should you be able to do anything in a crpg?

[Zagor]

the question is: should you be permitted to do whatever you want in a crpg? Like killing children (fallout) , abuse your wife physically (fable), or other very sick stuff.

Or should we draw the line somewhere? And in that case, where? I don't think anyone would like a game were you could commit rape for example.

Or a game where you could join a nazi-faction, and then killing black people

 

I think myself, that you should be able to be really evil, kill and betray all you want. But killing children is one step to far for me. Even if you don't have to do it in fallout, you could easily to it by mistake anyway (which I did)

[GhostofAnakin]

Depends on the game. If it's a Star Wars game (or anything based off of "PG-13 or lower" material), then no.

 

But if it's a dark game, something like Fallout, or even Vampire, then there should be a lot more things you can do.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Short answer no.

[Zagor]

Yes , I agree that it must depend on what audience it's aimed at. But at the same time, we all know that the kids will play it even with an 18+ rating.

[Child of Flame]

Then the issue you're shooting at is 'should we censor games aimed at an adult audience for kids because their parents will not keep tabs on them, therefore the government, the game industry, the entertainment industry, and everyone else should'.

 

I don't like that issue, it's overdone, and it bugs the hell out of me.

[Zagor]

I just think the developers should use their common sense, to include the option to beat up your wife seems very unnecessary to me.

It doesn't make the game any better.

Especially when a lot of kids have bad parents (that they didn't choose) who lets them play it.

This is probably a sensitive subject for me, as I have RL friends who's been abused by their boyfriends. (and raped)

And I just can't understand why you should encourage that kind of behaviour in a game.

 

I don't think we should censor games, I just think developers should use their common sence (like most of them do)

[Child of Flame]

I just think the developers should use their common sense, to include the option to beat up your wife seems very unnecessary to me.

It doesn't make the game any better.

Especially when a lot of kids have bad parents (that they didn't choose) who lets them play it.

This is probably a sensitive subject for me, as I have RL friends who's been abused by their boyfriends. (and raped)

And I just can't understand why you should encourage that kind of behaviour in a game.

 

I don't think we should censor games, I just think developers should use their common sence (like most of them do)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

The bolded part is the part that makes me uncomfortable. Everything else was agreeable enough, though in some settings I could see 'evil' options being feasible. It is the sole responsibility of the parents to bring up their kids properly, not the game developers, not the internet, not the government (exceptin' in cases of extreme abuse or neglect on the part of the parents), not even the babysitter.

 

Seriously, parents need to know what their kids are doing.

[Zagor]

I agree that the parents has the biggest responsibility, but I also think developers should take their part of it too.

And if you have any kids of your own, you would know that if they want to play a specific game, you'll have a hard time stopping them. What if they play it at a friends house for example, without you knowing about it. You can't be everywhere, even if you'r a good parent.

 

I think everyone has a responsibility, there's where we disagree. Otherwise we could show porn in the middle of the day on tv, and then blame the parents if the kids see it.

[Laozi]

"Nothing Human is Alien to me."

 

I think that should be the general rule for crpgs

[GhostofAnakin]

The bolded part is the part that makes me uncomfortable.  Everything else was agreeable enough, though in some settings I could see 'evil' options being feasible.  It is the sole responsibility of the parents to bring up their kids properly, not the game developers, not the internet, not the government (exceptin' in cases of extreme abuse or neglect on the part of the parents), not even the babysitter. 

 

Seriously, parents need to know what their kids are doing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's a whole rant in and of itself. I can't begin to explain how annoyed I am with parents who either do a terrible job, or just outright avoid raising their kids, then immediately lay the blame on some other media, such as games, movies, or whatnot, when their kid does something wrong.

[Zagor]

Does anyone agree with me when I say that parents clearly has the biggest responsibility, but others (like game developers) should take their responsibility as well (and most of them do)?

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

The bolded part is the part that makes me uncomfortable.  Everything else was agreeable enough, though in some settings I could see 'evil' options being feasible.  It is the sole responsibility of the parents to bring up their kids properly, not the game developers, not the internet, not the government (exceptin' in cases of extreme abuse or neglect on the part of the parents), not even the babysitter. 

 

Seriously, parents need to know what their kids are doing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

My parents were/are great, really great, couldnt ask for better. But as I got older putting one over on them became a hobby. Parents cant be around all the time so while you can certainly say they have responsibility once your in your middle teens your often left to your own devices. Short of mounting a 24 hour guard this isnt going to change. So it was quite possible to do all sorts of things, which although they didnt involve games could have easily had the games actually been around.

 

Games and RPGs can have a cathartic effect, though I dont see any in extreme violence like dismembering children, thats a job for a psychiatrist to deal with not a game. But if beating up your virtual spouse lets you vent those feelings you may have vented on your real spouse, then I cant see that as anything but a good thing. An hour of doom after school certainly put me in a better mood and adding likenesses of teachers etc and a map , well totally harmless :D

 

However on the flipside they can also inspire. If you get away with something in a game it may inspire you to give it a go for real. For example if you beat up your virtual spouse and she becomes your submissive little "pet" that may inspire you to try it for real.

