Planescape: Torment

[Aroid]

There is no trend towards simpler games. Thats something a bunch of marketing analysts, managers and other chumps made up. Its sad, really sad, that there has never been a game of similar quality since then.

 

Everyone is tired of mind-numbing games. There are enough morons who produce stupid games for stupid people. The whole game industry degenerates to a money-producing fastfood steamroller, knocking down all the innovative ideas (and the good old ones too). The same thing happened to the movie industry years ago. Yes there are good films, but its not the majority.

 

The only ones who can save this are the developers themselves, by not producing crap and make the monkeys with the deep pockets realise it.

 

If anyone from obsidian reads this, please, make great games like Planescape: Torment again.

And even if it only sells "ok", dont start to produce crap.

[metadigital]

Aroid, I'd like you to meet economics.

 

 

If a game is a critical success, but isn't popular, then it won't inspire ANYONE to make more of them.

 

Why would a business want to invest in something that doesn't yield a decent return? Philanthropy? What colour is the sky in your world ...?

[Aroid]

I bet only money makes you happy.

[Hurlshort]

I agree with both of you, but remember that game development is much like an ocean. PS:T was a high tide moment, but it didn't last. The ocean receded. But PS:T would never have been possible without the success of Fallout, Baldurs Gate and Icewind Dale. They raised the tide.

 

I heppen to think the tide is on the rise. KotOR I and II were successful, NWN has watched the tide lower and rise, and Jade Empire may help push it higher. It really depends on the success of TES: Oblivion and a few other titles...if they do well then we might recapture the RPG height that PS:T was released at.

 

And yeah, money is pretty dang important. It's the moon, and us gamers are the water. Or maybe it's the other way around...

[roshan]

I agree that planescape toiirment is the best game ever.

 

AFAIK IWD was released after PST. Alsoi pst woiiuild have been released with oir withoiuit balduirs gate as planescape toirments develoipment preceded the release oifi balduirs gate, and at that time it wasnt expected that ablduiris gate woiuild be a huige suiccess.

[Atreides]

Economics will dictate most business decisions unless you have a philantropist to bankroll things. What can be said is if Planescape did have the hype machine of today or some of the better ones in its day it would have probably done better.

 

On the other hand, Planescape did get very high scores on many review sites so that should count as significant promotion.

[metadigital]

I bet only money makes you happy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let me introduce you to a new term: realism.

 

Now, I know you might be familiar with this term in a gaming environment, but I would like to appraise you of the RL meaning: I am what is known as a realist.

 

To answer your implied question / threat / wager, No, actually: money is a means to an end and certainly not the be-all and end-all of my existence.

 

Just because I understand the system doesn't mean I like it, just that I understand it.

 

Don't shoot the messenger.

[roshan]

Noi game that coimies cloisie toii planescape toiriment will ever be released. This is a sad and uinfoirituinate fact oif life.

[GhostofAnakin]

Noi game that coimies cloisie toii planescape toiriment will ever be released. This is a sad and uinfoirituinate fact oif life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, that's an opinion not a fact.

[roshan]

Thats noiti an oipinioin. The fact is that the laws of the market makes it almoisit impoissible that a game like pst will be made. Alsoi lightning doiiesnt strike in the same place twice.

[GhostofAnakin]

Thats noiti an oipinioin. The fact is that the laws of the market makes it almoisit impoissible that a game like pst will be made. Alsoi lightning doiiesnt strike in the same place twice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I meant it's your opinion that no game will come close to PS:T will ever be made. Unless I misunderstood what you meant, since I figured you meant PS:T was some sort of benchmark for greatness. If that's not what you meant, then disregard what I said.

[Craigboy2]

There is no trend towards simpler games. Thats something a bunch of marketing analysts, managers and other chumps made up. Its sad, really sad, that there has never been a game of similar quality since then.

 

Everyone is tired of mind-numbing games. There are enough morons who produce stupid games for stupid people. The whole game industry degenerates to a money-producing fastfood steamroller, knocking down all the innovative ideas (and the good old ones too). The same thing happened to the movie industry years ago. Yes there are good films, but its not the majority.

