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HAHAHAHA!

 

You think that over the past two thousand years that the scriptures haven't been tampered with in one form or another?  Oh that is rich!  HAHAHA!

 

Here is the link about the council  Iwas talking about.

 

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03555a.htm

 

Be an ignorant good Christian and know I will be laughing at you.

:lol: That proves absolutely nothing! Even in the link you provided, it gives no evidence of tampering. It was a council called together to interpret the scriptures and to make judgements based on that, not the other way around.

 

1.  The concept is that a human can be close to God himself, as you would a person.  But here there is still a small part of God, since he is a deity, that humans do not know, hence his name.  Allah on the other hand cannot be known on a human level. 

 

2.  God is spoken of as a being with intellect, emotion, and will.  Allah is not to be understood as a prson, as it would lower him to the level of a man.

 

OMG... if I have to point you to The Blind Men and the Elephant one more time, I might actually just put it in my signature.

 

P.S. Allah means god. Its his name as much as God is God's name.

 

3.  That was because it was before Jesus's coming.  That was when it became a trinity.  Islam teaches that those who believe in the trinity are blasphemers.  Sura 5:73.

 

So? That doesn't prove or disprove anything. The point is that each religion is different, but they worship the same being. Christians differently than Jews, and differently from Muslims. In order for you to hold the Trinity up as a different god, you have to say Jews also worship a different god. They don't, they just worship the same god in different ways.

 

Islam sees that Trinity [Father, Son and the Holy Spirit – three persons in one God] contradicts the concept of the Oneness of God. This is which is taught by the revealed scriptures of God and categorically stated in the Bible itself. Please read the following verses - among others - emphasizing belief in the One and Only God:

 

“Hear, O Israel: The Lord thy God is one Lord.” (Deuteronomy 6:4)

 

“Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Fear ye not, neither be afraid; have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.” (Isaiah 44:6,8)

 

You also have the following passages in the New Testament, in the words of Jesus Christ:

 

“And Jesus answered him, the first of all the commandments is: Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is One Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these…” (Mark 12:29-31)

 

“And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” (John 17:3) Reference

 

4.  I meant that God is bound by his nature which means he will not do things that might make him imperfect, hence he cannot lie or do evil.  Allah could easily lie or break promises, as he is not bound by any nature of any sort.  As for the 99 aspects, you'll see they are things listed that Allah is not, not what he is.

 

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that god is bound by anything. He is what he is, did you bother to read my post? Maybe, but understanding it - obviously not.

 

I once again point out that you need to do your research.

 

5.  Ah ah - Not loving in the same way as the bible.  In Islam, Allah can only love you if you follow him and obey his commands.  Christianity teaches that God loves everyone, even those who do not believe in him.

"Nu-uh! I say so."

Yes, he loved the Egyptians when he buried them in the sea. Or when he rained fire on Saddam and Gommora. Or when he allowed Satan to test Job's loyalty. Or when he decreed that lying with another man as you would with a woman is a tremendous sin, worthy of death.

 

Both religions have the same policy. "Embrace me, and my teachings as holy, otherwise you're out of the family."

 

6.  Please read my posts more carefully.  Allah never intervenes pesonally.  He sends prophets, like Jesus or Muhammad, but he never participates himself.  Jesus, which Christianity teaches was God, is a perfect example of God intervening himself.

 

Again, Allah is personally responsible for Jesus. Heed your own advice, but not just to my posts, in your so-called research.

 

7.  Not in Jesus's sense.  Jesus was supposed to be more than a prophet - he was a Messiah.  And he was an intercessor because he enabled humanity to be forgiven of their sins and released from punishment.  Islam has none of that.  :thumbsup:

 

"Because I said so."

 

Intercessor is intercessor. God sent Jesus to save people. God sent Moses to save people. God sent Mohammed to save people. They all had the same message, God says do this and you will be saved, failure to do so means bad things.

 

Also, remember both faiths teach very different doctrines and ways to worship God.  :thumbsup:

 

Blind man.

 

1/2. No crap Allah means "god"! I'm referring to the two separately so it's easier to tell when I'm talking about Islam and Christianity! And also, just because two people share names doesn't make them the same person. Otherwise, you'd have to say the Arabic pagan moon god "Allah" is the Allah of the Quran. 8)

 

3. Of course it means something. If the Quran says that one faith is wrong, how can you be sure if the two gods are of the same nature? And as for the verses you listed, yes God is one God, but he manifests in three different ways. Islam teaches that Allah has only one form, one form only. No trinity.

