In What aspect is Kotor I better than II?

[Blaise Russel]

Sure, always welcome, but not in a game that has STAR WARS in major letters on the front.

 

If you buy a Star Wars game people expect a Star Wars-type of story. If you wan't a change call it different.

 

How would you think it if Baldur's Gate III was suddenly a Futuristic FPS. Odd, no? You would think "since it has nothing to do with it they would give it a unique name"?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There are ideas and concepts in the Star Wars mythos that could be really interesting and stimulating, were they given a darker, more adult and more complex slant. Another "Star Wars" story does not really allow for this, focused as it is on simple, straightforward repetition of epic good versus evil heroic fantasy.

 

(Hah, as if Star Wars came up with such stories, as if they are somehow 'intrinsic' to Star Wars.)

 

Regardless, your example is horrendously poor. I don't ask for a change of setting, I ask for a variety of interpretations of Star Wars ideas. I want darker and more complex interpretations of Star Wars not necessarily because they are somehow 'better' than lighter or simpler ones, but because there are plenty of the same old Star Wars stories and I'd like to take a slightly different look at the Force, at the Jedi and Sith, at the Republic and its citizens and everything else.

 

The universe is a big place. There's room for a lot more than just the one, single story, repeated ad nauseam.

[jedidotflow]

i enjoyed KOTOR 1 a lot more because it's finished. I must clarify that I am a Star Wars fan, but find the prequels as a horrible incident that I couldn't have avoided. With that said, KOTOR 1 feels more like "classic Star Wars" to me. I enjoyed it's simplicity and the way it immerses you into a brand new era. Granted, I wish the design aspect, at least technologically speaking, would look a bit more archaic and the lightsaber handles should've looked like the ones from the "Tales of the Jedi" comic series that predate the games. But that's just a minor nuissance.

 

The robes in KOTOR 2 looked cool and I enjoyed them the first time I played but now I feel as if they look WAY too much like the prequel robes. It makes the SW galaxy and the Jedi Order look somewhat stagnant... nowadays I enjoy the "robes" (more like tunics) from the first game because they feel more martial: after all the Jedi are at war.

 

As far as the "darker philosophy" goes, KOTOR 2 falls into the same category as many RPGs, mainly Final Fantasy 8: fancy, overexplained dialogues that pretend to be "deep." Don't get me wrong, I love to hate Kreia. She's a great character. Sion and Nihilus could've been great but completely fall short (although persuading sion to lose is cool). The whole gray morality is great, except that it's obviously evil. This is a bad reading of Nietzche, who's philosophy is highly flawed himself. It's interesting that they would do such a thing, and I hope they continue, but the game comes off as "too dark" and sometimes "unfriendly." Empire Strikes Back, the darkest Star Wars movie, begins in a white planet. Cloud City is a bright place, serving as a contrast to the thematic darkness revealed throughout the movie. KOTOR 2 is just way too dark. Even the Jedi Masters come off as dark. I know some people enjoyed this a lot, but it feels unbalanced to me.

 

Since this post is already too long, sorry about that, I won't event start on the fact that the game is incomplete AND to get the full story it must be played at least several times. I am sorry but I am a working university student and I don't have the time for multiple playthroughts just for the full experience that one playthrough should afford.

Edited January 12, 2006 by jedidotflow

[jedidotflow]

Also, darker doesn't mean more "adult" or "complex." For instance, Lord of the Rings saga is pretty starightforward and light but quite deep and adult if you take it as a mythology rather than just fantasy.

 

At the same time, I do enjoy darker views upon the Star Wars universe: just as long as they're coherent and COMPLETE.

 

Anyways, I love both games but the 1st a whole lot more. Doesn't mean I won't play the second one a couple of times though...

Edited January 12, 2006 by jedidotflow

[Grone]

Obsidian isn't the first game to rip off PST.

 

Didn't Black Isle create PS:T? Because then they technically stole their own ideas

[Volourn]

"Didn't Black Isle create PS:T? Because then they technically stole their own ideas"

 

Obsidian isn't Black Isle.

 

And, I;m sure Obsidian is creative enough not to need to use such ideas from games their developers mauy have worked on before either.

