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[Knights&Darths]

But if he was "born" after the use of the MSG then there wouldn't be Mandalorians left in the Republic

i'm sorry, what do you mean?

there never was a Mandalorian Force on Malachor V, or have you seen on a single place hints that they stationed there instead of just fighting the final battle?

i hardly think they both just dropped out of atmosphere and did battle, i am no general (it doesn't take that) but sure it took more than some weeks, don't you think? they had to make camps. besides, i'll be repetitive, who else might take prisoner a jedi in a war beween jedi and mandalorians? if you're answering "Revan", he had murdered those who would not turn to the dark side (once taken to Trayus Accademy) as i recall, there's no mention of Revan taking jedi prisoners, or did i miss something?

[Jediphile]

that line says "He used it to escape imprisonment on Malachor V", they were fighting mandalorians, i fail to see sense in him being prisoner of other than them. i mean nothing could lead us to believe otherwise so why say that that "imprisonment" is not referred to the Mandalorians?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The line you refer is this:

 

"The Ravager was hauled from the gravity well at Malachor V by its new master. He used it to escape imprisonment on Malachor V.The Sith fleet attacking Telos appears to be composed of many damaged warships... the wreckage of a great battle."

 

No offense, but I think that to just say "he used it to escape imprisonment" is to take it out of context. It certainly seems quite clear to me that Nihilus was simply stranded on Malachor V until he took control of the Ravager and then used it to leave the planet. Even if you disagree, it is at least a valid interpretation, isn't it?

 

also, Kreia says that they are spawned from the horrors of the mandalorian wars, she also says that the Exile tought them to bond with others and feed on those connections, the pinnacle of that ability is what Nihilus does (and what the ds Exile learns), it is also said that it is something learned by experiencing its effects first hand - from all this - how can you say he was born on Malachor? you can't. as i understand it, Sion and Nihilus were jedi (hardly could they be republic soldiers or mandalorians), survivors. Sion says he fought on Dxun and Malachor and Korriban, of Nihilus all we can gather is just that he was a prisoner on Malachor and he learned to bond with others from the Exile, and that in some way he "died and was reborn in the shattered world of Malachor V" (became Nihilus on Malachor) then took the Ravager for himself and fled, eventually he would return to Malachor.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

They were "born" on Malachor V in the sense that that is where they became Nihilus and Sion. Before that they had been something else. And yes, I agree that they were probably both jedi, who were horrible corrupted by the dark side and the powers of Malachor V.

 

As for "died and reborn", I think Nihilus (or rather, who he used to be) did indeed die or nearly so on Malachor V. I also think that he was a close friend or similar to the Exile, and that this is probably how he "learned" his powers from the Exile. But that's another discussion.

[Kalfear]

Ive seen lots of quoted postings from Win that were inaccurate or outright lies!

 

Good example is their assumption on gender issues, they have made a few claims as to the CANNON gender of the Exile, last I checked, only LA can say if something is or is not cannon far as SW goes! And they simple have not as of yet!

 

Heck, took them awhile before they admitted Revans Cannon gender was male which Win had posted differently on numerous occations prior to that!

 

If its SW related, there is only one true source and if you dont hear it from LA, its not for sure accurate or considered cannon!

[Knights&Darths]

No offense, but I think that to just say "he used it to escape imprisonment" is to take it out of context.

i posted the whole thing earlier, what for the sake of subtlety would the word "imprisonment" have to do with anything but its own meaning? i mean, if you think it was the MSG to "imprison" him, i don't fence any chance of survival for anything hit by a gravity well capable of crushing a planet (the Exile and Bao-Dur were on a ship) but it could be that he was safe in Trayus Accademy (along with Kreia and maybe others, that would account for her detailed description of what it felt like) yet still that would be an inappropriate choice of word in my most humble opinion (just trying to figure by what means such a clear word could be so misleading), "escape Malachor V" would have been fine, wouldn't it? however it may be, the article says "may or may not have at one point been a prisoner of the Mandalorians".

