Wrath of Dagon Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 'course you is also the guy who ain't seen mainstream game graphics you likes better than aod, so is some questions regarding your honesty/taste/sanity. This is why it's useless to answer your rambling rants. I'm through talking to you. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 I can see defending "lesser" graphics as stylized vs realistic. Somestimes sytlized is a lot more interesting. If stylized art didn't have a place cartoons and comics wouldn't be so popular. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath of Dagon Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 That's exactly what I was thinking. You can't compare a cartoon to a movie and claim the movie is better. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 I can see defending "lesser" graphics as stylized vs realistic. Somestimes sytlized is a lot more interesting. If stylized art didn't have a place cartoons and comics wouldn't be so popular. come now. is a terrible argument. particularly as you is simply throwing Gromnir qualifier back at him. wrath is talking 'bout artistic value within the medium and is using industry-wide as measure. is not suggesting that old skool 2d looks kewl compared to 3d. is saying that the low budget 3d efforts o' iron tower exceeds any mainstream games he can care to name. is you honest defending? really? can Gromnir conceive o' a 3d game that is low budget but blows EVERY other mainstream effort out of the water? sure we can... as a hypothetical. unfortunate we ain' t talking hypo are we cg? we got aod screenies. you honestly think that aod holds up compared to every mainstream game insofar as graphics is concerned? HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristes Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 If you can provide higher resolution screenies, that might help, bro. The screen shots I see here are neither stylized nor conventionally appealing. They're pretty lackluster all around. When I think of something 'stylized,' I think of something that conveys an exotic or unusual artistic direction in order to underscore the 'style' of the work. There's nothing really stylistic about the screenies. The writing doesn't seem bad. About on par with some games, so I can say I might purchase the game. Is it out already. I read through the thread and noticed that the first few pages are really old. A lot of posts seemed to be about Volourn. The latter half seems to be more of a philosophical discussion regarding indie vs commercial game development. I find it interesting, but now I'm confused as to the release date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llyranor Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 AoD isn't stylized, it's just ugly 3d. Okami is stylized. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 you honestly think that aod holds up compared to every mainstream game insofar as graphics is concerned? No, I don't. True. But there is a subjective qualty to enjoyment of art. For example, I do think Fallout 1's 2-d 256 color graphics are "better" than FO3's nextgen 3d stuff. Are they as realistic or detailed as FO3's graphics? NO, of course not. SO if one gets enjoyment from realism and detail, of course one will find FO3's graphics far superior. But realism and detail are only 2 of many possible values art may hold. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Considering the limitations of the engine and considering that this is the first project of an indie developer, I think it looks very solid. Making 3D art that looks great takes years of practice to develop. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath of Dagon Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Yeah, Braid graphics suck compared to every other high def warehouse game (Brian Mitsoda's term). And they're 2D, lolz. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 I didn't read through all the posts, but right now I'm playing Mount & Blade, which is fairly inferior in the graphics department. But I'm loving the gameplay! I believe it has also managed some success from a business standpoint, but I don't have any numbers to back that up. Braid is different, it is purposefully stylized to look like that. AoC and M&B would both probably be happy to look a lot better if given the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Kitty Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 (edited) Braid is different, it is purposefully stylized to look like that. Yeah, I'm kinda confused what people are arguing here. If people think AoD is stylized, then just what style is it exactly? It seems like people are using "realistic" and "stylized" when perhaps they might actually mean "photo realistic" and "not photo realistic". A low level of detail does not make something stylised. Personally I don't think the graphics in AoD are bad, but I also don't think they are in any way appealing. They're purely functional, which certainly isn't a positive. Edited June 15, 2009 by Hell Kitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlus Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Is it out already. It isn't. The combat demo should be out sometime soon, though. It's been delayed, the programmer was occupied with his dissertation, but it's all back on track now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath of Dagon Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Are TOR graphics stylized? "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Kitty Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Are TOR graphics stylized? What's TOR? I think "stylized" is far too broad a term. CG mentioned stylized images having a place in comics, but the truth is that comics, like games, feature many different styles. These images of Wolverine, for example, aren't in the same style: I tend to view graphics on a scale from "cartoonish" to "photo realistic" and even that is perhaps