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Mr. Sawyer Owns Us All With NWN2!!!


Volourn

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"but the meat of dialogs and roleplaying is done by no other than MMCATA!!!! "

 

I believe MCA focused mainly on the joinable npcs. The other writing like the main story was done by others, I believe though I'm sure as a boss MCA had say on it.

 

 

"Good ol' King Volourn. *sigh* Those were the days."

 

Heh. King Volourn only existed during the time of my wars with the overseer/Mr. Sawyer when I got banned after literally begging to be. :lol:

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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I don't think NWN2 will fail just because Sawyer's the lead designer.

grom's not saying NWN2 will fail because of sawyer (he's not even saying it will fail). he's simply saying that any problems that crop up with NWN2 will likely land on sawyer's shoulders due to the curse.

 

taks

comrade taks... just because.

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I actually do think the game is fun and I really do think the game does have some problems that will need to be addressed in a patch/some patches. There's also stuff in the game that I wouldn't have done, but that I don't find too objectionable (like forcing certain CNPCs into your party in some areas).

 

At a very low level, there's engine "stuff" I don't like that goes way, way back to Bio's original engine that runs from game logic through data formats. The only way to really address those would be to thoroughly gut all of those subsystems and re-write them. That was one of the big foci of IWD2. It wasn't really the focus of NWN2. Then again, I think a lot of people will probably enjoy NWN2 a lot more than IWD2 because most people don't care that much details of rule implementation and data limitations.

 

that being said, josh does interact with community far more than does any other bis/obsidian developer.  more important, josh gives feedback that is actually meaningful.  lose temper on occasion?  fine.  adds a little flavor to community goulash... am s'posing that josh gets to be the hungarian paprika.

My grandfather loved making Hungarian goulash. Probably because he was Donauschwaben.

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I actually do think the game is fun and I really do think the game does have some problems that will need to be addressed in a patch/some patches.  There's also stuff in the game that I wouldn't have done, but that I don't find too objectionable (like forcing certain CNPCs into your party in some areas).

 

At a very low level, there's engine "stuff" I don't like that goes way, way back to Bio's original engine that runs from game logic through data formats.  The only way to really address those would be to thoroughly gut all of those subsystems and re-write them.  That was one of the big foci of IWD2.  It wasn't really the focus of NWN2.  Then again, I think a lot of people will probably enjoy NWN2 a lot more than IWD2 because most people don't care that much details of rule implementation and data limitations.

 

that being said, josh does interact with community far more than does any other bis/obsidian developer.  more important, josh gives feedback that is actually meaningful.  lose temper on occasion?  fine.  adds a little flavor to community goulash... am s'posing that josh gets to be the hungarian paprika.

My grandfather loved making Hungarian goulash. Probably because he was Donauschwaben.

 

I understand that NDA's and such may make you unable to talk about technology on that level, but I am certainly curious about the things you disliked about the logic and data formats, or anything else,. Why such changes would be made, what would be gained from the changes etc...

 

Being a coder and a developer I've always found that designers don't grasp coding fully and why things are done the way they are done, this no way implies that you don't.

RS_Silvestri_01.jpg

 

"I'm a programmer at a games company... REET GOOD!" - Me

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Here are a couple of examples:

 

* Very few effects are tagged with a bonus "type" in line with 3E/3.5 conventions. E.g.: enhancement bonuses vs. morale bonuses vs. size bonuses. There's also no central stacking logic in place to handle that stuff even if the data were present and marked properly. This is why stacking seems so confusing and/or broken at times in the engine. Identical bonuses usually won't stack with each other, but that's sometimes handled in script as opposed to code. E.g.: bull's strength won't stack with another bull's strength, but bull's strength would stack with a belt of giant strength (used to, anyway).

 

Revising and centralizing the stacking logic and associating all effects with bonus types would allow for finer control over general balance.