[SamuraiGaijin]

He may have been "imprisoned" by Kreia ... or simply trapped there (with no working ships on the surface) ... but that's just supposition on my part.

 

As for Visas' "of that place" statement ... here's my theory ... Nihilus was created, awakened, or turned to the Dark Side indirectly by the Exile when the Mass Shadow Generator was activated. The Exile shut out the pain and became an echo in the force ... Nihilus fed on it and became a black hole in the force. I also believe that by destroying Nihilus, the Exile restores some balance to himself and the force.

[Knights&Darths]

He may have been "imprisoned" by Kreia

lol wasn't it supposed to be the nice princess imprisoned in the high tower by the old queen? jokes apart, there is no mention of Revan ever taking jedi prisoners, you don't turn a jedi to the dark side with torture or detention, it must be willingly, there is mention in many occasions that he had murdered those who eventually would not see it his way. Traya started keeping Revan's work up and running only after the war, before then we have no elements to say she had any authority or desire to do what Revan did not (taking prisoners).

[BattleCookiee]

there is no mention of Revan ever taking jedi prisoners

 

Did you play the same KOTOR2 as I did? Revan used the Dark Side powers of Malachor V to turn Jedi, if that doesn't include capturing then I don't know what does...

Or do you really think the Jedi landed out of themselves on a destroyed planet just to have a little tea with the Dark Lord ("WTF does he even do on the planet surface" would be a Jedi thought) and then "suddenly" become DS?

 

EDIT; And it is the beautifull princess being captured by the mean dragon

Edited February 15, 2006 by BattleCookiee

[Knights&Darths]

And it is the beautifull princess being captured by the mean dragon 

don't bother me with details

Revan used the Dark Side powers of Malachor V to turn Jedi, if that doesn't include capturing then I don't know what does...

i do i'm sure you remember Kreia speaking of those tecniques, they were all about influence, the Exile's way as well

 

Kreia- Ah, but to make officers turn on their own people, to bomb innocent worlds to make pacts... strong influence, indeed. And where did these Sith teachings come from? And why did Revan embrace them so strongly? So many questions...

 

Kreia- Revan knew the power of such places... and the power in making them. They can be used to break the will of others... of Jedi, promising them power, and turning them to the dark side.

 

siphoning their will and making them believe in his cause, that's the way they were turned, they were teachings Revan learned in Trayus Accademy as we are led to believe, in the Exile they were something stronger and innate.

[BattleCookiee]

siphoning their will and making them believe in his cause, that's the way they were turned, they were teachings Revan learned in Trayus Accademy as we are led to believe, in the Exile they were something stronger and innate.

 

And so he did... like Malak did with Bastila... "

[Jediphile]

No offense, but I think that to just say "he used it to escape imprisonment" is to take it out of context.

i posted the whole thing earlier, what for the sake of subtlety would the word "imprisonment" have to do with anything but its own meaning?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But in that case we have a continuity problem. Nihilus cannot have been the being we see in K2 before the MSG is activated, because the destruction that it causes is what prompts the Exile to cut himself off from the force, and when he did so, that is where Nihilus "learned" his dark powers. Imprisonment means only that he was trapped in some way. How he was so is speculation. Since he used the Ravager to "escape imprisonment", it is clear that it is the Nihilus-being we're talking about, not who he used to be. And he cannot have been captured by the Mandalorians at that time, since they would all have been dead, killed by the MSG.

 

i mean, if you think it was the MSG to "imprison" him, i don't fence any chance of survival for anything hit by a gravity well capable of crushing a planet (the Exile and Bao-Dur were on a ship) but it could be that he was safe in Trayus Accademy (along with Kreia and maybe others, that would account for her detailed description of what it felt like) yet still that would be an inappropriate choice of word in my most humble opinion

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

My own take on is that (the later to be) Sion and Nihilus were on Malachor V when the MSG was activated. But I doubt Kreia was. Somehow I don't get the impression that she found the Trayus Academy until after the war.