too simplistic. I personally prefer those on the realistic end of the scale. The problem with a game like AoD it that it's right in the middle of the scale, it's lacking in any real style. Like I said in the previous post, purely functional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 TOR is The Old Republic, the upcoming KotOR MMO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth InSidious Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 This is bad writing? Yes. The first one is rambling (incidentally, "determination" takes "in" as its negation), not terribly coherent and over-the-top. The second is just banal, and the occasionally unusual constructions are badly employed. The effect is clunking. This particularly rapid, unintelligible patter isn't generally heard, and if it is, it doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Kitty Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Something I don't understand about those two shots, why do we get descriptions of the characters in their dialogue windows? Do we automatically know the life story of every NPC we talk to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlus Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Something I don't understand about those two shots, why do we get descriptions of the characters in their dialogue windows? Do we automatically know the life story of every NPC we talk to? In Vince's words: Clearly, anyone who read Ceasar's Commentaries or heard about Pullo and Vorenus heroic exploits from other soldiers or in taverns, would know something about them. So, the game's introductions are what you've heard about these characters. BTW. There's a vote on the introductions. If you think they are unnecessary for some reason, go voice your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristes Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 The problem with the two snippets is that Wrathie posted them as examples of the great writing. If you took them as just two snippets of the writing in the game, they're fairly middle of the road. Writing in CRPGs is generally bad anyhow. And Wrath is right when he says that some great games, such as PS:T, have patches of less than stellar writing. However, I'm willing to give the writing a break because that's what I generally end up doing for other games. I applaud the person who envisioned and created AoD. It's really great to have someone put his money where his mouth is. On the other hand, if you're going to put your money where your mouth is, you're going to face detractors. Even large commercial projects face criticism. The larger your claims, the more criticism you will face and the more criticism you should face. You should face more scrutiny. It's certainly better than making fantastic claims and having no discussion at all. You can't have it both ways. Either you should be judged as a viable alternative to commercial developers, in which case every aspect of your product is fair game for comparison, or you should be applauded for coming out with a great little indie game and nothing more. Once you tout your game as a viable competitor on the scene, you should be subject to every sort of criticism that faces other products of the same type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Considering the limitations of the engine and considering that this is the first project of an indie developer, I think it looks very solid. Making 3D art that looks great takes years of practice to develop. if that were what wrath were saying, then am doubtful you would see and disagreement... save from a few serious graphics snobs. and once again let us please keep in mind that Gromnir ain't suggested that he thinks aod will suck... am asking why folks like wrath is sooooo enthusiastic. graphics? wrath keeps trying to convince us that graphics is stellar. HA! writing? as aristes points out, the Fantabulous examples wrath came up with were pretty damned pedestrian. is tough to judge game writing based on a couple o' snippets lifted w/o context, so is not as if game is doomed 'cause o' wrath examples, but is no reason to applaud nether. combat? wrath notes that a combat demo is forthcoming, so is tough to be excited as yet. etc. the only reason we can figure that people is current enthusiastic 'bout the game is based on fact that vd claims he is gonna do better than everybody else... which is exact the same kinda promise every developer makes. wrath got faith. faith is a wonderful thing. good for wrath. the thing is that it is tough to argue when all you got is faith. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 VD hypes his game by saying it will be great because (in his case) it will be like Fallout or Torment or whatever and anything else is dumbed down Hollywood crap. So I can't blame him, every Creative lead needs attention and some antagonist to bash. But we will see if this stays true once the game is released. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhlaab Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 In any case, it's guaranteed to be the best turn based isometric rpg since 2001 since to my knowledge it IS the only one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 And because it is the only one, it's the best one! Riiiiiight. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 And because it is the only one, it's the best one! Riiiiiight. Victory by default, the best kind of victory.(also the saddest) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starwars Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Probably the only game I'm looking forward to where the design decisions really vibe with what I want in RPGs. It'll be interesting to see if Iron Tower can deliver on it. Looks very promising to my eyes. Listen to my home-made recordings (some original songs, some not): http://www.youtube.c...low=grid&view=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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