 

* The primary method for defining basic spell data is done in spells.2da. This is an extraordinarily large array of data covering all spells for all classes/special abilities that aren't hard-coded. There are a number of columns in spells.2da that define what level the spell is for a certain class: bard, cleric, druid, paladin, ranger, sorcerer/wizard, and (I think) warlock. These columns are all accounted for in code as well, meaning that you can't simply create new spell lists for new base or prestige classes. This is why, for instance, blackguards and assassins don't have their own spell lists.

 

One could revise this data structure so spell lists were external .2das referenced by classes.2da, bypassing the definitions in spells.2da entirely. The code would reference whatever classes.2da gave to it for a spell list .2da, allowing for virtually infinite custom spell lists on a per-class basis. The only loss would be the ability to see, at a glance, all of the classes that had access to a given spell. But really, when you can open multiple .2das at once in Excel and search between them, that's not a significant negative.

 

What the hell is Sawyers avatar? It looks like a woman with a spine coming out of her chest.

It's Joanna Newsom tuning her harp before a show.

 

joannatuningharp.png

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Here are a couple of examples:

 

* Very few effects are tagged with a bonus "type" in line with 3E/3.5 conventions.  E.g.: enhancement bonuses vs. morale bonuses vs. size bonuses.  There's also no central stacking logic in place to handle that stuff even if the data were present and marked properly.  This is why stacking seems so confusing and/or broken at times in the engine.  Identical bonuses usually won't stack with each other, but that's sometimes handled in script as opposed to code.  E.g.: bull's strength won't stack with another bull's strength, but bull's strength would stack with a belt of giant strength (used to, anyway).

 

Revising and centralizing the stacking logic and associating all effects with bonus types would allow for finer control over general balance.

 

* The primary method for defining basic spell data is done in spells.2da.  This is an extraordinarily large array of data covering all spells for all classes/special abilities that aren't hard-coded.  There are a number of columns in spells.2da that define what level the spell is for a certain class: bard, cleric, druid, paladin, ranger, sorcerer/wizard, and (I think) warlock.  These columns are all accounted for in code as well, meaning that you can't simply create new spell lists for new base or prestige classes.  This is why, for instance, blackguards and assassins don't have their own spell lists.

 

One could revise this data structure so spell lists were external .2das referenced by classes.2da, bypassing the definitions in spells.2da entirely.  The code would reference whatever classes.2da gave to it for a spell list .2da, allowing for virtually infinite custom spell lists on a per-class basis.  The only loss would be the ability to see, at a glance, all of the classes that had access to a given spell.  But really, when you can open multiple .2das at once in Excel and search between them, that's not a significant negative.

 

What the hell is Sawyers avatar? It looks like a woman with a spine coming out of her chest.

It's Joanna Newsom tuning her harp before a show.

 

joannatuningharp.png

 

Thanks for that Josh, that's rather interesting.

 

These appear to be issues that cropped up due to the fact that naturally you've spent a hell of alot of time scripting with the engine, adding content etc...

 

When Obsidian first announced NWN2, I actually suggested that a tool be created to help manage .2da, perhaps along with some integration with the editor, this is naturally a headache from a coders POV. I suppose that a .2da editor could deal with files in the manner of seperating them out into a structure, like you've spoken of, and then basically output a larger .2da, as a tool for designers that would most likely have been extremely useful, and perhaps the modding community would also find use in that...

 

Anyways thanks for the feedback, you've given me an idea!

Edited by @\NightandtheShape/@

RS_Silvestri_01.jpg

 

"I'm a programmer at a games company... REET GOOD!" - Me

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What are these issues that need to be addressed by pathches? Do they relate to the official campaign or to other aspects of the game? Are they bugs? Unbalanced gameplay? Or just ****ty design for some areas? If its bad design then what exactly are the problems with the way that these areas have been designed?

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What are these issues that need to be addressed by pathches? Do they relate to the official campaign or to other aspects of the game? Are they bugs? Unbalanced gameplay? Or just ****ty design for some areas? If its bad design then what exactly are the problems with the way that these areas have been designed?

