When will it end?

[LadyCrimson]

Judge Hades, there is some truth & realism to your point of view, but you are taking those cynical truths and turning it into an extremist way of living/viewing the world.

 

You have given up hope and the heart to even leave open the option to help other people outside your own small circle, and that path, IMO, leads to self-immolation at some point or another - not only for yourself but for the world at large if everyone succumbed to it.

 

As to Iraq - I think we shouldn't have gone in with guns blazing, 9/11 or not - I was pretty disappointed when fear after 9/11 had so many public polls saying we should go stomp 'em out, as if you could get rid of terrorism that way - but now that we're in it, I don't think we should just up and leave them to chaos, either. But I do think Bush is a stupid self-serving ignoramus who will probably fumble and bungle the situation, and I wish it would end.

[Judge Hades]

Really? 

 

And what about the ministers I've seen paying out of their own pockets to feed someone in need?  I've seen soldiers helping civilians in foreign countries.  I've seen schools organizing fundraisers to help victims of hurricane Katrina.  I've seen people take bombs off buses in order to save the occupants within (some of you have probably heard of this story).  And I've seen people from my own country go to places like Haiti and sleep in the dirt in order to help the suffering over there, and in fact in the name of a God who may in fact give a shat.  "I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these...you did for me."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And tell me, dear Mothman, what is the motivation of that minister? Is he doing so out of the goodness of his heart or does he do so because he will be richly rewarded in heaven, Doing this act for his own spiritual greed? You cannot just see the act but what is the motivation behind it.

 

That is your life experiences and not mine. Also don't spout God's worthless rhetoric. If God really cared for his children he wouldn't have made three religions that are trying to kill each other for His favor.

[Plano Skywalker]

this may sound like an anti-war or anti-US statement but it is not.

it is simply an observation.

 

the U.S. has been a beacon of hope to the rest of the world.

it has also been the world's last remaining colonial power.

it is day and it is night....understand? ok, if you do, please read on.

 

colonial powers need to assert their strength from time to time.

that is what Iraq is....a chance to gain hegemony in the region.

this helps secure the flow of oil (which is "the engine of freedom" in a sense)

to the rest of the world and it helps take some heat off of Israel

(which, all told, amount to "good guys" in that region).

 

and then there is the "flypaper" argument. if Al-Qaida fights us in Iraq,

then there is less they can do in other places.

 

it is not any one reason but a host of reasons.

WMD and "spreading liberty" are strawmen arguments for TV.

even if Iraq becomes a democracy, it will likely follow the Russian model:

an oil-rich, pseudo-democratic oligarchy.

[Judge Hades]

WTF? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think I have been playing too much Bloodlines.

 

Um... War is bad. M'kay.

 

*goes back playing Bloodlines*

Edited December 29, 2005 by Judge Hades

[Dark Moth]

And tell me, dear Mothman, what is the motivation of that minister?  Is he doing so out of the goodness of his heart or does he do so because he will be richly rewarded in heaven, Doing this act for his own spiritual greed?  You cannot just see the act but what is the motivation behind it.

 

That is your life experiences and not mine.  Also don't spout God's worthless rhetoric.  If God really cared for his children he wouldn't have made three religions that are trying to kill each other for His favor.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How do you know what is motivation is? Maybe he's doing it out of both. Maybe out of only one. If he weren't a minister, what would you say then? And at least he's doing something, isnt' he? I think another one of your problems is that you've had so many bad experiences you now look for the negative side of any situation and refuse to see anything positive come out of it.

 

As for God, we've had enough to say about this already. I will say that it's rather pessimistic and unfounded to think God designed three religions for the soul purpose of seeing humans kill each other, or that he even made all three religions for that matter. "He who lives by the sword will die by the sword."

 

Good night. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go and play Doom 3.

Edited December 29, 2005 by Mothman

[Gabrielle]

WTF? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think I have been playing too much Bloodlines.

 

Um... War is bad. M'kay.

 

*goes back playing Bloodlines*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My thread was being sabotaged.

[Judge Hades]

Yeah, but one who stays home and not bother anyone gets a long life.

 

Sorry, Gabs.

 

Its just this whole war in Iraq is very depressing. I mean we went over there to do what? The guy was not a threat to the US on US soil. Hell, he was not even a threat to his neighbors. It has been an act opf hubris on Bush's part and it just to show that you can;'t trust anyone. Everyone has their own agenda and that is to fulfill their desires first. Bush just wanted a war to continue the momentum to "stay the course."

 

He has no conscience thought about our soldiers being killed over there. To politicians such as he they are only numbers.

Edited December 29, 2005 by Judge Hades

[Gabrielle]

No sex either. "

[Surreptishus]

maybe, but its a boring crappy unfulfilled life.

[Judge Hades]

Better than getting stabbed with a knife. I know that by experience to, thanks to my ex.

[Surreptishus]

So going out and social interaction = getting stabbed ?

[Judge Hades]

It did in my case.

[Child of Flame]

IT ENDS WHEN I SAY IT DOES!

[Moose]

We'll blame you for all the dead soldiers then.

[Diamond]

Thank you Hades, now I feel the sudden urge to go out and live a full life.

