NHL is back

[mkreku]

At least Washington (or the Rangers) aren't controlled by a group of retired people that probably aren't aware that their retirement money is growing in a hockey club..

[Dark Moth]

I'm just hoping that new recruit will help dig the Penguins out of their ditch. Mario just isn't what he used to be, and I think he's not doing our team much good currently.

[Volourn]

"Why would a team sign a guy to a long term contract, when that guy had one of the most [in]famous hold outs in hocky????"

 

Good for him. If it's ok for teams to treat players like trash by trading them on a whim or canning their butts whenever they feel like it; players should have the right not to work for a team that isn't satisfying their needs.

[Judas]

Good for him.  If it's ok for teams to treat players like trash by trading them on a whim or canning their butts whenever they feel like it; players should have the right not to work for a team that isn't satisfying their needs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How is trading a player treating them like crap? That's part of the business, and evey hockey player knows and accepts that. Holding out when your rights are owned is childish and unprofessional.

 

Anyways, now with the new free agency rules players can pretty much choose where they want to play at the prime of their careers, so I don't think you'll be seeing very many holdouts anymore.

[alanschu]

"Why would a team sign a guy to a long term contract, when that guy had one of the most [in]famous hold outs in hocky????"

 

Good for him.  If it's ok for teams to treat players like trash by trading them on a whim or canning their butts whenever they feel like it; players should have the right not to work for a team that isn't satisfying their needs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Players understand that trades are part of the league. And you can't fire someone in the NHL. The contracts are guaranteed so if they let that player go, they still had to pay that player unless a different team picked up the contract.

 

It still doesn't change the fact that it's a bonehead idea to sign someone to a long term contract that has a history of holding out and not honouring the contract.

[Volourn]

"How is trading a player treating them like crap?"

 

Cool. Maybe Obsidian can trade JE Sawyer to Bioware for Dave Gaider. Horray for your logic!

 

Players accept it because they pretty much have no choice if they want to play hockey. I say if you sign a player for 5 years you should be stuck with them for 5 years much like a player in an ideal world cna't just walk out.

 

 

"And you can't fire someone in the NHL."

 

Yes you can. Just ebcause you are forced to pay them doesn't mean you can't fire them. And, while you are paying them they can't go elsewhere either.

 

 

"long term contract that has a history of holding out and not honouring the contract."

 

From my recollection, he did it ocne, and owners are more likely not to honour a contract than players. Afterall, they pretty much break the spirit of the contratc every time they trade someone.

 

When a player signs with a team they sign with a team not with some other team.

 

Trade may be cool and interesting; but they aren't fair.

[Kor Qel Droma]

And the fallout continues, now Detroit has placed Derian Hatcher, Darren McCarty and Ray Whitney on waivers. Why buy someone out when you can give them away for free? Personally I hope no one takes Hatcher and he has to play in the minors for all the times he laid out my Oilers in the playoffs with Dallas...

[mkreku]

Or maybe Toronto could pick up Hatcher.. hmm..

[Judas]

"How is trading a player treating them like crap?"

 

Cool. Maybe Obsidian can trade JE Sawyer to Bioware for Dave Gaider. Horray for your logic!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That doesn't even make sense. Does the video game industry trade employees? Of course not - hockey (and most professional sports) do allow the trading of players. Professional athletes realize this. Holy apples and oranges.

 

BUT HOCKEY IS THE EXACT SAME AS VIDEO GAME DEVELOPING R00FLES!1

 

LOL nice analogy buddy. And you're talking about logic?

 

Just ebcause you are forced to pay them doesn't mean you can't fire them. And, while you are paying them they can't go elsewhere either.

...sigh

 

A team could continue to pay a player and not utilize him. OR the player could negotiate a buyout and then be free to sign wherever he wants. OR the player could demand a trade.

 

Explain to me how a team can "fire" a player.