Camera and movement controls, which are notoriously difficult to tune to the satisfaction of a wide assortment of players. There are some genuine balance bugs, but we've noticed a lot of those already. D&D has a lot of ROOLZ, so there's a lot of stuff that can be broken/poorly balanced/wrong. The toolset also needs some fixes simply for ease of use, which has been a big complaint for many people.

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I think the project is in good hands :) NWN2 will not suffer for Mr. Sawyer's patronage. What I think Gromnir was trying to say (that if there are problems they'll be unfairly heaped on Sawyer?) is valid, but it's nothing to worry about right now.

 

I'd also like to thank Mr. Sawyer for being around and interacting with the native fauna. Without him I'd be ****in' nowhere in my Fallout game :D

 

I'll be interested to see how this new project he's working on is, and how it turns out. But that's awhile off I guess.

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I actually do think the game is fun and I really do think the game does have some problems that will need to be addressed in a patch/some patches.  There's also stuff in the game that I wouldn't have done, but that I don't find too objectionable (like forcing certain CNPCs into your party in some areas).

 

At a very low level, there's engine "stuff" I don't like that goes way, way back to Bio's original engine that runs from game logic through data formats.  The only way to really address those would be to thoroughly gut all of those subsystems and re-write them.  That was one of the big foci of IWD2.  It wasn't really the focus of NWN2.  Then again, I think a lot of people will probably enjoy NWN2 a lot more than IWD2 because most people don't care that much details of rule implementation and data limitations.

 

that being said, josh does interact with community far more than does any other bis/obsidian developer.  more important, josh gives feedback that is actually meaningful.  lose temper on occasion?  fine.  adds a little flavor to community goulash... am s'posing that josh gets to be the hungarian paprika.

My grandfather loved making Hungarian goulash. Probably because he was Donauschwaben.

 

Hmmm...I'm getting hungry again, gonna eat some goulash out of the frig :p

 

....so, are you a part hungarian too? :)

IB1OsQq.png

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What are these issues that need to be addressed by pathches? Do they relate to the official campaign or to other aspects of the game? Are they bugs? Unbalanced gameplay? Or just ****ty design for some areas? If its bad design then what exactly are the problems with the way that these areas have been designed?

Camera and movement controls, which are notoriously difficult to tune to the satisfaction of a wide assortment of players. There are some genuine balance bugs, but we've noticed a lot of those already. D&D has a lot of ROOLZ, so there's a lot of stuff that can be broken/poorly balanced/wrong. The toolset also needs some fixes simply for ease of use, which has been a big complaint for many people.

 

Your honesty is appriciated. Thank you.

"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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JE's frankness is always appreciated. Its quite rare.

Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
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  Then again, I think a lot of people will probably enjoy NWN2 a lot more than IWD2 because most people don't care that much details of rule implementation and data limitations.

 

 

I think we have someone here who would care greatly about proper rule implementation. He's rule crazy. :)

2010spaceships.jpg

Hades was the life of the party. RIP You'll be missed.

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...I really hates that word "patches"...makes me sad I already preordered the LE... :)

 

 

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

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A long, long time ago, but I can still remember,
How the Trolling used to make me smile.
And I knew if I had my chance, I could egg on a few Trolls to "dance",
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But then Krackhead left and so did Klown;
Volo and Turnip were banned, Mystake got run out o' town.
Bad news on the Front Page,
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I can't remember if I cried
When I heard that TORN was recently fried,
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The day...Black Isle died.


For tarna, Visc, an' the rest o' the ol' Islanders that fell along the way

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Hmmm...I'm getting hungry again, gonna eat some goulash out of the frig  :p

 

....so, are you a part hungarian too?  :)

It's a difficult question to answer. My great-grandfather came to the United States from Hungary, but the family was entirely descended from Donauschwaben migrants coming out of Baden-W

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