 

4. Of course it does. And God is bound by his own nature to do things that are right. Whereas Allah can do whatever he wants, and is capricious.

 

5. In the Old Testament sense, before Jesus's sacrifice, it was punishment. Remember, God is also just. After Jesus's sacrfice, it was no longer necessary. And keep in mind, these were only specific peoples for crimes they had committed, not humanity in general. :thumbsup:

 

67. Allah never intervenes personally. And no prophet was sent to save us in Jesus's sense. Jesus was the Messiah and God himself. Allah never did anything like that. :thumbsup:

 

And if you really studied Islam, you'd know what I'm talking about when I refer to doctrines. If you really studied Islam, you wouldn't need me to post verses. :thumbsup: If you think I'm wrong, back it up with more than just calling me "blind man", otherwise you'll only make a fool out of yourself. And until you're ready to stop name calling, we don't have much more to discuss. ;)

Edited by Mothman
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Blind man.

What if you are blind in thinking he is blind? You are just one of the blind men telling the other blind man he is wrong = )

 

(i read the link by the way, and it was a good story i guess. but it proves itself as fallible, in that it assumes there is nobody who is "right", or at least that you never know who is "right", and therefore the story may be blind in and of itself)

 

The moral of the story isn't that people are right or wrong.

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The only way to solve the problems of religion is to remove faith and beleif.  They are subjective elements that have no value whatsoever.  We can only go by fact and the evidence at hand. and apply logic and reason.

 

Occam's Razor (http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/OCCAMRAZ.html) is a good lithmus test to go by.  Which is more reasonable?  Mary being raped by a Roman Soldier then telling her would be husband that it was God who pregnated her in order to hide her shame or have some spiritual force supernaturally made her pregnant?  Or was it all made up in the first place?

 

Why do you believe in God then if that's how you view things?

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The only way to solve the problems of religion is to remove faith and beleif.  They are subjective elements that have no value whatsoever.  We can only go by fact and the evidence at hand. and apply logic and reason.

 

Occam's Razor (http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/OCCAMRAZ.html) is a good lithmus test to go by.  Which is more reasonable?  Mary being raped by a Roman Soldier then telling her would be husband that it was God who pregnated her in order to hide her shame or have some spiritual force supernaturally made her pregnant?  Or was it all made up in the first place?

 

Why do you believe in God then if that's how you view things?

 

 

So... You find beleiving in God illogical and unreasonable?

Lou Gutman, P.I.- It's like I'm not even trying anymore!
http://theatomicdanger.iforumer.com/index....theatomicdanger

One billion b-balls dribbling simultaneously throughout the galaxy. One trillion b-balls being slam dunked through a hoop throughout the galaxy. I can feel every single b-ball that has ever existed at my fingertips. I can feel their collective knowledge channeling through my viens. Every jumpshot, every rebound and three-pointer, every layup, dunk, and free throw. I am there.

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The only way to solve the problems of religion is to remove faith and beleif.  They are subjective elements that have no value whatsoever.  We can only go by fact and the evidence at hand. and apply logic and reason.

 

Occam's Razor (http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/OCCAMRAZ.html) is a good lithmus test to go by.  Which is more reasonable?  Mary being raped by a Roman Soldier then telling her would be husband that it was God who pregnated her in order to hide her shame or have some spiritual force supernaturally made her pregnant?  Or was it all made up in the first place?

 

Why do you believe in God then if that's how you view things?

 

 

So... You find beleiving in God illogical and unreasonable?

 

No. I'm just asking Hades how he can believe in God if that's his view on life. I have no problem admitting not everything in the Bible can be proven with fact and logic. But why would one believe in god if everything must be proved by solid fact, which is what Hades is implying?

Edited by Mothman
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That proves absolutely nothing! Even in the link you provided, it gives no evidence of tampering. It was a council called together to interpret the scriptures and to make judgements based on that, not the other way around.

 

Evidence of tamepring? I was simply giving a link telling you how the who Trinity thing got started. As for tampering I don't think I need to show evidence of that because its not that hard to find. Just look at the various "versions" of the Bible: http://www.hope.edu/academic/religion/band...INTRO/BIB_1.HTM

 

And that is just the recent history. The christian bible has been translated, revised, retranslated, shortened, expanded, blah blah blah over the last 2000 years so much it just can't be taken as credible.

 

EDIT: I don't go by belief or faith. I'll just leave it as that.

Edited by Judge Hades
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That proves absolutely nothing! Even in the link you provided, it gives no evidence of tampering. It was a council called together to interpret the scriptures and to make judgements based on that, not the other way around.

