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Irrelevant.  The Sith Lords is Obsidian's AND LucasArts' game.  If one drops the ball, both are to blame.

Except you are blaiming Obsidian specifically, and not LucasArts.

 

LucasArts specifically is responsible for the patch, but Obsidian is the company who is being dishonest?

 

How is that remotely fair?

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I didn't insult anyone, or call any names.

 

I believe I asked a valid question in hopes of putting an end to the uncalled for insults cast Obsidian's way.

 

Yet I get a warning for standing up for the company?

 

Can you please explain what was so wrong about my post?

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The issue with patching this game is that it was released in a 'rough' state. To be honest I am suprised the code as released was ever declared as going gold.

 

The task of patching a game such as KoTOR2 is mammoth. I don't want to call it unfinished but its certainly been heavily cut and lacks polish (to put it mildly).

 

My point being that the first patch was just the tip of the iceberg. To get this game to where it should have been on release you'd need more manhours of work than Obsidian can give.

 

So I doubt we'll see another bug fixer because it'd be like throwing a ml of water on a forest fire.

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*looks at kirottu's sig*

 

Truth.

I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden.

 

It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai.

So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds

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With the stalled patch and all, it can be easy to lose sight of the good stuff in the game - but honestly, there is plenty of it. Just noticed that RPGDot has this as #37 on the all time list of RPGs (http://www.rpgdot.com/index.php?hsaction=10070).

 

I've been looking for the patch too ... but crazy.joe's efforts are a good thing ... I've got as big a mouth as the next guy, maybe bigger; but crazy.joe needs to be able to focus whatever efforts he can put into this, on getting whatever results he can, not worrying about passengers on the bus.

 

So thanks. And yes, I'll sit back down now :)

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With the stalled patch and all, it can be easy to lose sight of the good stuff in the game - but honestly, there is plenty of it. 

Of course. If the game wasn't good, nobody would care in the least about a patch with better movies and music. I told myself that I would wait until this new patch came out before I played the game again, and I'm sticking to that.

"An electric puddle is not what I need right now." (Nina Kalenkov)

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The patch is supposed to be a higher quality movie and music patch right?

 

Frankly, I'm not all excited about it. I listened to the lower and higher quality music and I couldn't really tell the difference. :">

I tried showering and cleaning out my ears but I still couldn't tell the difference. That's probably just me though.

 

As for the higher quality movies, meh, they seemed good enough except for those made using the ingame engine but I can live with that. It probably would have been better had they just used the ingame engine with scripted sequences. At least it wouldn't have been so blurry then.

 

For me it's the story itself that needs some patching which is why the Restoration Project is high on my list of things to look forward to. Go Restoration Team! :thumbsup:

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Not targeted at you, but to anyone who posts in this thread. Could easily start a flame war.

 

I am not here to start a flame war just make sure those responsible for the game are acting in a responsible manner. Obsidian and their representatives should not have said that this patch was to be released soon when it is obvious that wasn't the case. Obsidian said it would be released in a few days and now it has been a few months. Yes, LA is to blame for sitting on the patch but Obsidian is to blame for putting out wrong information.

Harvey

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They should just release three separate packs. One is the normal game patch with the bugs/quest fixes. The other two are movies and music - these two aren't really patches because they work independently of the game (I think).

Everyone - sort of - will be happy.

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Pure Pazaak - The Stand-alone Multiplayer Pazaak Game (link to Obsidian board thread)

Pure Pazaak website (big thank you to fingolfin)

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They should just release three separate packs. One is the normal game patch with the bugs/quest fixes. The other two are movies and music - these two aren't really patches because they work independently of the game (I think).

Everyone - sort of - will be happy.

Who is paying for Obsidian's time to make those three patches?

 

Last time I checked, Obsidian is now working on Atari's dime.

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They should just release three separate packs. One is the normal game patch with the bugs/quest fixes. The other two are movies and music - these two aren't really patches because they work independently of the game (I think).

Everyone - sort of - will be happy.

 

That IS the current situation.

 

1.0B was SUPPOSED to have these Upgraded Music/Movie things, but due to size, it would be delivered in a seperate pack "2 DAYS LATER"...