 

From my recollection, he did it ocne, and owners are more likely not to honour a contract than players. Afterall, they pretty much break the spirit of the contratc every time they trade someone...When a player signs with a team they sign with a team not with some other team.

What an idiotic statement. Do you even understand how professional sports work? You obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

 

FYI: The contract for players is LENGTH and MONEY, not who they play for specifically. Signing a 3-year, 3 million dollar deal means you are guaranteed to get paid that amount of money for that specific term. It does not guarantee you will be playing in the same location...unless you have a NO-TRADE CLAUSE...hence the reason no-trade clauses exist. Therefore trading the player is not breaking the contract in "spirit" or in any other sense.

 

Next!

[alanschu]

Yashin held out twice.

 

 

If Game Developers signed contracts that allowed for the trading of designers, then the designers would accept it.

 

 

You don't "fire" a player, you place him on waivers. Unless by your wacky demonstrationg getting fired means you still get paid.

 

 

Only with the current collective bargaining agreement can teams now "fire" a player, which involves buying them out of their contract which arguably is much better for the player, as they now aren't restricted by the contract they originally had.

[Volourn]

"Therefore trading the player is not breaking the contract in "spirit" or in any other sense."

 

Wrong. When a team is 'courting' a player they are interested in they usually try to emphasize how great the team is, the management is, the coaches are, the city is so yeah when a player signs with a club where they are signing DOES matter to them.

 

And, yes, trades are a part of sports. Always have been - doens't mean they should be. Sure, it's interesting for us fans; but that doesn't make it fair for the players. Trades are the reason why players SHOULDN'T have loyalty to teams or fans as fans and teams have NO loyalty to players and trades as well as support of trades proves this.

 

Game over.

 

Next.

 

 

"Yashin held out twice."

 

Ok. My mistake.

[Judas]

"Therefore trading the player is not breaking the contract in "spirit" or in any other sense."

 

Wrong. When a team is 'courting' a player they are interested in they usually try to emphasize how great the team is, the management is, the coaches are, the city is so yeah when a player signs with a club where they are signing DOES matter to them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Does the team tell the player, "We promise we will never EVAR trade you! Cross my heart!"? Does the player sign the contract with the notion that he will never EVAR be traded?

 

Of course not, unless they have a no-trade clause. Ask any hockey player.

 

The player signs over the rights to his services for a sum of money over a specific duration. If a player doesn't want to be traded he asks for a no-trade clause, otherwise, it's fair game, and to be expected that they may be traded. PERIOD. THE END.

[GhostofAnakin]

but that doesn't make it fair for the players. Trades are the reason why players SHOULDN'T have loyalty to teams or fans as fans and teams have NO loyalty to players and trades as well as support of trades proves this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No trade clause? Oh but that would mean the player would have to take a slightly lower salary to give them the freedom to say where they can play. How unfair.

 

Not to mention that most jobs, if the company tells you you're moving somewhere, you either do it, or you can find yourself another job. I'm not sure why professional sports should be different. They already get paid ridiculous amounts as it is.

[alanschu]

Wrong. When a team is 'courting' a player they are interested in they usually try to emphasize how great the team is, the management is, the coaches are, the city is so yeah when a player signs with a club where they are signing DOES matter to them.

 

Many jobs involve relocations, NOT just professoinal sports.

 

And I am sure that when a player signs with a team, it's all about the team loyalty, not the huge money involved in the contract. The reason why so many trades occur, is because they team that that player is playing for is not sure they're going to be able to afford that player when they become a free agent at the end of the season. If there was any indication of player loyalty, they wouldn't have this concern.

 

The Oiler paid Doug Weight more than any other player in franchise history, but it still didn't stop him from signing with St. Louis at the end of the year. Weight was loved and adored by fans and the city. There was many fan gatherings asking Weight to remain with the team, and the Oilers didn't try trading him away at the deadline, as is common with free agents. When it became clear that the Oilers could not make a deal with Weight, we were forced to trade him to St. Louis, otherwise risk losing him and getting nothing at all in return.

