Jump to content

Welcome to Obsidian Forum Community
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Intuitive Rules - 2nd Ed. AD&D vs. D&D 3E/3.5


  • Please log in to reply
284 replies to this topic

#41
Darque

Darque

    Obsidian VIP

  • Members
  • 12328 posts
  • Location:On the flipside of reality
Let's see...

Thac0: +'s are really -'s

wtf :thumbsup:

AoO: You let your guard down, and something will take that opening to kick your ass.

Well that makes sense :thumbsup:

#42
Judge Hades

Judge Hades

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 13912 posts
  • Location:User 199 from Iowa

I have an easier time teaching a newbie 3.x edition/d20 System than teaching a newbie 2e.  Most people I have dealt with feels that d20 System is indeed more intuitive and they had no previous exposure to either editions before.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Oh yeah? Which edition did you teach them first? Likely, that the second one you teach them will be easier to learn for them than whatever they learned first.

And Wow.. They understood the intricacies of AoO right off the bat. I am impressed! Your players must be geniuses! :thumbsup:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Actually I was comparing newbies to gaming period. I taught a bunch of people 2e and a different set of people with no experience with the d20 System. The d20 System crowd gets it a lot quicker than the 2e crowd.

#43
Lancer

Lancer

    (11) Wizard

  • Members
  • 1672 posts
  • Location:Somewhere on or INSIDE MYSTARA!

Let's see...

Thac0: +'s are really -'s

wtf :thumbsup:

AoO: You let your guard down, and something will take that opening to kick your ass.

Well that makes sense  :geek:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



It's weird.. When I learned to play Basic D&D and later AD&D when I was 12-13, I never questioned these things. I just learned them because that is how the rulebook said that they worked. And I thought that addition/subtraction of single digits is simple enough and so they quickly became intuitive. Whether you are counting up or down really makes no difference to me. They are both easy to grasp.
It is not like you are adding fractions like in Champions, for instance!

I never thought THACO and AC were difficult concepts. In fact, what I thought was the hardest thing to learn from Basic D&D was the War Machine rules. That took a little.
AoO, OTOH, is easily the hardest roleplaying concept I have ever had to plod through. And this is coming from someone who has read through the rulesets of sh!tloads (pardon my French) of games. There is a LOOT more to AoO than what you state here.

Edited by Lancer, 13 January 2006 - 11:02 PM.


#44
Volourn

Volourn

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 17067 posts
  • Location:North Bay, Ontario, Kanada
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer
"But if anyone claims that they made perfect sense out of all this their first time looking at AD&D rules, I say they are lying."

Then call me a liar.. again. I found it rather intuitive. And, I was about 14 or so when 2E came out. And, none of my friends had any real trouble figuring it out.



"In real life most things get better when they go up, why should game ruleset be the other way around?"

Most things. Not everything. And, the D&D ruleset works the same.

Edited by Volourn, 13 January 2006 - 11:05 PM.


#45
Lancer

Lancer

    (11) Wizard

  • Members
  • 1672 posts
  • Location:Somewhere on or INSIDE MYSTARA!

Then call me a liar.. again. I found it rather intuitive. And, I was about 14 or so when 2E came out. And, none of my friends had any real trouble figuring it out.


Finally! A breath of fresh air!

I concur with this. I had the same experience. I find it surprising that the 3e advocates claim that 2ndED was so hard to learn for them. I didn't have any problems understanding it either and nor did any of my friends that I gamed with.

#46
Volourn

Volourn

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 17067 posts
  • Location:North Bay, Ontario, Kanada
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer
And, before someone accuses me of being anti 3E, wrong again. I wa sin the past. But, overall, I like it just as much as 2E and in some ways it is better.

So there. :thumbsup:"

But, I've never un=dertsood this nonsense of thaco and negative ac being some overly complicated difficult thing to figure out. It's VERY intuitive.

The lower the ac or the lower the thaco the better they are.

NOt complicated at all.

Just the way calories work.

Or the faster you go the more likley you'll get in toruble with the law making it a bad thing. LOL

Same with PING for internet connections for multiplayer games. The lower the better.

R00fles!

#47
CoM_Solaufein

CoM_Solaufein

    Obsidian VIP

  • Members
  • 5116 posts
  • Location:The Frozen North
  • Steam:apocalypse_2000
Call me one who doesn't like change, because it's true, but 2nd edition rules are great compared to 3.5 or whatever version it's at now. I don't like them, they removed too many restrictions on classes and races. I don't like how it levels up either.

