Vandar, a discrepancy?

[Plano Skywalker]

No, but we're not talking about continuity by canon - we're talking about what happens in the games, which is not the same.

<etc>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

OK, I admit, the games do try to make allowances for your choices and, since you can't export your game to the next one, it asks you.

 

That kind of continuity is different than CONTINUITY and it is nice to respect in-game continuity whenever they can.

 

However, the bottom line is that, unless we want extremely watered-down stories, some sort of hard coding is absolutely inevitable.

 

here is an example: Bastila is very much a part of the ongoing story yet it was possible to kill her in K1. what more does anyone need? the designers can and will hardcode when it makes sense to do so.

 

whether Vandar was an oversight or an intentional hardcode is a really good question, however. if it was intentional, it might suggest a desire to bring him back somehow in a future game.

[Jediphile]

here is an example:  Bastila is very much a part of the ongoing story yet it was possible to kill her in K1.  what more does anyone need?  the designers can and will hardcode when it makes sense to do so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, Bastila dying is acutally unlikely... You can only kill her if you choose LS, in which case you would be more likely to redeem her than to just kill her.

 

Besides, the devs presuming that is not a big stretch. I thought they were stretching it far more, when they concluded in K2 that the LS Revan had redeemed the spirit of Ajunta Pall - that was actually difficult in K1, since it required a pretty high Persuade skill! Even with Persuade 20+, I failed frequently...

[Plano Skywalker]

Well, Bastila dying is acutally unlikely... You can only kill her if you choose LS, in which case you would be more likely to redeem her than to just kill her.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

it is actually extremely easy to do...of course, you can always reload the game.

bottom line: not every outcome is respected, nor should it be in every case.

 

 

Besides, the devs presuming that is not a big stretch. I thought they were stretching it far more, when they concluded in K2 that the LS Revan had redeemed the spirit of Ajunta Pall - that was actually difficult in K1, since it required a pretty high Persuade skill! Even with Persuade 20+, I failed frequently...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

just more evidence that the storytellers are GOING to tell THEIR story.

[Jediphile]

Well, Bastila dying is acutally unlikely... You can only kill her if you choose LS, in which case you would be more likely to redeem her than to just kill her.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

it is actually extremely easy to do...of course, you can always reload the game.

bottom line: not every outcome is respected, nor should it be in every case.

 

 

Besides, the devs presuming that is not a big stretch. I thought they were stretching it far more, when they concluded in K2 that the LS Revan had redeemed the spirit of Ajunta Pall - that was actually difficult in K1, since it required a pretty high Persuade skill! Even with Persuade 20+, I failed frequently...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

just more evidence that the storytellers are GOING to tell THEIR story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It really didn't impact the story much - or at all - which is what really threw me. I mean, they could have simply chosen not to let Kreia mention it, and nobody would have said anything. I certainly wouldn't have raised an eyebrow, whereas having her mention it did. It would have made far more sense to mention that Revan brought down the sith academy by killing the leader, since you actually must do that in K1. It would also have made more sense to say that LS Revan redeemed Yuthura, since that is a likely - though not necessary - outcome of K1.

 

Ajunta Pall's redemption, however, had zero impact on the plot evolvement of either game.

[BattleCookiee]

I think the reason Bastila is there in the game despite her being killable is that probably OE played (and got the code ) of the unpatched PC/Retail X-Box Kotor1 where Bastila happily waved out the Republic in the end-sequence even if you wacked her on the Star Forge...

Edited March 11, 2006 by BattleCookiee

[Plano Skywalker]

I think the reason Bastila is there in the game despite her being killable is that probably OE played (and got the code  ) of the unpatched PC/Retail X-Box Kotor1 where Bastila happily waved out the Republic in the end-sequence even if you wacked her on the Star Forge...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

quite possibly....my point is the devs are always choosing between flexibility and strength of story....sometimes it's OK to choose strength of story.

