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dueling vs 2 weapon fighting?

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i've played kotor 1 and 2 a couple of times and i NEVER chose dueling instead of 2 weapon fighting,i mean does it have ANY advantages at all? plus you can always increase your stats more by carrying 2 lightsabres (more crystals ). Am i wrong? anyone?

:shifty:

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Master Dueling gives you a +3 to damage, and a +3 to hit.

 

You can consolidate your best crystals in a single double-bladed lightsaber.

 

Master Flurry and Two-Weapon rocks. Gamefaqs.com hsa the math broken down of all the feats, and quite simply, Master Flurry plus Two-Weapon Fighting does the most damage at every level.

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The Dueling feats are quite useful in the early stages of the game, and for the sparring with Handmaiden, the training with the Handmaiden sisters and the Battle Circle (along with the Force Barrier power).

 

As the game progresses, two weapon fighting becomes more and more powerful. Two sabers with decent crystals and keen upgrades are simply unbeatable.

 

As long as you have enough feats, you can then invest in Master Flurry and Master Two Weapon Fighting (plus, of course, the Master Knight Speed power).

 

It is only if you play the Consular/Jedi Master/Sith Lord path (with fewer feats) that you may have to choose one way over the other from the beginning.


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Yeah, if you're a fighter it almost doesn't matter what you pick(though I prefer single saber so I can use those feats elsewhere). As a consolar[sic] I always went for single saber with weapon finess since if you put anything in dex a single stat now helps you attack and defend.


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if you're gonna use the two weapon feat, it's better to have a double saber than hold two sabers.

 

I've always upgraded my character to both dual and two weapon just for the sake of versatility.

 

But i prefer using just one saber and the dualing feat, it's not quite as good, but it's more classic. It's the way of the jedi.

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I agree. The base damage on a dual saber is better than a normal saber, and the short saber for your off hand does even less damage.

 

Furthermore, with a secondary saber it wouldn't have your name crystal. A dual-saber with your two best crystals is better than the two saber approach.

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From the movies I got the impression that most people use only one lightsaber because it is safer. Most people aren't ambidextrous, so they don't use two sabers, and it takes great skill to wield a double-bladed staff so they don't use double-bladed sabers. I seem to remember someone in the movies referring to Darth Maul's saber and saying it is very aggressive and powerful but most people would probably cut themselves in half with it. Revan and the Exile are supposed to be very powerful ex-Jedi so it makes sense that they would have trained to use the more dangerous weapons. As for the other party members, it's an RPG and you can decide which weapons to give them according to how you think they should be.

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Yeah, from remarks in SW movies/games it seems like the double-bladed saber is more "aggressive" and has more killing power, which causes it to be more associated with Sith (though not exclusively). The single-bladed saber is more defensive and precise (hence the defense and attack bonuses), but they should give dueling more of an advantage to reflect this. (they should give you a couple abilities, like at least letting you absorb force lightning - and maybe other aggressive force powers).

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Frankly I enjoyed using a single saber more than two, though yes two do move 'whaling' damage per ton. Ideally I'd use one for general use and then use two if I really meant it (like boss fighting or hacking your way into the palace near the end of KOTOR II).

 

If they do a third game, I'd like to see them do something about the 'two sabers = best way' thing. Say only allow you use some force powers if you have a hand free like...

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You saw Maul vs. Obi-Wan.

 

Obi was was kick Maul's arse because the double could not stand against a single opponent with a single saber. When Obi-Wan cut it in half Maul won the duel. He was then able to move fast enough.

 

Single is much more aggresive because it is simpler, and even though simple it is far more elegant and powerful than the others.

 

Anakin thought 2 sabers would help him against Dooku, he was wrong, Dooku parried his attacks like nothing and destroyed one of them even. All of the best, Jedi, Sith, every one of the best use the single.

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The single dueling feat gives single-handed (unarmed) combat as well, which is necessary for the fights with the Handmaidens and Mandalorians.

 

It also gives a defence bonus.


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The single dueling feat gives single-handed (unarmed) combat as well, which is necessary for the fights with the Handmaidens and Mandalorians.

 

It also gives a defence bonus.

yeah,but oyou have more room for crystals if you are carrying 2 lightsabers.you can put more crystals in 2 single lightsabers than in 1 doublebladed therefore increase more of your stats , correct?

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If you want truly huge amounts of damage, two sabers is the way to go, not double-bladed. Why? Because the crit range is higher on single-bladed sabers, and to get the highest amounts of damage, you need to take advantage of the crits on either Power Attack or Critical Strike. On the other hand, if you simply want to get through the game as effortlessly as possible, double-bladed may be better because you can just Flurry for every single attack to win easily. For the best possible setup, however, two lightsabers is better.

 

 

Also note that there are advantages to single saber. You get the higher crit range as before, so you can still take advantage of the high-damage feats. The key is that when using a single weapon, you add 1.5 times your str modifier to your damage instead of the modifier itself. This can easily get up to an extra 8 damage or so (or maybe more, I haven't actually tried to max strength). This extra damage applies to every attack, and when included in the crits from either Critical Strike or Power Attack, can do quite a bit of damage. Of course, you also get the bonuses to attack and AC from Dueling, and all this is in exchange for only a single attack that is weaker than your main attack that you would get from a second weapon with the second best crystals. Is this worth the bonuses lost from having twice as many crystal slots? I don't know. However, single saber is definitely a viable alternative to two weapons in KotOR2 and nowhere near as weak as many people claim.