Edited January 12, 2006 by Volourn

[Reajeasa]

Maybe it's because I've made a conscious effort for 13 years not to touch anything Star Wars related with so much as a barge pole, but I just don't understand why exploring the darker themes of Star Wars is frowned upon. The Star Wars galaxy is a big place with a long history: what are the chances of it all being in black and white? Chances are, somewhere along the line someone has been faced with grey and confusion, like in the real world, and I don't have a problem with looking at that situation.

 

I can understand if people dislike things because they're dark. What I can't understand is if K2 is disliked because it's dark in the Star Wars universe. The odds of said universe being all sunshine and dasies and happy-endings-sailing-into-the-sunset and clear-cut black and white are very small indeed.

 

How would you think it if Baldur's Gate III was suddenly a Futuristic FPS. Odd, no? You would think "since it has nothing to do with it they would give it a unique name"?

 

I'm not very familiar with the BG series, never having played them myself, but I don't think this is the best example. There is a difference between completely changing the genre and setting of something and looking at the other side of the coin. Or the ridge between the sides.

 

I would like to elaborate on my points, but I'm being ordered to prepare for sleep.

[Elyk sith maurder]

i like KOTOR 1 better mostly the fact that there is a guy locked in a locker saying "here fishy here fishy" and you can stab him. thats one of my favorite parts :D (i like the darkside it seems to be "fishy") LOL

[Chupacabra]

I completely forgot about that! I played the game three times and never noticed that dialogue option. Just goes to show how observant I am. Luckily, I'm on my first DS playthrough, so I'll be able to try it out.

[Tha Cunnysmythe]

I found KOTORI to be a much more enjoyable game. Better character interaction, more variation between planets, more evil...

 

KOTOR2 did a lot of things well - Better interface, configuration/upgrades, deeper roleplay and what remains of the story... But it's not as much fun. Simple as that. The blandness of the environments and frustration as nothing is ever revealed or resolved leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Not to mention that many of the characters are dull and underdeveloped.

[Phaedra36]

In my opinion, I liked Kotor II more than I. Why? Better storyline, better dialouge, quests actually seemed like they were natural instead of skewed like Kotor I's quests were. It just seemed that they were put in there, but you had to do so many other things on the side while in Kotor II it seemed you could do things in succession. Kotor II also had way better skills and powers, and the influence thing made it more realistic.

Yes Kotor II was a darker story, but at the current storyline..everything would seem dark if people were living in that kind of world. I expect Kotor III to be even darker (out on the Outer Rim) and then either further into the darkness at the end or incredibly light at the end depending on alignment choices.

Things that the first Kotor rocked at was: Even though Kotor II won in the hand of dialouge, it was sadly limited and Kotor I's was not. The movement was more free-flowing (I hated how my char. ran in the second one), and did have more of a classic star wars feel while the second one had more of a Episode II-III kinda feel to it. o.0

[Guest MacLeodCorp]

I think that Kotor I feels more like Star Wars universe somehow?  Kotor II doesn't make me beleive in the story line.  When i'm playing Kotor II, I'm not as involved in the story as Kotor I.  but i don't know why that is.  Wat do u guys think?  :cool:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kotor2 was probably aimed more at the crpg crowd than the sw crowd (just a suspicion) ?

 

Star Wars seems be all about simple, clear cut situations (any problem should be solvable with a lightsaber) these days

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with this man!

[DarthVala]

That's why the player should go without a lightsaber until later in that game, say level 20.

[GreasyDogMeat]

I thought KoTOR 2 was a more mature story. It also got me involved more and excited more when things started to heat up in the last section of the game.

 

I also enjoyed the upredictability of your buddies. In KoTOR 1 it was all a case of "we'll follow you to the death, even if some of us are total dark siders!" while in KoTOR 2 I felt this genuine mistrust and suspicion of some of the characters.

 

I, personally, liked that. I really enjoyed the betrayal in KoTOR 2, even if you could see it a mile away.

 

I have no argument with those who say KoTOR 1 is more star warsy than KoTOR 2, but I have no issue with that if they can tell a good story & I think KoTOR 2 did a fine job of that.

[Lancer]

I think it is pretty much a no-brainer.

 

KOTOR2 wasn't even a finished product. The last third of the game was a confusing hodgepodge of rushed events. Because of that, KOTOR1 felt more polished, had a cleaner, better storyline, and a better plot twist.

