, tv, and whatever.

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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That's a good point, Volourn, but in my personal experience I could anticipate both the twist in KOTOR(1) and JE, and felt the former still had some quality anyway, and the narrative did not suffer too much from my already guessing it. My reaction to the guess was "If I *am* Revan.. well, interesting. Let's see what they do with it." With JE, it was the first covnersation with your mentor.. "Oh God, this will be silly." Which it was. :wub:

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