How does Kreia know that...

[The Yeti of 66]

I've been thinking, how did she know about the True Sith? I doubt Revan would tell her, but that seems like the only way she could know.

 

She would have asked where they were though wouldn't she?

 

Sorry if this was in the game but it's been a long time since I've played.

[Darth Sirius]

I've been thinking, how did she know about the True Sith? I doubt Revan would tell her, but that seems like the only way she could know.

 

She would have asked where they were though wouldn't she?

 

Sorry if this was in the game but it's been a long time since I've played.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How did she know most things she did in-game? Which you would probably agree was a hell of alot.

 

And NONE of it was explained.

 

In her words, she knows many things, how or why or indeed when she learned such truths is highly debatable.

[Darkside]

Somewhere in that ungodly long dialouge on Malachor she says something like "You think those machines waging war against the Republic are the Sith? That is not who we are." So unless I'm mistaken, Darth Traya was one of the True Sith.

[Darth Sirius]

Somewhere in that ungodly long dialouge on Malachor she says something like "You think those machines waging war against the Republic are the Sith?  That is not who we are."  So unless I'm mistaken, Darth Traya was one of the True Sith.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

She then says, when asked that she doesn't know where Revan has gone (to fight the true Sith) and if she was one, wouldn't she know? Unless I'm mistaken of course.

[The Yeti of 66]

She could be like Revan. A true Sith that somehow ended up in the outer rim.

[Epicenter]

I've been thinking, how did she know about the True Sith? I doubt Revan would tell her, but that seems like the only way she could know.

 

She would have asked where they were though wouldn't she?

 

Sorry if this was in the game but it's been a long time since I've played.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Kreia is part of the triad of the Kreia-Atris-Handmaiden (if you play lightside) which both fulfills the archetype of the "woman" in myths (Kreia as the wise Crone - Atris as the Jedi Master fulfilling the role of Mother- and Handmaiden as of course, the Maiden) which plants the seed for Handmaiden's future tragedy. Both Atris and Kreia trod the same path and the ending of KotoR2 suggests that Handmaiden might end up down that same path.

 

At some point, Kreia explains to you (or maybe someone else? Atris?) that she was essentially once Atris. She too was a Jedi Historian and she too delved too deeply into the Sith teachings to understand the history of the Force. From consulting Sith holocrons it didn't take long for her to probably visit places like Koriban, Malachor V, and other places not described to learn more about the Sith, probably eventually piecing together the history of the True Sith.

 

To Kreia, the I don't think the True Sith aren't the tribespeople on Koriban or the hybrid Sith culture that came with the Dark Jedi. She states firmly that the Sith are not a people, the Sith is a belief.

[Darth Sirius]

To Kreia, the I don't think the True Sith aren't the tribespeople on Koriban or the hybrid Sith culture that came with the Dark Jedi. She states firmly that the Sith are not a people, the Sith is a belief.

Then what has Revan gone to fight against in unknown space? A belief? A belief he embraced himself? To "save" the galaxy from that belief? Damn I'm getting confused now.

[Darth Flatus]

ITs been a loong while since i played but i think she found the info at the trayus acadamey, the same way revan did. When she mentions true sith she means people who are sith through and through and not just some rogue jedi.

[Epicenter]

ITs been a loong while since i played but i think she found the info at the trayus acadamey, the same way revan did. When she mentions true sith  she means people who are sith through and through and not just some rogue jedi.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Heh, I like that explanation of True Sith better than my own.

[metadigital]

The problem is the dialogue seems to have been written as an afterthought to the game design; it then seems to have been translated into Hebrew, read from left to right and transcribed back into English, put through a MS Word spell and grammar check and right-justified; therefore any cogent exegesis is defeated as it is mind-bogglingly vapid, and self-contradictory at the same time.

 

To fight an idea it requires that one uses a superior idea. (i.e. fight the Sith codex with some new, presumeably improved Jedi++ codex.)