 

KOTOR1 > KOTOR2

[Kalfear]

Well for me:

 

The strenghts of K1 were:

 

1) Epic Story Line

 

K1 definately had the more epic feeling storyline

 

2) New Star Wars Game

 

K1 was something new and exciting in a genre that had gone all FPS. That alone is why so many say they prefer K1. It was the original.

 

3) Interesting side stories for NPC party members not related to the main storyline.

 

Having the totally seperate stories helped form some of the party NPC characters like Missions Brother, Bastillas mother, Carths son, Jollees friends murder trial.

 

K2s strenghts:

 

1) More character driven story.

 

K2 lacked the grand epic feel K1 had but its characters played a much more interesting and important part in the main story then K1 NPC party members did.

 

2) Darker story.

 

K2 was much more adult orientated, it had plots and sub plots were as with K1, what you saw is what you got.

 

3) Better romance:

 

The Visas and Handmaiden romances totally blew away Bastilla's. Still Mira should have also been a option! (note: Handmaidens was the best by a long shot of any of them)

 

4) More interesting Villians:

 

Malak in K1 was just a retried Darth Vader wanna be! Sion, Traya, Nimus were hands and tails better then Malak as a Villain.

 

5) being able to make your party members into jedi!

 

Lets face it, the mass majority of people play these games for the jedi! So the more jedi in your group the better! And if the story is interesting to get them to jedi, all the better!

 

Best of both worlds:

 

I really hope if there is a part 3 it will continue with the party members having a part in the main story like K2 did BUT also having seperate non main storyline quests/stories like K1 did. Really think both games would have been better if this was added to both of them rather then either or type senario!

[BattleCookiee]

3) Better romance:

 

The Visas and Handmaiden romances totally blew away Bastilla's. Still Mira should have also been a option! (note: Handmaidens was the best by a long shot of any of them)

 

 

Ugh. Handmaiden I can see (altough I do not agree), but Visas?

 

Visas comes to the Hawk to kill your character

Visas: "I vill be your doom" "

Exile; chop chop

Visas patched up again in 2 sec. Exile visit her in the back

Visas: "My life for yours"

Exile: "So, where are you from""

Visas: "Katarr"

Exile (sudden ): Wow. I love you now. Can I charge up your loading romp?

 

Not my idea of a "good" romance...

[DarthVala]

Visas: "I vill be your doom"  "

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

When did Visas suddenly become Cathar??

[CoM_Solaufein]

I wouldn't call Kotor 2 having better romances, they had more romance options. Both game romances were basically the same, not romances in the true sense compared to other games.

 

Kotor 2 was darker an aspect that I liked about it.

[Dyan]

Spoilers down below (since I forgot to add spoiler tags the first time around)

 

 

 

 

I don't like the chemistry in K2. There is a different sort of atmosphere to that of K1; darker, mistrust as others have commented on, but... there is a definite lack of light-hearted replies. The air is far more "tense", especially on-board the Ebon Hawk. It's like everyone hates each other. If the Exile really *can* "force bond" people and influence them, then why are his allies already ready to rip out each other's throats?

 

That was something I didn't like. In K1, there was a definite feeling of "comrade"-ship between party members. I mean, they joked/teased one another - I mean, Mission & Carth had lines, so did Bastila and Mission, Canderous & Bastila, as a couple of examples off the top of my head. They felt as though they were well, more than just "fighters" for you. You could ask them about each world and things. In K2, I don't think you could really do that. It wasn't the same.

 

So in that, I think K1 was better than K2.

 

Of course, K2's influence system, graphics and interface were better than K1s. Not to mention the AI and stances and being able to use "Destroy Droid" on mines.

 

I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but K2 felt a lot more... bland, I guess. The "Worlds touched by war" all felt... almost dead. There wasn't really a sense of "life" to them that K1 had. I mean, on Tatooine(sp?) you could see the vastness for miles; the suns were *bright*. On Manaan, for all its fishy flaws, the sun was shining and underwater felt different to being above ground. Every world had its own unique feel or flow of "life" to it. K2's... it felt... deadened, almost. Not Duxn, but even that bore scars. I know that it was intended, but I think they went overboard with the whole "dying/echos of war" thing. There wasn't much in K2 that really made me smile at all.

 

Also, in K1, you got those fun little sidequests, where you could smuggle that spice to the guy on Korriban and deliver that "mysterious box" to that hutt on tatooine. And the gizka and that girl, Sasha. In K2, there wasn't any of that stuff. Okay, you're off to find the Jedi masters, but what about the small stuff?