 

(just trying to figure by what means such a clear word could be so misleading), "escape Malachor V" would have been fine, wouldn't it? however it may be, the article says "may or may not have at one point been a prisoner of the Mandalorians".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

"escape Malachor V" would have been fine, but I don't think you can use the fact that the word used was "imprisonment" to infer that Nihilus was captured by someone. It would still be a supposition, not a fact, and it seems strange that any Mandalorians could hold a being as powerful as Nihilus prisoner in any event. And that actually is what it would then say, since the comment is about how he took control of the Ravager. Not many people (or rather none), including jedi, could do that, so it is not the proto-Nihilus we're talking about.

[Knights&Darths]

And so he did... like Malak did with Bastila...  "

ok you lost me there Malak turned Bastila showing her how liberating was the power of hate, she was already on the edge as i recall. Revan did not bother torturing anyone (i wonder what influence could he gain on jedi by torturing them, "It is a far greater victory to make another see through your eyes")

[BattleCookiee]

Also, to prove that the battle of Malachor never took place on the surface

 

Not since Malachor. It is always in my dreams. I remember the ships.{Emphasis on second line into next}I dreamt of Malachor. I remember the ships.The last stand of the Republic. The tattered remnants of our fleet, the largest we could gather, but it was damaged, weakened and vulnerable.The Mandalorians couldn't resist. They tore into us like beasts, shredding our ships to scrap as we fought back.Yet this time, there were no reinforcements for either side. Revan had been delayed out-system by Mandalorian scout ships. By the time he arrived, it was too late.And beyond Malachor, there were no more Mandalorians left to die.I remember standing on the bridge with you and watching the destruction of the Republic - watching ships full of soldiers and Jedi burn and die.I remember the look you had when you turned to me. It was the longest you'd ever looked at me.You didn't say anything - just a nod.{Brisker, as though the hard part of the story is over}Events move quickly then, even in my dreams. Flashes, explosions, you - falling. I could feel the pain around me.And then the memory. The drifting hulks of the Mandalorian ships, the dead - allies, friends, strangers.And then the echo. Lingering. The sound I awaken to in my nightmares.Does anyone deserve the Mandalorians' fate? Even some of their conquered worlds fared better.Glorious? It was nothing more than a slaughter. A slaughter caused by one of my creations.Blame lies with me, for creating it. The situation forced your hand, anger forced mine.You realized that unless action was taken, the fleet would be destroyed, and the Republic would fall.None of us realized the magnitude of what we unleashed.

[BattleCookiee]

And some other loading screen quotes that give more reason why they say Imprisonment and why there are no Mandalorians on Malachor V and thus all this is bull...

 

Malachor was a forbidden world to the Mandalorians - a cultural taboo that Revan used against them.

 

NO Mandalorian Slave Camps there thus...

 

The storms of Malachor V are enough to draw down even the strongest of ships. Once on the surface, there is little chance of escape.

 

Explaining the "imprisonment"

 

Sion, Traya, and Nihilus, all were drawn to its surface after the destruction of Malachor V. Each learned a different technique of what the academy had to offer.

 

Proof that the theorie that Kreia knew Traya Academy before M5's battle is false.

Also it seems like Nihilus wasn't created there

 

Traya used her skills at manipulation to assume domination of the other Sith Lords. She wished to study Malachor V and the echoes it was causing in the Force. Unwilling to wait to do battle with the Jedi, Sion and Nihilus turned on Traya and began their shadow war against the Jedi

 

Proof against the theorie that Nihilus was no student of Traya is also false

 

NOTE THAT THIS LINE PROVES WIKIPEDIA'S INTERPRETATION IS FALSE!

 

You have taken this trophy from the remains of Darth Nihilus - it is the last surviving piece of the beast who died and was reborn in the shattered world of Malachor V. By taking it from him, you have gained a stronger tie to the Force.

 

Mask description. Died and reborn, eh? How does that fix into the "found M5 after the battle" part?