 

The only ones who can save this are the developers themselves, by not producing crap and make the monkeys with the deep pockets realise it.

 

If anyone from obsidian reads this, please, make great games like Planescape: Torment again.

And even if it only sells "ok", dont start to produce crap.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think alot of people have played Planescape: Torment but it didn't sell well when it first came out in 98.

 

I agree that planescape toiirment is the best game ever.

 

AFAIK IWD was released after PST. Alsoi pst woiiuild have been released with oir withoiuit balduirs gate as planescape toirments develoipment preceded the release oifi balduirs gate, and at that time it wasnt expected that ablduiris gate woiuild be a huige suiccess.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is there something wrong with your keyboard? Yes IWD was released after Ps:T but Ps:T didn't sell well at all when it was released. After some people played and liked IWD would probably like to play some of BI/ Interplay's previous games like Ps:T.

[roshan]

Oh oik, I meant in terms oif the type oifi gameplay.

 

Anyway I alsoi doi think that noi game will come cloise in terms oif greatness buit I doi agree that that is my oiipinioin, since there are many peoiiple whoi doi noiiti have the ability toi appreciate the greatness oif planescape toirment.

[Guest Fishboot]

Actually I think the economic bias against self-conciously erudite or experimental games comes in large part from the price drops that the industry forces on games that have been out for any significant amount of time. That creates an imperative for games to make their money quickly after release. Erudite and experimental games need word of mouth and a cult of reputation. Books are very good at this - Chaucer is still making money.

 

I mean, PS:T has a reputation among gamers now; If you say PS:T is your favorite game of all time, the video game taste police will nod sagely and consider you a pretty clever guy. People would pay for that reputation, except they don't have to - that PS:T dual jewel is almost free, and there is nothing like film's Criterion DVDs that could trade on the game's reputation for intelligence.

 

I don't really know the corrective here. Maybe when graphics/content creation technology levels off a game will be able to exist for a few years without seeming obsolete, and games won't have to hack their price point down to nothing by nine months after their release.

[GhostofAnakin]

since there are many peoiiple whoi doi noiiti have the ability toi appreciate the greatness oif planescape toirment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not sure I agree with this statement either. Not that I dislike PS:T. Matter of fact, I enjoyed it. But I'm not sure what you mean by "do not have the ability to appreciate". If you mean its complexity, I got it. I just don't herald it as much as others do.

[Craigboy2]

Actually I think the economic bias against self-conciously erudite or experimental games comes in large part from the price drops that the industry forces on games that have been out for any significant amount of time. That creates an imperative for games to make their money quickly after release. Erudite and experimental games need word of mouth and a cult of reputation. Books are very good at this - Chaucer is still making money.

 

I mean, PS:T has a reputation among gamers now; If you say PS:T is your favorite game of all time, the video game taste police will nod sagely and consider you a pretty clever guy. People would pay for that reputation, except they don't have to - that PS:T dual jewel is almost free, and there is nothing like film's Criterion DVDs that could trade on the game's reputation for intelligence.

 

I don't really know the corrective here. Maybe when graphics/content creation technology levels off a game will be able to exist for a few years without seeming obsolete, and games won't have to hack their price point down to nothing by nine months after their release.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ya I bought Ps:T at Fry's for $4.20 (USA) but who is so cheap that they're no willing to shell out five bucks. Even though it took me a month to beat it because I had become a graphic Nazi.

[Aroid]

@metadigital

 

Telling me that "the world is like it is" doesnt help anyone but you trying to to aggrandize yourself. Its like the carrot in my garden vegetating towards its lifes end while stating this, it wouldnt change anything.

 

Sorry for misinterpreting your first statement, but that was all I read out of it.

Its great to see that you dont like this system.

[Lancer]

Planescape:Torment is simply the greatest RPG ever made on any platform. It's greatness has already been explained to death by myself and many others on this board (and others)and so if you haven't played it yet.. Then shame on you.