 

But an other patch (Bug-Fixing) after this one would be nice, as the amount of bugs in KOTOR2 is Shocking...

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...it can be a goose.

I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden.

 

It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai.

So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds

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...it can be a goose.

 

...but only if you don't know the difference between a duck and a goose.

 

Seriously, the game has a lot going for it, even with the current ending. And it has been well received because it's heads and sholders above many, many other rpgs. Nevertheless, it is also true that the game is unfinished in the sense that it's incomplete. The episodes (i) with Mira at the end, and (ii) with the remote and G0T0 at the end; simply aren't complete (i.e., they're unfinished).

 

On balance, there's a lot of great work in the game; and IMO its fun to play and has good replay value. Still, objectively, the unfinished parts play a role in the overall evaluation and ultimately prevent a "best of the best" rating, despite the "best of the best" potential of the game.

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Obsidian as a developer would never choose to close down such a major expression of "community" within it's customers. LucasArts' forums are presented for use, secure in the knowledge that no one is listening and no one cares. And that no one who wants an answer to their question would ever go there. What forum doesn't have a search function? One that doesn't want to be used, surely. So where did the idea to close these forums come from? From Obsidian who would surely be damaged by the decision? Or from LucasArts that would not be, but was uncomfortable with the opinions being expressed here and their echoes elsewhere?

 

Obsidian have said it is up to LucasArts and that it is out of their hands, as loudly as the relationship between developer and publisher permits; i.e. in a whisper.

 

Obsidian have asked LucasArts for permission and funding to add the cut material back into the game. LucasArts said no. So much for Obsidian being "happy" with the game as it was released, so much for the cuts being "beneficial" to the storyline.

 

Obsidian completed their work on the first patch (1.0B) roughly two months before it was released. This they confirmed early in the QA process. There was an unexplained and lengthy QA process between LucasArts and Obsidian during this time, which, most likely, was due to a change of scope of the patch to include further issues. The ultimate declaration of the patches' scope, completion and its release is under the control of LucasArts.

 

Obsidian made clear that the music and movie content for the patch was completed during the development of the first patch, but was not released because of download size issues. This decision was taken by LucasArts. John Morgan speculated that it could be released in "a couple of days" because all that was required was minimal QA and the packaging of the movies for distribution, and it was not unreasonable that all of this could be achieved within that timescale. Perhaps with the history of the first patches' troubled release he should have been more circumspect. Perhaps, too, LucasArts should not put him in the position where he should be.

 

Obsidian have further made it clear that the music and movies have been delivered to LucasArts and is now subject to all that that "bureaucracy" entails.

 

This is not something that they can say plainer without risking the future of their own company. This is the power that publishers have.

"We were hoping we could bring the Xbox platform into December but didn't want to make the formal announcement until we knew an earlier ship date would not compromise the quality of The Sith Lords," says Producer Mike Gallo.
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w666tvr,

 

All that you said may be true (and I believe it is), but it still doesn't change the fact that this game was made by both Obsidian and LucasArts, and so the responsibility of the game is down to both of them. Who's decision was it to LEAVE IN the Mira and GOTO parts at the end? Or leave the unreachable markers on the map in the Academy? No one's? Then who missed them and forgot to remove useless encounters and map markers?

 

The music/movie patch may, in fact, be done and ready to go and at LucasArts, and they simply don't care, but it doesn't change that an Obsidian rep said it would be out in a few days, like others have said, a few months ago, and it's still not here. So the only reason we know one exists is because Obsidian said so. But it's not here, through their own fault or not, and they've said precious little since then.

 

The one thing this has taught me is that the partnership between LucasArts and Obsidian is one to avoid in the future. I can't say that the guys at Obsidian are great or not, and I can't say anything about the guys at LA, either. But the support level, post-release, of the only Obsidian game to be released is, basically, zero (I had more bugs AFTER the patch than before it).

 

I sincerely hope that the partnership between Obsidian and Atari is a whole lot better, since NWN (and it's expansions) has proven that Atari is a publisher that allows it's developer quite a bit of freedom to fix the problems in the game.