(You gotta love all these inconsistencies)

 

Ah well... enough feed in the game for a thousand different theories, and that on Wikipedia is just 1 of them... and there is a big chance it is not the correct one...

Edited February 15, 2006 by BattleCookiee

[Knights&Darths]

Also, to prove that the battle of Malachor never took place on the surface

they're not the only one to say that the battle also took place in orbit, so what?

[BattleCookiee]

they're not the only one to say that the battle also took place in orbit, so what?

 

Yup. There is even an ingame screen telling us how Revan helped the battle from the Academy.

 

Kind of hard if he was stuck a few starsystems away...

 

You gotta LOVE kotor2's consistency

[Gabrielle]

Indeedy! K2 is straight as an arrow in consistency.

[Knights&Darths]

There is even an ingame screen telling us how Revan helped the battle from the Academy

[Jediphile]

Also, to prove that the battle of Malachor never took place on the surface

 

Not since Malachor. It is always in my dreams. I remember the ships.{Emphasis on second line into next}I dreamt of Malachor. I remember the ships.The last stand of the Republic. The tattered remnants of our fleet, the largest we could gather, but it was damaged, weakened and vulnerable.The Mandalorians couldn't resist. They tore into us like beasts, shredding our ships to scrap as we fought back.Yet this time, there were no reinforcements for either side. Revan had been delayed out-system by Mandalorian scout ships. By the time he arrived, it was too late.And beyond Malachor, there were no more Mandalorians left to die.I remember standing on the bridge with you and watching the destruction of the Republic - watching ships full of soldiers and Jedi burn and die.I remember the look you had when you turned to me. It was the longest you'd ever looked at me.You didn't say anything - just a nod.{Brisker, as though the hard part of the story is over}Events move quickly then, even in my dreams. Flashes, explosions, you - falling. I could feel the pain around me.And then the memory. The drifting hulks of the Mandalorian ships, the dead - allies, friends, strangers.And then the echo. Lingering. The sound I awaken to in my nightmares.Does anyone deserve the Mandalorians' fate? Even some of their conquered worlds fared better.Glorious? It was nothing more than a slaughter. A slaughter caused by one of my creations.Blame lies with me, for creating it. The situation forced your hand, anger forced mine.You realized that unless action was taken, the fleet would be destroyed, and the Republic would fall.None of us realized the magnitude of what we unleashed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think that comming begs the question of where the ground battle that the Exile relived in the tomb on Korriban took place? It was clearly against the Mandalorians, but I don't recall if it was ever mentioned, where it was fought.

[BattleCookiee]

There is even an ingame screen telling us how Revan helped the battle from the Academy

[BattleCookiee]

as for the other "proofs", i really don't see it but that's just me, wiki however, as i said and reported, does use "maybes" when needed.

 

Was just for other "popular" theories... not the Wikipedia part

 

I think that comming begs the question of where the ground battle that the Exile relived in the tomb on Korriban took place? It was clearly against the Mandalorians, but I don't recall if it was ever mentioned, where it was fought.

 

Yup. If the Exile was on the ship all the time and the whole battle was fought out in space, that scene could have never taken place.

But as I said before; Kotor2 consistency for teh win!

 

EDIT: Nevermind, it was Dxun alright...

Edited February 15, 2006 by BattleCookiee

[Knights&Darths]

that was Dxun

however, when i said "where" i intended the source (please), if i'm not asking too much.

[BattleCookiee]

Dialog.TLK

[Knights&Darths]

Dialog.TLK

that wasn't much help there are many cut things in there, a dlg file maybe?

[Jediphile]

Dialog.TLK

that wasn't much help there are many cut things in there, a dlg file maybe?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, if you want to see the text, there's not much of an alternative. I usually open dialog.tlk in notepad and then perform a search with the quotes I want to find.

[Knights&Darths]

yes but there's a lot of stuff in there that got cut for the most various reasons, you can't say if that actually made it into the final game, that's no proof, don't know if i'm being clear. there's a lot of stuff i bumped into and said "whoa" or "huh?" but most of them were dropped.