 

Since there is no real evidence I would tend to err on the side of caution and hold back. Not being able to do some of those extreme acts in a game would be a small price to pay if they inspired even one person to try them for real.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

That's a whole rant in and of itself.  I can't begin to explain how annoyed I am with parents who either do a terrible job, or just outright avoid raising their kids, then immediately lay the blame on some other media, such as games, movies, or whatnot, when their kid does something wrong.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm not sure, but I dont think we are talking about really young children here, but rather those teens who dont want to be scrutinised by their parents. Dont know if anything has changed in 10 years, but I did everything I could to avoid my parents gaze while I got upto no good.

[Zagor]

I think even younger kids do it, when my brother (12 years younger then me) was about 10, both he and all the kids in his class played the most violent games available. And we have very good parents. They just gathered at home of someone who had parents who didn't care.

 

Just to clearify something, I'm not against violent games in general, I love the fallouts, just not the childkilling part . I'm just against the most extreme and unnessesary cases of violence in games.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Just to clearify something, I'm not against violent games in general, I love the fallouts, just not the childkilling part . I'm just against the most extreme and unnessesary cases of violence in games.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Never really an issue here in the UK since they remove killable children in games anyway. We had child free fallouts, which was fine except that some of the quests that related to children were left in.

[Laozi]

Thats sad killing children is one of the things that made that game great

[Zagor]

It would be better if they just made the kids unkillable or something, not cut them out completely.

[metadigital]

Does anyone agree with me when I say that parents clearly has the biggest responsibility, but others (like game developers) should take their responsibility as well (and most of them do)?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, I don't. You're talking about de facto, cultural censorship.

 

I do not buy the whole evil-video-inspires-evil-children/people argument. I think it is the worst kind of bad science. That said, including it for sensationalist reasons is just as stupid. Even the youngest children can seperate fantasy from reality: you don't see any children trying to emulate Wile. E. Coyote by falling off cliffs (70 deaths / hour in Road Runner, iirc.)

 

Just read all the people who have trouble ROLE PLAYING an evil character (<{POST_SNAPBACK}>), and you will see that this is nonsense. As someone said in one of the previous threads, it's mostly young teens who play out-and-out-pantomime-evil characters -- and that is a form of rebellion against the endless rules that they have to obey without any input into making / agreeing them.

 

If I do some heinous criminal act in an RPG, I will feel the full (bad) feelings and effects of it, as well as feel empathy for the victim (if the story is written correctly).

 

Another thread mentioned that most games have institutionalised murder. Well, as was said there, too, that is not strictly true: the murder is only a kill-or-be-killed transaction.

 

I don't immediately see a plot point to torture or kill or rape a child. And most villains don't engage in p

[Laozi]

Make them "Eatable" in all games, instead of healthpacks or whatever

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I read the interview with the guy who created The Sims. He made it impossible to kill babies in the game; they are indestructable -- so you can actually use them as firebreaks, for example. See how the immersion has just been lost?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If your using babies as firebreaks then your not worried about immersion.

[metadigital]

I read the interview with the guy who created The Sims. He made it impossible to kill babies in the game; they are indestructable -- so you can actually use them as firebreaks, for example. See how the immersion has just been lost?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If your using babies as firebreaks then your not worried about immersion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That was my point.

 

not many people would use a baby as a firebreak. But if you can, then the game just becomes a poor Tetris. (Except you don't get the dreams ... the dreams of multi-coloured blocks revolving and spinning ryhtmically to clear the level before you are engulfed in the multi-coloured blocks ... blocks, everywhere ...)

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

That was my point.

 

not many people would use a baby as a firebreak. But if you can, then the game just becomes a poor Tetris.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not getting it.

 

Since if you cared about immersion you would not use a baby as a firebreak anyway. In effect the fact the baby is immortal has no effect there.

It's also very difficult to see any scenario of neglect which just isnt outright creepy being effected by it also.

 

I can fully see how for example making a child immortal in something like FO and then accidently hitting it with a plasma round would ruin the immersion, which is why I prefer the children to simply not be there.

[metadigital]

Not getting it.

 

Since if you cared about immersion you would not use a baby as a firebreak anyway. In effect the fact the baby is immortal has no effect there.

It's also very difficult to see any scenario of neglect which just isnt outright creepy being effected by it also.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You wouldn't use a baby, because it wouldn't normally be a very good firebreak. The fact you can makes the game stupid and unrealistic, not "safe and comforting", or whatever the designer was going for.

 

Think a little about people without perfect social skills. They might play a game as they act in RL, then they can see how other NPCs react to this behaviour. Then they can load a save and play differently, and see the difference.

 

If you are going to allow heinous behaviour, you necessarily need to have repurcussions.

[Zagor]

Of course kids in general don't jump off a cliff, that's not a very good example. But I think all of us, even adults, are more affected by what we see than most believe.

For example, the wifebeating in fable, I honestly think that it can give kids a strange way of looking at females. Not only because of the game , but the game can have some, although small effect on some of them.

And this is not some crazy thing like going out with a flamethrower on a killing spree, wifebeating is very common.

And it doesn't make the game better, so they could have skipped it completely.

[ncr]

Killing babies? Perhaps in some games, but perhaps not in others. I guess it's not really my thing. This reminds me of Fable in a way. You can burp in Fable; you can fart in Fable. Why? Does it add to the lackluster story or enhance the gaming experience? In the Sims, you can simulate the experience of using the toilet. The question then becomes: Why would I want to?