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Again, people have done the math on this, and Flurry in the end does more damage than Power Attack and Critical Strike, so the threat range on the single saber doesn't come into play as much as the increased damage of every single attack with a dual-saber.

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Lightsaber stances don't favor Flurry over Critical Strike or vice versa. They don't factor into the arguement.

 

Flurry vs. Power Attack

 

Master Flurry: (1 Lightsaber) Master Power Attack: (1 Lightsaber)

============================= ===================================

50 damage, hit one 62 damage, hit one

50 damage, flurry

============================= ===================================

100 total damage 62 total damage

 

Master Flurry: (2 or Double) Master Power Attack: (2 or Double)

============================= ===================================

50 damage, hit one 62 damage, hit one

50 damage, offhand 62 damage, offhand

50 damage, flurry

============================= ===================================

150 total damage 124 total damage

 

Master Flurry, 2 Weapons, Master Power Attack, 2 Weapons,

Master Speed Master Speed

============================= ===================================

50 damage, hit one 62 damage, hit one

50 damage, offhand 62 damage, offhand

50 damage, flurry 62 damage, speed one

50 damage, speed one 62 damage, speed two

50 damage, speed two

============================= ===================================

250 total damage 248 total damage

 

At every level, Flurry is superior. Now let's break down Critical Strike.

 

Flurry vs. Critical Strike

 

Master Flurry: 1 Lightsaber Master Critical Strike: 1 Lightsaber

============================= ======================================

50 damage, hit one 50 damage

50 damage, flurry (+50% at x3)

(+20% at x3)

============================= ======================================

110 average damage 75 average damage

 

Master Flurry: 2 Lightsabers Master Critical Strike: 2 Lightsabers

============================= ======================================

50 damage, hit one 50 damage

50 damage, offhand 150 damage (at 50%, we get one here)

50 damage, flurry

(+20% at x3)

============================= ======================================

190 average damage 200 average damage

 

Master Flurry, 2 Weapons, Master Critical Strike, 2 Weapons,

Master Speed Master Speed

============================= ======================================

50 damage, hit one 50 damage, hit one

50 damage, offhand 50 damage, offhand

50 damage, flurry 150 damage, speed one

50 damage, speed one 150 damage, speed two

150 damage, speed two

(flurry gets one critical) (at 50% we can assume 2 critical hits)

============================= ======================================

350 average damage 400 average damage

 

Critical Strike appears to be more powerful here. However there are two factors to consider. The first is that criticals are still random. Flurry is giving you guaranteed extra attacks, over the possibility of criticals. I'll take damage I know I can count on, over damage I may or may not get.

 

Secondly, Master Flurry has no penalties. Master Critical Strike still gives you a -5 to defense. If you don't happen to hit criticals, then you miss your bonus damage, futhermore, you are are far more likely to be hit and take damage yourself with Critical Strike. What's the highest defense you're going to get from armor as a Jedi? 4 or 5? Watch as that is totally blown away by that -5 to defense.

 

At the first level Flurry is more powerful than Critical Strike, at the second level they might as well be dead even, and Critical Strike is more powerful at the third level. So, fairly comparable overall, save for the -5 to defense.

 

I'll take the one with no penalty with everything else being fairly equal.

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That's the analysis from GameFAQ's, isn't it? It's somewhat off. I wouldn't take the error-prone work of a single person and claim that "people" have already calculated the best setup.

 

First of all, your claim that lightsaber stances favor neither Critical Strike nor Flurry is not correct. Shien Form's increased crit multiplier aids Critical Strike much more than Flurry. However, this is included in the analysis you found, so this fact does not invalidate it.

 

The big problem with the analysis for our argument is that it claims that the Flurry user will get one critical hit out of four attacks. This is true if the Flurry user is using single-bladed lightsabers. However, since you suggested using a double-bladed lightsaber, even if Keen this will only get a critical on a 19 or 20, one out of every 10 attacks.

 

Thus, a more accurate analysis of the same sort: Flurry does four attacks, each of which have a 10% chance of doing triple damage. The attacks thus have an average damage of 50*.9 + 150*.1 = 60 damage. Five attacks lead to 300 damage, which is less than the 350 damage suggested by the FAQ.

 

300 damage from Flurry, 400 damage from Critical Strike. I think it's pretty clear that Critical Strike does more damage.

 

 

[EDIT] Though the Crit vs. Flurry comparison is accurate for single-bladed lightsabers, the Power Attack vs. Flurry comparison is highly flawed because it does not include the increased multiplier from Power Attack. With a Keen saber and Juyo stance (+1 attacks/round), Power Attack crits for 3x on 20% of attacks. This means the average damage for an attack is 62*.8+186*.2 = 86.8, and over the five attacks this adds to 434 damage, which is higher still than Critical Strike and vastly superior to Flurry.

 

Note that all these analyses assume that one's attack bonus is so high that every attack is a hit, which is not unreasonable late in the game.

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