 

Evidence of tamepring? I was simply giving a link telling you how the who Trinity thing got started. As for tampering I don't think I need to show evidence of that because its not that hard to find. Just look at the various "versions" of the Bible: http://www.hope.edu/academic/religion/band...INTRO/BIB_1.HTM

 

And that is just the recent history. The christian bible has been translated, revised, retranslated, shortened, expanded, blah blah blah over the last 2000 years so much it just can't be taken as credible.

 

Just one thing: there are so many versions because the originial text was written in Hebrew and Greek. There are many ways and preferences to translate it into English, hence there are a lot of versions. But it does not imply tampering. :thumbsup:

Edited by Mothman
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The christian bible has been translated, revised, retranslated, shortened, expanded, blah blah blah over the last 2000 years so much it just can't be taken as credible.

 

Edited by thepixiesrock

Lou Gutman, P.I.- It's like I'm not even trying anymore!
http://theatomicdanger.iforumer.com/index....theatomicdanger

One billion b-balls dribbling simultaneously throughout the galaxy. One trillion b-balls being slam dunked through a hoop throughout the galaxy. I can feel every single b-ball that has ever existed at my fingertips. I can feel their collective knowledge channeling through my viens. Every jumpshot, every rebound and three-pointer, every layup, dunk, and free throw. I am there.

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The christian bible has been translated, revised, retranslated, shortened, expanded, blah blah blah over the last 2000 years so much it just can't be taken as credible.

 

 

We still have the original language texts available, including the Apocrypha. :thumbsup: Make your own judgement, I'll make mine.

Edited by Mothman
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Blind man.

What if you are blind in thinking he is blind? You are just one of the blind men telling the other blind man he is wrong = )

 

(i read the link by the way, and it was a good story i guess. but it proves itself as fallible, in that it assumes there is nobody who is "right", or at least that you never know who is "right", and therefore the story may be blind in and of itself)

 

The moral of the story isn't that people are right or wrong.

which is why the story claims that its self is neither right nor wrong. i definitely won't place my faith in something that claims its self is neither right nor wrong.

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1/2.  No crap Allah means "god"!  I'm referring to the two separately so it's easier to tell when I'm talking about Islam and Christianity!  And also, just because two people share names doesn't make them the same person.  Otherwise, you'd have to say the Arabic pagan moon god "Allah" is the Allah of the Quran.  :thumbsup:

 

Relevence?

 

Fact: Islam, Christendom and Judeism worship the same god. Burden of proof is on YOU to prove they do not. You have not proven anything, except that your knowledge on the topic of religion is severly lacking.

 

3.  Of course it means something.  If the Quran says that one faith is wrong, how can you be sure if the two gods are of the same nature?  And as for the verses you listed, yes God is one God, but he manifests in three different ways.  Islam teaches that Allah has only one form, one form only.  No trinity.

 

No. Islam teaches that there is one god. Not that he has only one form. He is infact attributed formlessness, and of being a shifting form.

 

4.  Of course it does.  And God is bound by his own nature to do things that are right.  Whereas Allah can do whatever he wants, and is capricious.

 

Where is Volourn when I need him?

 

Can I get a r00fles?

 

5.  In the Old Testament sense, before Jesus's sacrifice, it was punishment.  Remember, God is also just.  After Jesus's sacrfice, it was no longer necessary.

 

Honestly. You need to do some serious, serious research.

 

67. Allah never intervenes personally.  And no prophet was sent to save us in Jesus's sense.  Jesus was the Messiah and God himself.  Allah never did anything like that.  :thumbsup:

 

Wow. Just wow.

 

Allah is the creator of Jesus. Personally (in as much as one can make a God a person).

 

It don't get much more personal than that.

 

M I RITE FELLAS?

 

And if you really studied Islam, you'd know what I'm talking about when I refer to doctrines.  If you really studied Islam, you wouldn't need me to post verses.  8)  If you think I'm wrong, back it up with more than just calling me "blind man", otherwise you'll only make a fool out of yourself.  And until you're ready to stop name calling, we don't have much more to discuss.  :thumbsup:

 

LOLZ!

 

If I really studied Islam, I wouldn't need to post verses?

 

The verses disprove your statement, of course you want to discount them. It is rather laughable.

 

If you had bothered to even try to comprehend my posts, you'd realize that blind man isn't an insult.

 

Since I have disproven all your claims, and you are completely ready to disregard verse, I'm done with you. Good luck in your search for wisdom.

