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In my eyes, the bible makes sense if it's meant to be taken as a mythical legend and guidebook and not as literal truth. (for example, that the Flood is meant as a tale about punishment for sin instead of a worldwide flood actually happening). While I'm sure that parts of it are somewhat factual, after 2000+ years I seriously doubt that most of the original text still exists as it's creators intended it, and I don't think it should be considered to be as true as a history textbook. Considering much of it was written decades or even centuries after the events they record, I'd have to agree with Hades that it's not a credible source of reliable information.

 

Then again, I'm not Christian, and this is just my opinion.

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Actually, I think society as we know it would collapse in on itself.

 

 

Faith, as we all know, is a powerful thing...

Edited by LoneWolf16

I had thought that some of nature's journeymen had made men and not made them well, for they imitated humanity so abominably. - Book of Counted Sorrows

 

'Cause I won't know the man that kills me

and I don't know these men I kill

but we all wind up on the same side

'cause ain't none of us doin' god's will.

- Everlast

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First of all I see that not everyone follows my philosophy of: form and have your own opinions but don't try and force them on others and don't be critical of people that don't agree with you because in the grand scheme of things we may never know if some one is right or wrong.

4.  If god punishes someone forever then he is being a petty tyrant.  Simple as that.  Like I said above there is no crime, anywhere, that deserves eternal punishment.  If god is going to be petty then I will gladly give him the finger and tell him to sit and spin.

 

I say we push for a spiritual democracy.

 

 

First off, Judaism didn't really have a predecessor.

 

Zoroastrianism is considered by many historians to be the predecessor to Judaism because it was the first monotheistic religion that had a sense of good and evil.

 

There is a lot of people stating "facts" but very little to back it up.  I still have not seen verses or anything to go along with a lot of what is being said...

 

Not even facts but more along the lines of vauge staments. Plato and Aristotle might weep.

 

 

At some point the verbal history and teachings of Christianity was set to paper by some religious person, but by that time the telling of the story became more grandoise.

 

The God of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam is indeed the same entity.  God is not a stagnant creature that you make him out to be.  He learns and grows just like us.  After all we are a minor reflection of what he is.

 

The Gospels were written by disciples and by Paul, all of who existed at Jesus's time, so you were wrong by saying nothing was written down for over 100 years. :wub:

 

My point is, the gods of Islam and Christianity have very different natures. Some may not see it that way, but that is how I and many others see it. Also, as I said, this is only based on what I've read, which are secular and theological sources. And as I said, I too believed they were the same gods with the same nature, but my studies changed that opinion. If you view differently, fine.

 

First of all I think you are talking about totally different things. One is talking about the four Gospels, or stories of the life and teachings of Christ, and the other is talking of the biblical stories. Plus it is a widely accepted fact by historians that for the most part we don't know who wrote most of the bible down. Also it is speculated that both Marys' had gospels that were suppressed along with others by the heads of the new christian church.

 

I'll admit, unlike others in this thread, that I don't know everthing, I am not an expert in religion, and that everything I have stated is my own opinion and may not be right in others eyes.

 

I'll leave you with this quote, for those of you who insist that you know God and his ways, and these four links.

 

Einstein- "God does not play dice."

Niels Bohr- "Einstein, stop telling God what to do with his dice."

 

You should watch this movie, this movie, and this movie.

 

And if anyone has any questions go here.

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Frankly, I don't know why Shadowstrider got so riled over the issue. My original point was not about how right or wrong the faiths were, just that Islam's nature was very different than that of Christianity and Judaism, and is less of a continuation of it's predessecor as Christianity is of Judaism. And it's true. Most scholars and researchers do agree on the point. What I stated earlier comes from the Holy Quran, the Islamic Invasion, and Islam Unveiled. ;) If Shadowstrider really had done research, he'd know this.

 

But if he did, then it's not showing, especially given he can't back up most of his statements except with "blind man", and what little he did back up was either disproved or is open to interpretation. Notice also he was the first one to step out and say I was wrong and that I was lacking in research. He seems to forget that his opinions, like mine, are just that: opinions. But I'll say it one more time: I'm not saying that one faith is right and another is wrong, I'm trying to point out that I and many others have concluded the Gods and doctrines of Christianity and Islam are very different. And when I refer to Gods, I'm referring more to the nature of the God's, not that they are different gods altogether. Sure they teach similar things: monotheism, good and evil, prayer, sins, same prophets, etc, but they also differ radically in many ways. :lol:

 

But if Shadowstrider or anyone desires me to back up why I think that way, I'll gladly do it. It's just that it'll take a while, since there are many reasons and sources to list, and I'm very lazy. :)

Edited by Mothman
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The is no god/s. The sooner the human race accepts this, the better off they will be.

 

Do you have any proof to back up either statement?

Lou Gutman, P.I.- It's like I'm not even trying anymore!
http://theatomicdanger.iforumer.com/index....theatomicdanger

One billion b-balls dribbling simultaneously throughout the galaxy. One trillion b-balls being slam dunked through a hoop throughout the galaxy. I can feel every single b-ball that has ever existed at my fingertips. I can feel their collective knowledge channeling through my viens. Every jumpshot, every rebound and three-pointer, every layup, dunk, and free throw. I am there.

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1.  Sorry, I can never see God as an all good diety.  If he was all good he wouldn't have made three religions that kill each other in his name.

 

2.  Another reason why I don't see god as all good is the fact that if you are against him you will be tortured for all eternity.  No matter the crime there is no justification for eternal torture.  No justification at all.  Not even genocide.  Sure it might be worth a 1000 or more years, but eternity is a long freaking time.  Talk about holding a grudge.

 

3.  Yeah, yeah, God is all freaking powerful.  Listen, Kid, absolute power corrupts absolutely.  Doesn't matter if you are god or a postal worker.