 

Then in K1, there was the replay value of announcing to the worlds that you were Revan. "Which planet do I leave until last this time?" In K2, there's none of that. No grand revelation as to who/what you are. I mean, Kreia tells you a bit, but... its not like you can declare your love for Atris or anything like that. I mean, she won't even hand you back your lightsaber. It would have been nice to see more from the masters - even Atris in K2. Their role was too insignificant, I feel. Granted, in K1 they only really had a few lines, but at least they were *there* for you to access. And the fact no one really commented on Atris other than mild surprise was a bit of a downer too. None of them ask where she is when they reassemble on Dantonine.

 

In K1 after your "fourth starmap" at least you've got another more solid reason to go after Malak. You don't know if any of your former 'brothers'/masters are still alive and this time, you really are the Galaxy's Last Hope(tm? ). It really does put the pressure on from a story point of view. Malak's destroyed your home (twice, if you include your former flagship), you've no one left to turn to and really, the Starforge is all that awaits. It's got a nicer sense of climax to it than K2.

 

K2's sense of anticipation... it felt rushed, quite frankly. After Dantonine(I know I'm really butchering the spellings - one day I'll get it right), you went back to Telos (all paths lead to Telos, heh), and so on and so on. It lacked the "epic" to it. And honestly, all three Sith Lords were a disappointment (Atris is a jedi, not a sith imho so she doesn't count). "Alien-speak" sucked, both in terms of combat, but more so in interaction. I couldn't even *attempt* to turn him back to the light. Sion was a bit better, but not by much. And as for the end boss... well, "chat, chat, fight, chat, chat, chat." The end boss seemed more desperate but at the same time, nonchallant. It really felt like:

"So you got here, finally. Took you long enough."

"Yeah, so what now?"

"We fight!"

"Oh, okay."

*Fight fight*

"Now what?"

"You've beaten me..."

"Yeah, I know."

"Now I get to die, but I'll answer your questions first."

"Please don't - oh, go on then."

"Blah blah blah."

 

With K1, it was sad when Malak fell. Kinda. It struck me as ironic as to Bastila's comments if you tell her you tried to save him.

"No one really expected you to try, I'm surprised you did." (words to that effect).

Irony headache. It's too bad there wasn't a reply of: "Like how the council saved me, and I saved first jahunai(sp) and you? Yeah, of course I wasn't going to try. *roll eyes*"

 

Overall, I preferred K1. K2 was definately more "interesting", but... K1 appeals to me more, despite the clich

Edited February 5, 2006 by Dyan

[BattleCookiee]

Of course, K2's influence system, graphics and interface were better than K1s. Not to mention the AI and stances and being able to use "Destroy Droid" on mines.

 

AI/Stances better?

 

You mean the non-functunal (except for ATTACK ALL IN SIGHT-stance) stances and the "You gave me orders for Push, Lightning and then a Flurry, so I will just go in and fight with the Regular Attack" AI?

[Dyan]

Of course, K2's influence system, graphics and interface were better than K1s. Not to mention the AI and stances and being able to use "Destroy Droid" on mines.

 

AI/Stances better?

 

You mean the non-functunal (except for ATTACK ALL IN SIGHT-stance) stances and the "You gave me orders for Push, Lightning and then a Flurry, so I will just go in and fight with the Regular Attack" AI?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

That's the one, yeah .

 

All right. Maybe K2's AI wasn't better. I just like to think it is. I know! I'm fooling myself! <_<

[Knights&Darths]

I thought KoTOR 2 was a more mature story. It also got me involved more and excited more when things started to heat up in the last section of the game.

 

I also enjoyed the upredictability of your buddies. In KoTOR 1 it was all a case of "we'll follow you to the death, even if some of us are total dark siders!" while in KoTOR 2 I felt this genuine mistrust and suspicion of some of the characters.

 

I, personally, liked that. I really enjoyed the betrayal in KoTOR 2, even if you could see it a mile away.