It's a perennial classic.

[metadigital]

Actually I think the economic bias against self-conciously erudite or experimental games comes in large part from the price drops that the industry forces on games that have been out for any significant amount of time. That creates an imperative for games to make their money quickly after release. Erudite and experimental games need word of mouth and a cult of reputation. Books are very good at this - Chaucer is still making money.

 

I mean, PS:T has a reputation among gamers now; If you say PS:T is your favorite game of all time, the video game taste police will nod sagely and consider you a pretty clever guy. People would pay for that reputation, except they don't have to - that PS:T dual jewel is almost free, and there is nothing like film's Criterion DVDs that could trade on the game's reputation for intelligence.

 

I don't really know the corrective here. Maybe when graphics/content creation technology levels off a game will be able to exist for a few years without seeming obsolete, and games won't have to hack their price point down to nothing by nine months after their release.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Avoiding the traps and trappings of big production companies might help.

 

Perhaps Valve's Steam mechanism (or others like it) might provide enough independence from the constraints of the shallow high street game store selling model to allow for cheaper release prices, and a more sustained value overall.

 

That said, a lot of good games command higher prices for longer after their release. Half-Life 2 is still in the Top 5, Rome: Total War is near the Top 10; even KotOR:TSL is still in the Top 20, although I don't know how many games you have to sell to make the Top 20 in a bad month " (figures for the UK, as of last month's publishing deadline, so that might be a few months old, at worst).

 

With a delivery mechanism that removes most of the up-front fixed cost of selling a game, the returns for smaller enterprises will be proportional to larger ones; i.e. it will be a linear relationship, not one where smaller companies automatically go bankrupt unless they develop the next Doom or Half-Life.

 

I'm hoping that means a lot of smaller development houses get modest returns on their smaller projects (i.e. not 100+ hours of complex interlayered multiple pathway RPG stories with realtime combat, ragdoll interative real physics, and a 3DMark05 demand of 25000).

[Plano Skywalker]

the problem with producing dialogue-heavy, story-intensive games is that they must now be done within a framework of eye candy graphics, cinematic cutscreens, and voice acting. (also PST used a pregen...a shortcut device to making a truely immersive game).

 

that is not to say it can't happen....I think TSL could have been a true gem with about 6 more months of development time and about 40-50 hours of content.

[metadigital]

Okay, I happen to have recent figures on voice acting. The cost of a voice actor is apporximately $500 an hour. So, given theat there might be 10 hours of voice over, and that may take ten times as long to create, you have a grand total of $50000. Now considering that budgets for a "standard" game are now pegged at $10M, you can see that adding voices is about

[Guest Fishboot]

Avoiding the traps and trappings of big production companies might help.

Perhaps Valve's Steam mechanism (or others like it) might provide enough independence from the constraints of the shallow high street game store selling model to allow for cheaper release prices, and a more sustained value overall.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm also hoping that Steam blows up the publisher Death Star and uh, uses atomics on the Harkonnen business model.

[Archmonarch]

Two things.

 

Roshan: Use extra I's much?

 

Aroid: This is an internet forum, composed of many differing views and styles. All (in most cases) are equally valid. Do not be so quick to attack someone in the future, should you desire a pleasant stay here. We have enough trolls as it is.

[metadigital]

[Sargallath Abraxium]

...actually, PS:T did pretty well over time; Feargus hisself said that on more than a few occassions on the ol' BIS Boards...it jus' wasna a smashing success out o' the gate and BIS was in the proccess o' bein' in a hurt locker fer a smashing success, which ne'er really materialized, more's the pity...why'd ya think theys road the coattails o' BIOweenia fer soo damn long; cuz the BG Saga an' the Infinty Engine were a couple o' cash cows that no Dev House in theys collective right mind would toss away like a used tissue...PS:T was, is, an' prolly always will be the quintessential cRPG, an' I highly doubts if'n any other RPG House out there now or in the near future will 'ave the brass ta follow in its enourmous footsteps an' break the mold one more time...more's the pity... <_<

 

 

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