 

4.  If god punishes someone forever then he is being a petty tyrant.  Simple as that.  Like I said above there is no crime, anywhere, that deserves eternal punishment.  If god is going to be petty then I will gladly give him the finger and tell him to sit and spin.

 

5.  Jesus is nothing more than a Paul Bunyan tale, stolen from the greeks to replace Hercules or some other divine borned gid.  The stories of Jesus is more myth than fact.

 

1. God made Judaism, but meant for the Jews to convert to Christianity after that religion was formed. Islam is a born of Satan and meant to convert would-be Christians to a religion that kills them.

 

2. Are you God? No. Then how can you understand him? The Bible says all sins are equal in the eyes of God and he is willing to forgive all sins if you accept Christ as your Savior.

 

3. Only if you're imperfect to start with.

 

4. You fear Hell.

 

5. Jesus Christ did exist. That is historical fact, and as C.S. Lewis said-(paraphrasing here) he was either a liar, a lunatic, or the Lord.

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1. God made Judaism, but meant for the Jews to convert to Christianity after that religion was formed.  Islam is a born of Satan and meant to convert would-be Christians to a religion that kills them.

 

...

Lou Gutman, P.I.- It's like I'm not even trying anymore!
http://theatomicdanger.iforumer.com/index....theatomicdanger

One billion b-balls dribbling simultaneously throughout the galaxy. One trillion b-balls being slam dunked through a hoop throughout the galaxy. I can feel every single b-ball that has ever existed at my fingertips. I can feel their collective knowledge channeling through my viens. Every jumpshot, every rebound and three-pointer, every layup, dunk, and free throw. I am there.

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The is no god/s. The sooner the human race accepts this, the better off they will be.

 

Do you have any proof to back up either statement?

She doesn't need to. She's Gabs. >_<

 

 

[snip]

Enough with the prank alts already.

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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Everytime you post Numbers, I end up watching your avatar for a few minutes.

Lou Gutman, P.I.- It's like I'm not even trying anymore!
http://theatomicdanger.iforumer.com/index....theatomicdanger

One billion b-balls dribbling simultaneously throughout the galaxy. One trillion b-balls being slam dunked through a hoop throughout the galaxy. I can feel every single b-ball that has ever existed at my fingertips. I can feel their collective knowledge channeling through my viens. Every jumpshot, every rebound and three-pointer, every layup, dunk, and free throw. I am there.

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It's funny because it's true!

Lou Gutman, P.I.- It's like I'm not even trying anymore!
http://theatomicdanger.iforumer.com/index....theatomicdanger

One billion b-balls dribbling simultaneously throughout the galaxy. One trillion b-balls being slam dunked through a hoop throughout the galaxy. I can feel every single b-ball that has ever existed at my fingertips. I can feel their collective knowledge channeling through my viens. Every jumpshot, every rebound and three-pointer, every layup, dunk, and free throw. I am there.

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I don't know, Baley is always coming up with a new alt...

Lou Gutman, P.I.- It's like I'm not even trying anymore!
http://theatomicdanger.iforumer.com/index....theatomicdanger

One billion b-balls dribbling simultaneously throughout the galaxy. One trillion b-balls being slam dunked through a hoop throughout the galaxy. I can feel every single b-ball that has ever existed at my fingertips. I can feel their collective knowledge channeling through my viens. Every jumpshot, every rebound and three-pointer, every layup, dunk, and free throw. I am there.

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Everytime you post Numbers, I end up watching your avatar for a few minutes.

 

213374U= Too Leet For You

 

I'm not sure I understand the question?

Lou Gutman, P.I.- It's like I'm not even trying anymore!
http://theatomicdanger.iforumer.com/index....theatomicdanger

One billion b-balls dribbling simultaneously throughout the galaxy. One trillion b-balls being slam dunked through a hoop throughout the galaxy. I can feel every single b-ball that has ever existed at my fingertips. I can feel their collective knowledge channeling through my viens. Every jumpshot, every rebound and three-pointer, every layup, dunk, and free throw. I am there.

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What question? Do you see a '?' mark?

 

 

Are you speaking in some sort of code?

Lou Gutman, P.I.- It's like I'm not even trying anymore!
http://theatomicdanger.iforumer.com/index....theatomicdanger

One billion b-balls dribbling simultaneously throughout the galaxy. One trillion b-balls being slam dunked through a hoop throughout the galaxy. I can feel every single b-ball that has ever existed at my fingertips. I can feel their collective knowledge channeling through my viens. Every jumpshot, every rebound and three-pointer, every layup, dunk, and free throw. I am there.

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What are you trying to say, exactly?

Lou Gutman, P.I.- It's like I'm not even trying anymore!
http://theatomicdanger.iforumer.com/index....theatomicdanger

One billion b-balls dribbling simultaneously throughout the galaxy. One trillion b-balls being slam dunked through a hoop throughout the galaxy. I can feel every single b-ball that has ever existed at my fingertips. I can feel their collective knowledge channeling through my viens. Every jumpshot, every rebound and three-pointer, every layup, dunk, and free throw. I am there.

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What are you trying to say, exactly?

 

Say? Say to what? Please specify.

 

Tough talk...

 

But I like it!

 

Your saying land a major film!

Lou Gutman, P.I.- It's like I'm not even trying anymore!
http://theatomicdanger.iforumer.com/index....theatomicdanger

One billion b-balls dribbling simultaneously throughout the galaxy. One trillion b-balls being slam dunked through a hoop throughout the galaxy. I can feel every single b-ball that has ever existed at my fingertips. I can feel their collective knowledge channeling through my viens. Every jumpshot, every rebound and three-pointer, every layup, dunk, and free throw. I am there.

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