[hawk]

I think the reason Bastila is there in the game despite her being killable is that probably OE played (and got the code  ) of the unpatched PC/Retail X-Box Kotor1 where Bastila happily waved out the Republic in the end-sequence even if you wacked her on the Star Forge...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

quite possibly....my point is the devs are always choosing between flexibility and strength of story....sometimes it's OK to choose strength of story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. I also wouldn't be surprised if Dustil Onasi makes it in Kotor III. Perhaps even as a party member. You could kill him yes, but then T3-M4's hologram shows Carth if Revan was DS female and plays a dialogue in which you must have got the romance quest with Carth and that he did try to save DSF Revan which is only possible if you have let Dustil alive.

[Jediphile]

I think the reason Bastila is there in the game despite her being killable is that probably OE played (and got the code  ) of the unpatched PC/Retail X-Box Kotor1 where Bastila happily waved out the Republic in the end-sequence even if you wacked her on the Star Forge...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

quite possibly....my point is the devs are always choosing between flexibility and strength of story....sometimes it's OK to choose strength of story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. I also wouldn't be surprised if Dustil Onasi makes it in Kotor III. Perhaps even as a party member. You could kill him yes, but then T3-M4's hologram shows Carth if Revan was DS female and plays a dialogue in which you must have got the romance quest with Carth and that he did try to save DSF Revan which is only possible if you have let Dustil alive.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, Dustil wasn't killed by K2, at least - he might have been planned to end up in a bad place in K2, but that was actually dropped so early that there aren't even any voice-files for it. So we can't call it cut content as much as a dropped idea.

 

As for how he ended up in K1, he too falls into the category of people - like Vandar, Atris, or companions like Jolee, Juhani, Mission, Zaalbar, Mira, Hanharr, etc. that may or may not have survived their games - that it is simply easier for a storywriter to drop, since their status is at best in question. It's much more convenient to just create new characters that serve the same purpose, since that won't annoy any of the players. Even now, we have people who set Revan to DS complaining over how the Star Forge was abandoned and similar. People want their own outcome of the previous game(s) to be the "correct" passage of history, and if you mess with that you lose customers. It's that simple.

 

Yes, story should always take priority, but I doubt we'll be seeing either Dustil or Atris again, since one didn't impact the story enough to matter and the other already had closure...

[Master_Vrook]

He was probably just mistaken and simply assumed Vandar went on the mission. Maybe he never got word about his ship being destroyed in the DS ending.

[Jediphile]

He was probably just mistaken and simply assumed Vandar went on the mission. Maybe he never got word about his ship being destroyed in the DS ending.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, I guess you would know...

[hawk]

He was probably just mistaken and simply assumed Vandar went on the mission. Maybe he never got word about his ship being destroyed in the DS ending.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, I guess you would know...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good one. He? You are talking to yourself.

 

I guess the Jedi masters are quiet ignorant aren't they:

 

Some exampels:

1) Vrook said that Vandar went on the mission to Katarr even when Revan went DS (if Vandar died that is).

2) Kavar and Zez Kai Ell said that Atris went to Katarr with the others

3) All three of them thought that Kreia died in the Mandalorians

 

Anyone can find more?

 

Well maybe:

4) The Jedi council refuse to hear the Exile when he/she returned from the Mandalorian Wars. In stead they exile him/her

5) After you collect 3 journals from those who did "The Great Hunt" you could be in time to go to Dantooine but Deesra isn't even interested in them, no dialog option.

6) Vrook, Zez Kai Ell and Kavar try to cut the Exile off from the force, again they refuse to hear him/her and ignore the immidiate threat in Nihilus who would have been succesful in consuming all life on Telos had they cut of the Exile.

Edited March 11, 2006 by hawk

[Master_Vrook]

They(I) were(was) disconnected from the rest of the remnants of the Jedi Vouncil, they were all scattered across different war-torn worlds and told not to meet until they gathered enough intelligence on the enemie's movements. If they were to gather or move, they would endanger any world that they settled on.

 

It's plausible they were misinformed, when we meet each of them in KOTOR II they were all pretty confounded.

Edited March 12, 2006 by Master_Vrook