 

But KOTOR 2 is basically a dead, unfinished game, IMO. Could have been great, and showed signs of it, but overall I couldn't even call it "good", due to so many problems (both bug-wise and story-wise).

 

(and yes, I'm a big negative about K2, overall, but if someone would just give me my $50 back, I'd shut up about it)

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All that you said may be true (and I believe it is), but it still doesn't change the fact that this game was made by both Obsidian and LucasArts, and so the responsibility of the game is down to both of them.  Who's decision was it to LEAVE IN the Mira and GOTO parts at the end?  Or leave the unreachable markers on the map in the Academy?  No one's?  Then who missed them and forgot to remove useless encounters and map markers?

Obsidian have no power in this relationship, at all. Only Bioware were big enough to delay the first game for over a year. And look how that played out with the same much-delayed patches (anyone who is still wearing rose-tinted spectacles should search the Bioware forums). The common factor? LucasArts, of course.

 

Read my sig - LucasArts shaved at least two months off the development time and gave very little notice; it's not that Obsidian decided to leave stuff in, as it is not having the time to take it out. Or, if you prefer the conspiracy theory approach, that Obsidian left it in so the consumers would find out what the game could have been had they been allowed to complete it.

 

The music/movie patch may, in fact, be done and ready to go and at LucasArts, and they simply don't care, but it doesn't change that an Obsidian rep said it would be out in a few days, like others have said, a few months ago, and it's still not here.  So the only reason we know one exists is because Obsidian said so.  But it's not here, through their own fault or not, and they've said precious little since then.

And how does his honestly expressed opinion make LucasArts put the patch on their auto-update website? And why would it not exist? Both LucasArts and Obsidian have confirmed it's existence. The music would have already existed in this HQ format, and the movies would simply need to be re-rendered at a higher resolution.

 

The one thing this has taught me is that the partnership between LucasArts and Obsidian is one to avoid in the future.

History shows that almost any partnership that has LucasArts in one corner is one to be careful of. Even the partnership with Bioware (many of the ATI woes with KotOR II are nothing new).

 

Good games seem to happen despite LucasArts.

 

I can't say that the guys at Obsidian are great or not, and I can't say anything about the guys at LA, either.  But the support level, post-release, of the only Obsidian game to be released is, basically, zero (I had more bugs AFTER the patch than before it).

LucasArts say what gets fixed, when, and how much they are going to pay to for Obsidian to do the work.

 

As a developer, Obsidian are only as good as their last game. As a producer, LucasArts have moved on: Kotor II was followed by Republic Commando, and Lego Star Wars, and RotS.

 

Developers want to patch quickly, early and often to preserve the reputation of their latest game and hence their own; small patches being easier to produce, QA and distribute. Producers want to patch infrequently, because patches acknowledge that their products are less than perfect; whatever the reality is it is the perception of reality that matters.

 

But KOTOR 2 is basically a dead, unfinished game, IMO.  Could have been great, and showed signs of it, but overall I couldn't even call it "good", due to so many problems (both bug-wise and story-wise).

Others would disagree. I am one of those others. But I acknowledge that we are never going to reconcile this. I am fighting Obsidian's corner simply because they cannot.

 

The pattern of KotOR I suggests that there will be a second bug-fix patch, however much it is delayed. For everyone else - and the cut content - there is the TSL Restoration Project.

 

(and yes, I'm a big negative about K2, overall, but if someone would just give me my $50 back, I'd shut up about it)

And I'm not Obsidian fan-boy either, however it may come across in this post. I am particularly disappointed with the naivety they have shown in their dealings with LucasArts, and can only hope that they have learnt much and quickly, otherwise your NWN fears may be well founded.

 

I just think that it is unfair that they are unable to respond to critism here as they perhaps would like to, given a free hand to express themselves.

 

They are a much softer target than LucasArts and it is dishonest to focus the attention here. If there is to be a KotOR III, should we help LA to place the blame for KotOR II's problems elsewhere, without acknowledging that their greed is a major part of the problem?

"We were hoping we could bring the Xbox platform into December but didn't want to make the formal announcement until we knew an earlier ship date would not compromise the quality of The Sith Lords," says Producer Mike Gallo.
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