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We still have the original language texts available, including the Apocrypha.    :thumbsup:  Make your own judgement, I'll make mine.

 

HAHAHAHAHAAAAA!

 

You are a riot. The original scritpures were not even written down. The teachings of Christianity were a spoken tradition in order to hide the faith from the Romans, changing from teller to teller. It was a good hundred or so years after Jesus' death that these things were written down on parchment.

Edited by Judge Hades
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It's funny because it's true!

Lou Gutman, P.I.- It's like I'm not even trying anymore!
http://theatomicdanger.iforumer.com/index....theatomicdanger

One billion b-balls dribbling simultaneously throughout the galaxy. One trillion b-balls being slam dunked through a hoop throughout the galaxy. I can feel every single b-ball that has ever existed at my fingertips. I can feel their collective knowledge channeling through my viens. Every jumpshot, every rebound and three-pointer, every layup, dunk, and free throw. I am there.

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You haven't disproven me on anything. :thumbsup: Actually, most of what you've done has been either listing verses which I've disproven, or you calling me "blind man". And actually, you seem to be the one totally misinterpreting my posts. Fact: the nature of the Gods of Islam and Christianity are very different. :thumbsup: As I've said, we really don't have anything to say to each other, esp. since you obviously lack the maturity and ability to continue backing yourself up.

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We still have the original language texts available, including the Apocrypha.    ;)  Make your own judgement, I'll make mine.

 

HAHAHAHAHAAAAA!

 

You are a riot. The original scritpures were not even written down. The teachings of Christianity were a spoken tradition, changing from teller to teller for a good hundred years after Jesus.

 

Who wrote the Gospels? For that matter, who wrote Paul's letters? ;)

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At some point the verbal history and teachings of Christianity was set to paper by some religious person, but by that time the telling of the story became more grandoise.

 

The God of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam is indeed the same entity. God is not a stagnant creature that you make him out to be. He learns and grows just like us. After all we are a minor reflection of what he is.

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There is a lot of people stating "facts" but very little to back it up. I still have not seen verses or anything to go along with a lot of what is being said...

Lou Gutman, P.I.- It's like I'm not even trying anymore!
http://theatomicdanger.iforumer.com/index....theatomicdanger

One billion b-balls dribbling simultaneously throughout the galaxy. One trillion b-balls being slam dunked through a hoop throughout the galaxy. I can feel every single b-ball that has ever existed at my fingertips. I can feel their collective knowledge channeling through my viens. Every jumpshot, every rebound and three-pointer, every layup, dunk, and free throw. I am there.

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I don't think you understand the proverb.

is it... that everything is relative from one person to the next, so to argue about the truth is futile?

 

Close, but not exactly.

 

There is one truth; It was an elephant. However, since everyone was blind, feeling around in differing places and positions. Different ways and form, each man's view is flawed. The truth was there, the men could not see it.

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They didn't combine their knowledge to find the truth.

Lou Gutman, P.I.- It's like I'm not even trying anymore!
http://theatomicdanger.iforumer.com/index....theatomicdanger

One billion b-balls dribbling simultaneously throughout the galaxy. One trillion b-balls being slam dunked through a hoop throughout the galaxy. I can feel every single b-ball that has ever existed at my fingertips. I can feel their collective knowledge channeling through my viens. Every jumpshot, every rebound and three-pointer, every layup, dunk, and free throw. I am there.

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I don't think you understand the proverb.

is it... that everything is relative from one person to the next, so to argue about the truth is futile?

 

Close, but not exactly.

 

There is one truth; It was an elephant. However, since everyone was blind, feeling around in differing places and positions. Different ways and form, each man's view is flawed. The truth was there, the men could not see it.

ah, i see. so basically the belief that there is an absolute truth, but people can only deal with it relatively.

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Pixie, do not think that scripture is "fact" for it is not.  It is simply a subjective statement with the writer putting his own moral values into it.

 

 

I don't know who you are talking about.

 

Anyways, what I was saying was that Mothman likes to say a lot of things that sound like his own personal belief, and pass it off as fact.

Lou Gutman, P.I.- It's like I'm not even trying anymore!
http://theatomicdanger.iforumer.com/index....theatomicdanger

One billion b-balls dribbling simultaneously throughout the galaxy. One trillion b-balls being slam dunked through a hoop throughout the galaxy. I can feel every single b-ball that has ever existed at my fingertips. I can feel their collective knowledge channeling through my viens. Every jumpshot, every rebound and three-pointer, every layup, dunk, and free throw. I am there.

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