What you say is really really sad and I hope you don't mean it.

[11XHooah]

We'll leave Iraq when we leave Iraq. I just hope I get the chance to go over there and help out before we do.

[213374U]

And this is one reason I'm glad people like you aren't in charge of the world.

Aren't they? Hm...

 

I wonder who's living in a fantasy world. "

 

 

I have.

 

I have seen ministers raping children.  I have seen soldiers killing unarmed civilians.  I have seen corproate big wigs rake in the cash while the people they lord over live in misery.  I have seen politicians lie, wage needless wars, and the such just to feed their own hubris.  I have seen people kill each other for some worthless God that deoesn't even give a shat.  My eyes are open and I see the human race without redemption.

Sorry about that. It's the price of free will.

 

Then again, perhaps free will is overrated.

[Commissar]

We have goals in Iraq. Anyone actually involved with the whole affair, or potentially involved, could tell you what they are. We're staying and allowing the Iraqi defense forces to gradually take on more and more responsibility in dealing with the insurgency, while phasing our own guys out. Our plan isn't to "beat" the insurgency, it's to hand the problem to the Iraqis when they're capable of handing it, and then high-tail it out of there to let them run their own security, and their own country, for that matter.

 

It would be a much better plan if there were timetables set; the entire strategy over there depends entirely on perception. I was never taught to tell my boss, "Well, I have no idea when I'll get this done, to tell you the truth; it'll get done when it gets done." It's also seeming more and more like Iraq's going to end up something of a theocracy, which could very well push it right into Iran's open arms, so it's entirely possible we massively screwed up. Nothing really to do now save wait and see.

 

Defenders of this strategy will tell you that it's been working, since we haven't had a successful attack on the United States by terrorist elements. They've been too busy in Iraq. Detractors will tell you that, despite al-Qaeda's definite involvement in Iraq, they've still managed to hit Spain and the UK - ignoring the fact that the UK's problem was home-grown, of course. I don't know which point of view is correct, though I suspect it's a mix of both.

 

I also don't think we can perform an immediate pullout, like many seem to be calling for. We broke it, and therefore we bought it; we're under an obligation to leave the country capable of fending for itself.

[julianw]

It's also seeming more and more like Iraq's going to end up something of a theocracy, which could very well push it right into Iran's open arms, so it's entirely possible we massively screwed up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which brings about another question: has the war in Iraq really improved our national security in the long run? Remember how quickly some of US's past allies in the Middle East turned against us?

[Commissar]

It's also seeming more and more like Iraq's going to end up something of a theocracy, which could very well push it right into Iran's open arms, so it's entirely possible we massively screwed up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which brings about another question: has the war in Iraq really improved our national security in the long run? Remember how quickly some of US's past allies in the Middle East turned against us?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't particularly think so, but it's hard to tell at this point. Ten years down the road we'll be able to make that determination.

[BattleCookiee]

Would nations full of young Moslims who love to get themselves trained for a Jihad help your national security?

 

And about Iraq, the mess is because beyond "Anihilate all enemies" there was no plan. They just have to make day-to-day a evolution that would take years for any country...

 

And about if Iraq really became a better place? Let's just say: Abu Graib (sp?) and Lyndie England...

[Commissar]

Would nations full of young Moslims who love to get themselves trained for a Jihad help your national security?

 

And about Iraq, the mess is because beyond "Anihilate all enemies" there was no plan. They just have to make day-to-day a evolution that would take years for any country...

 

And about if Iraq really became a better place? Let's just say: Abu Graib (sp?) and Lyndie England...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Out of idle curiosity, who discovered and publicized the whole Abu Ghraib abuse thing? I'm trying to remember...

[Judge Hades]

Does it matter?

 

I have to agree with Battlewookie. If we never went to Iraq Lindie England would never been in that situation in the first place. She is a soldier just doing as she is told without any training to do as she was told. Who becomes the scapegoat in that affair. England. Who is the blame? Her commanding officiers up the food chain right to Bushie. All are responsible, all should face criminal charges.

[Delta Truth]

The only person that has ever helped me is me alone.  I do my own thing and make my own way through life.  I help others when I feel it is appropraite but only immediate family, which is only my mother really, or one or two close friends.  If a person cannot survive on their own without the reliance of others then they are at fault.

 

That is how the real world works.  If you rely too much on others you become a liability.  If you cannot take care of yourself you become a parasite.    I learn long ago if you are going to be anything in this life you have to do it yourself and not expect or take handouts.

 

Helping the weak will only keep them weak.  However if they show the drive to better themselves on their own teaching them to be more self sufficient would be the next step.  Problem is that the Iraqi people, as a whole, went limp and let the dictator rule them like he did.  They deserved Saddam.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Do you subscribe to Milton Friedman theory of economic's "

[Judge Hades]

Never heard of him.

 

I am just saying you need to look out for number one. The purpose of government is to look out for the lives of its own citizens first and foremost. When a government fails to do so then it is up to the people to remove that government and put one in its place that will. It isn't up to another country to do that.

 

If the Iraqi people wanted to remove Saddam from power then they would have if they were strong enough. If they weren't then to bad for them.