 

And then you have people like Curtis Joseph that cries whenever he leaves a team. Didn't stop him from disappearing to Toronto or jumping ship to Detroit. In both cases the water works came out. Poor guy, like he was somehow forced to go to those different teams

 

There's no loyalty in professional sports, on either side. You'll have the rare exception, but for the most part everyone is just interested in getting the most that they can for themselves.

[Kor Qel Droma]

Or maybe Toronto could pick up Hatcher.. hmm..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

To my dismay, TSN reported that my favorite player Sergei Gonchar was interested in playing for Toronto.

[Volourn]

"Many jobs involve relocations, NOT just professoinal sports."

 

Job relocation is completely different than trades in sports.

 

Like I said, trading in sports is akin to two game companies making trades of their employees.

 

And, yes, players are aware of this; but it's not like they have much of a choice in the matter. Being a victim of a trade is a negative a player has no choice to accept unless they are of the elite who can demand no trade clauses in their contract. of course, whenever a player exerices a no trade clause people bash them for it.

 

Go figure.

[alanschu]

Job relocation is completely different than trades in sports.

 

Like I said, trading in sports is akin to two game companies making trades of their employees.

 

But you said it was crap treatment because they have to leave their city and all that stuff. Relocation is EXACTLY the same. I go to work in LA for a company because I like LA. But they relocate to Bumsville, so if I want to keep my job, I deal with it.

 

If the player doesn't like being traded, he should quit pro-hockey, just like I quit my job in Bumsville.

 

And, yes, players are aware of this; but it's not like they have much of a choice in the matter. Being a victim of a trade is a negative a player has no choice to accept unless they are of the elite who can demand no trade clauses in their contract. of course, whenever a player exerices a no trade clause people bash them for it.

 

No they don't. Why would someone bash someone for getting a no trade clause?

 

Maybe you have retarded fans, but I know of no one that has ever bashed any player for wanting a no trade clause.

 

Furthermore, you make it sound like trades are only evil to players. Many players ask for trades. And in many cases trades turn out for the better for the player. Anson Carter used to talk about how in Boston the coach would joke about how if they didn't play well they'd be traded to Edmonton. When he actually was traded to Edmonton, he loved the hockey atmosphere and enjoyed his stay here.

 

Just like being relocated in a job, players are not forced to go through with the trade. If the situation is not one they want to be in, then they can quit. Obviously something is keeping them around, I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's the money.

[Volourn]

I think it's because they love the game. Yes, they like the money; but very few if any players start playing hockey for money. They all start because they love the game.

 

Not one thing you said changes the fact that trades suck for players. Period. And, just because relocation is similar but different doens't change the fact that tradings cuks. Sure, relocation sucks too; but then again, you are still working for the same company.

 

It's not like you start work for McDonalds and the next year they trade you to Kentucky Fried Chicken.

 

Then again, mayhaps because Sawyer signed with Obsidian in California; they should trade him to Bioware for Gaider.

 

Uhuh.

[alanschu]

I think it's because they love the game. Yes, they like the money; but very few if any players start playing hockey for money. They all start because they love the game.

 

If it was purely a love of the game thing, there's plenty of alternative places to play hockey than just the NHL. If it's also just for the love of the game, I doubt they'd hold out to begin with.

 

Michael Jordan never held out in basketball, even when he wasn't the highest paid player on his team (like 94/95 and 95/96).

 

 

Not one thing you said changes the fact that trades suck for players. Period. And, just because relocation is similar but different doens't change the fact that tradings cuks. Sure, relocation sucks too; but then again, you are still working for the same company.

 

Trades don't have to suck. If trades absolutely sucked for players, then why would players demand to be traded? Often time a trade occurs because a player is not fitting into the system of a particular team. If that player's not fitting into the system, I highly doubt he's having a blast playing for that team.