 

I have no argument with those who say KoTOR 1 is more star warsy than KoTOR 2, but I have no issue with that if they can tell a good story & I think KoTOR 2 did a fine job of that.

me too

also i really liked Atris'fall to the dark side, doubt, regret, jealousy and lightning hate, nothing like Bastila's if i may say so, still the evil Bastila is something none has been able to forget, she was just awesome and smoking hot. another thing, when Kreia speaks i really feel like she has a thing or two to teach, always worth listening, and i really felt i was important to her and not just for love but for something more, the very meaning of her life, her ultimate purpose. maybe i played too much k1 but i tire of being the invincible boss learning things on my own and force-chocking people around or handing loads of credits to beggars, in k2 i was the apprentice of an ever-busy omnipresent and proud master, i have crime bosses, murderers and sith lords in my party, their trust is to be earned and they're self-sufficient, almost stealing the scene. also i kind of like the fact that your power "does not stem from the force" but from who you are, your own strengths, imho the main char is really more interesting in k2, still k2 made Revan much much more interesting than he/she was in k1, giving purpose and meaning to his/her early path and god help us making us meet the master.

[GreasyDogMeat]

'SPOILERS' of course...

 

I think the characters were developed much better in KoTOR II. I really enjoyed Kreia. Despite her lack of... charisma, every word she spoke felt like it carried weight and was important. Even later in the game I couldn't really bring myself to hate her and I was very glad they added the line about it not being too late.

 

While KoTOR 2 may not have been as epic in scope, I think they did a much better job of making you feel threatened. Part of what put me at ease in the first game was that all of your characters were so loyal to you, even the ones who were of a different alignment. Just look at what Mission says on the unknown planet when you turn dark side. "I still believe in you! You wouldn't kill me!" etc.

 

In KoTOR 2, the game is just filled with malice and unease, and I frankly enjoyed that more than the original's brighter more cheery story. From the very start of the game there was this uncomfortable feeling, that you should leave Paragus ASAP and that forces were watching you. Then there was Kreia's speech about not staying in one spot for too long etc.

 

I also really enjoyed the feeling of being betrayed by the Jedi Order. Playing a character resentful of being kicked out when they did what they thought was right. It aslo gave a MUCH more tangible reason for falling to the dark side. The resent of being cast out seething and growing stronger until the character falls to the darkside, unable to forgive the characters who banished him/her.

 

In KoTOR one it just seemed to be about being mean for no apparent reason, but in KoTOR II it felt more like your character had a reason for being such a jerk if you went dark side.

 

I also loved all of the conspiracies that were brought up in KoTOR II. The miners who try to sell you to the exchange, the weird signal around Nar Shadaa that an alien discovers.

 

I think Obsidian is very good and creating an atmosphere of unease and suspicion. Many of the members are from black isle, and Icewind Dale also did this very well.

 

I didn't have very high hopes for it as a sequel. How could it be better than KoTOR 1? But I soon felt myself being drawn into the story more, wanting to find out what was going to happen next. The problem was, of course, when it got to the climax and most of the really interesting questions were just dropped.

[Phaedra36]

Spoilers ~

 

Kotor I had better romance? >.> I only played through Kotor I almost twice (at the Star Forge) and Kotor II once. Bastila conflicted with her emotions so much, I didn't know if she was ever going to love Revan. Carth and Revan had a better romantic storyline, but he spent half the game hating me and then when I finally got him to tell me about Dustil..then he began to like me at a much more rapid pace.

In Kotor II, Atton and the Exile had a much better beginning and middle stages of a relationship. It never got to where they said they loved each other, but there was flirting and the,"Do you think she and I...?" I mean, it was made apparent but at the end Kreia just wound up saying that Atton knew he was never good enough for the exile and was a fool. Doesn't leave a lot of closure to your average rpg gamer. >.>

In my opinion, I don't think that I or II were epic at all.The first one was getting to know the characters, getting to know the problem at hand, and taking your first steps in dealing with it. Friends and enemies are made. The second one is heightening the problem at hand, meeting new friends and enemies, and left very open-ended so when the devs make it, they have many options at hand.

Edited February 5, 2006 by Phaedra36

[Knights&Darths]

the romance aspect in k2 really pissed me off, really. you start the game with this handsome *prisoner* who flirts with you nonstop (also some of the flirting with Atton was cut), then the disappointment, he even says

that he wanted to protect you just to pay back that jedi tramp who showed him the Force

. Disciple is too much of a gentlemen to try hitting on you but i can't seem to appreciate that. Visas at least say

"i love you"

Edited February 6, 2006 by jinger