#48
Musopticon?

Musopticon?

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 8956 posts
  • Location:What the Bircarli once called their own, spires of soot, flatlands of silver, sky afire
Sigh.

Does anyone of you even understand what "intuitive" means?

Nevermind. my biggest gripe with 2nd edition was the restrictions. Why the heck couldn't a halfling be a paladin? They have individuals of strong faith in their temples for, say, Baervan and using weapons have never been a problem for the periannnath. So what's the ****ing problem?

Same goes for the whole "druids can't use metal weapons"-bull****. Or the priest ethos not allowing for bladed weapons. Helmite paladins wielded zweihanders and half-spears, why not the priests?

Edited by Musopticon?, 14 January 2006 - 05:36 AM.


#49
Gabrielle

Gabrielle

    Arch-Mage

  • Members.
  • 5759 posts
First edition for the win!

I like a combination of both second edition and third. It's stupid that priests and druids can't use certain weapons. It's also stupid to have race restrictions removed from second edition. A dwarf monk in third edition? Please let's be realistic about it.

Edited by Gabrielle, 14 January 2006 - 06:41 AM.


#50
Nartwak

Nartwak

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 2132 posts
  • Location:Arco #9

It's also stupid have race restriction removed. A dwarf monk? Please let's be realistic about it. .

I'm sorry, but this is unintelligible.

#51
Gabrielle

Gabrielle

    Arch-Mage

  • Members.
  • 5759 posts
Eh?

#52
karka

karka

    (12) Mage

  • Members
  • 1818 posts
  • Location:Turkey
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
Restrictions are bad, penalties are good.

#53
Gabrielle

Gabrielle

    Arch-Mage

  • Members.
  • 5759 posts
Fixed. I just got up an hour ago. My mind hasn't fully awaken yet.

#54
Slowtrain

Slowtrain

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 5299 posts
  • Location:Yes
Using the word "realistic" when discussing any version of D&D makes baby jesus cry.

#55
Nartwak

Nartwak

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 2132 posts
  • Location:Arco #9
Thanks Gabrielle.

It's still nonsense of course; as dwarves are unequivocally awesome in all ways.

#56
Gabrielle

Gabrielle

    Arch-Mage

  • Members.
  • 5759 posts

Thanks Gabrielle.

It's still nonsense of course; as dwarves are unequivocally awesome in all ways.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You sound like my ex, he was a dwarf lover. I hate dwarves. Go elves!

#57
Judge Hades

Judge Hades

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 13912 posts
  • Location:User 199 from Iowa
I don't see why there can't be dwarven monks or elven monks, but if you don't like that idea then use Rule 0 and not have them in your campaign. Nothing is stopping you. Personally I don't like any of the base line classes in the PHB 3.5 except rogue. That is why I use the Monte Cook Arcana Evolved, with the 3.5e rogue and MC's bard and Sorcerer.

#58
J.E. Sawyer

J.E. Sawyer

    Project Director

  • Developers+
  • 2995 posts
  • Location:Santa Ana, California

Now we are getting somewhere. At least you acknowledge that much of 3e is not intuitive.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's what I wrote in the first place. But please, continue to turn a thread about console games into an unending discussion about the merits of 2nd Edition AD&D over 3E.

#59
Judge Hades

Judge Hades

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 13912 posts
  • Location:User 199 from Iowa
Speaking of Dungeons and Dragons various editions and consoles who here liked Warriors of the Eternal Sun for the genesis. Best DnD game on console ever.

#60
Lancer

Lancer

    (11) Wizard

  • Members
  • 1672 posts
  • Location:Somewhere on or INSIDE MYSTARA!

Speaking of Dungeons and Dragons various editions and consoles who here liked Warriors of the Eternal Sun for the genesis.  Best DnD game on console ever.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Warriors of the Eternal Sun was a fun game. But Order of the Griffon for the Turbo Grafx 16 was the best!


But it is interesting to realize that both games were based on the Basic D&D ruleset. That's right! Not 1e, 2ndEd, or 3.x!

Not to mention that both were based on my favorite DND gameworld.. Mystara. :(
Yep, back in the days not ALL tabletop console/computer RPGs were based on Forgotten Realms.

Boy, that makes me proud. :luck:

Edited by Lancer, 14 January 2006 - 08:31 AM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users