 

It's not like you start work for McDonalds and the next year they trade you to Kentucky Fried Chicken.

 

Just like Hockey Players aren't traded to the NFL. You're still playing in the NHL when you get traded.

 

 

And it still doesn't change the fact that if the player feels the trade is unfair, he doesn't have to play in the NHL anymore.

[mkreku]

Nothing new under the sun, but Volourn is wrong again. It's actually the OPPOSITE of what he claims. When a player takes a salary drop to get a no-trade clause (which ANY player can get, not only star players), he is usually seen as a hero for the team and the fans. It shows loyalty and dedication above greed. Mats Sundin has (had? not sure what he has now) one of those clauses and believe me, there was not a single bad word about it on the Leafs official forum! Only praise.

[Volourn]

"there was not a single bad word"

 

Proof. Your exaggeration at bets is proof that you ty[e nonsense. No matter the issue there are always two sides. Afterall, someone writes 'Hitler is evil' and there's bound to be someone to defend him.

 

No, I guess you haven't bene paying attention to baseball. There was a guy who just invoked a no trade clause and is has been slammed by fans and now is being punished by his teams by threats of limiting his playing time.

 

The guy in question is Nevin of SD who nexed a deal with Baltimore through a limited no trade clause.

 

So, uhuh, your theory is blown up again.

 

Go figure.

 

 

"If it was purely a love of the game thing, there's plenty of alternative places to play hockey than just the NHL. If it's also just for the love of the game, I doubt they'd hold out to begin with."

 

Oh please. You know full why players play in the NHL and not elsehwere. It's the friggin' NHL. You don't play in the NHL you are likely not gonna be considered much in hockey espicially in North Amerika. For prfoessional hockey players, the NHL is the Apex of long years of hard work at honing their skills so nice try. It's not *just* about the money just like it isn't in any job.

 

 

"Often time a trade occurs because a player is not fitting into the system of a particular team."

 

As far as I'm concerned if a team and player relationshiip isn't working out boths dies should come to a fair agreement of some sort of release - just like any job between employer and employee. The only reason trades are so prevelant and acceptable in sports is 'cause it's pretty much always existed, hightens the fan excitement, and teams don't want to release a player for 'nothing' in case it come sback to bite them except in the most hopeless cases.

 

 

"Just like Hockey Players aren't traded to the NFL. You're still playing in the NHL when you get traded."

 

But, you sign a contract to play for the Calgary Flames not the Edmonton Oilers.

 

 

"And it still doesn't change the fact that if the player feels the trade is unfair, he doesn't have to play in the NHL anymore."

 

Aye. And, i propose if JE Sawyer or Dave Gaider think a trad eis unfair they can just not work in the game industry anymore.

 

 

R00fles!

[Judas]

"Just like Hockey Players aren't traded to the NFL. You're still playing in the NHL when you get traded."

 

But, you sign a contract to play for the Calgary Flames not the Edmonton Oilers.

NO YOU DON'T, VOLOURN. Again, you sign a contract for MONEY and LENGTH, not LOCATION. This is why contracts are transferable, and this is why contracts are not broken when a player is traded, and this is why your argument is totally void.

 

I hope you're just trolling, because the fact that you don't understand this very, very basic point is a tad unsettling.

 

"And it still doesn't change the fact that if the player feels the trade is unfair, he doesn't have to play in the NHL anymore."

 

Aye. And, i propose if JE Sawyer or Dave Gaider think a trad eis unfair they can just not work in the game industry anymore.

 

R00fles!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right, because trades are allowed in the gaming industry. The gaming industry and professional sports are totally analogous!

 

Stick to arguing about games Volly; at least then you know what the hell you're talking about. Sports are obviously not your forte.

[Volourn]

Why are you trolling an otherwise civil discussion?

 

You have been reported.

[Judas]

^ LOL...

[jodo kast 5]

What's the commotion here?