 

E.g. the Hobbesian notion that the strongest survive by beating everyone else makes for a lonely and isolated non-community. A community of cooperative beings can act in concert and defeat a single Hobbesian being of many magnitudes of strength greater than their weakest member. Thus, the Jedi "nice" code is a viable strategy to fight the Sith "bellum omnium contra omnes" code. The Sith code, however, will naturally appeal to those strong and selfish enough to be interested in short-term power over long-term survival.

 

Also, to fight little green men (and women) from beyond the outer rim requires the NPC to travel beyond the grasp of the KotOR2 writers, which neatly allows for them to ignore said NPC.

[DeathScepter]

I do think there are Two Sith Empires.

 

 

Greater Sith Empire: Where True Sith lay, a living belief System needs people and people needs training grounds Aka Malachor 5 and Korriban.

 

 

Lesser Sith Empire: Darth Revan's Sith Armada during the Jedi Civil War and The Trio of Sith Lords of Kotor 2.

 

 

I do remember Malachor 5 was a beacon to that the Dark Side Calls too.

 

 

I do think that is why it was a Taboo Planet for the Mandalorian People.

 

Korriban is another beacon for that the Dark Side Calls too.

 

So a Sentient being must be a teacher, one for Malachor 5 and one for Korriban.

 

IT doesnt mean they have to be alive.

[The Yeti of 66]

ITs been a loong while since i played but i think she found the info at the trayus acadamey, the same way revan did. When she mentions true sith  she means people who are sith through and through and not just some rogue jedi.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes that makes sense. They both learned the location, but Revan knew where it was because he felt the call of home. Yes that works. Or maybe the when he felt that call he knew who it was, the Sith. He then told Kreia.

 

I personally think the Mandalorian Wars were to draw Revan out, a way for the Sith to see if Revan was really there. They must have felt him as he felt them. Maybe a bond formed between them in his younger years. How did Revan end out so far from the empire I wonder?

[billybob65]

Light Side Angle:I believe that after the Star Forge Revan was slowly (a month to a year) overtaken by his own emotions of the mass destruction he caused and his lost sense of self. So, he did the only thing that he could do to place together his former life. He told everyone they he need some space and time to deal with his problem. He take the Ebon Hawk with the droids and visited Malachor V and he find some of the answers that he was looking for. He then visited the planet that had the temple of the Star Forge and Korriban. HK-47 was shoot up at Korriban and the various parts were taken by the grave robbers so time after. He was also able to turn the Sith Twi'lek Yuthura to the light side. Revan did not find all the answers but he was able from the ancients texts to place together the truth about the "True Sith Empire". The True Sith ruled the universe but the Rakata race rebel against them and they were victorious against the True Sith. They almost completely eradicated the Sith but they were corrupted with power and they turned on each other. Revan also remembered that he sent out scouts from the Star Forge and they reported that they was an empire beyond f the Outer Rim He returned to his friends and told them to help Yuthura recover from the dark side and that they needed to protect the Republic. He told them that a new enemy could come shortly. Revan then left alone again with the Ebon Hawk and the droids. He found a planet and did some reacon and discovered that the True Sith had 5 regions. Each region was governed by a Sith Lord and there was a council like the Jedi where each Sith Lord had a vote and the council had one Head Sith Lord who voted in by the other lesser Lord. The Head Sith Lord made the council's decisions into reality. Like the US President enforces what the Senate and House declare as laws. After the initial intelligence which took a year to obtain he decided that he need faced this threat but he know that he need one of two people (Malak or Exile). These two know war and had face it head on unfortunately Malak was slain by Revan and the Exile was Exiled. So, he sent the utility droid and the Ebon Hawk to find the Exile and to bring him to Revan. Revan thought the Exile would eventually return to Malachor V and so he sent the ship and the droid to Malachor V. Kriea being suddenly by her students fall decided to know why they fall and so she travel to Malachor V with her two new apprentices and she turned into Darth Traya. Everything was going fine until the Ebon and the droid landed. Darth Traya was able to get the message that was for the Exile and she decided that this could be an opportunity to see Revan again. She told her two apprentices (Sion and the other one) and they freak out because they think that Darth Traya is going back to the Light side of the force. The scene where they beat and leave her to die.

[kalimeeri]

Here's a couple of quotes from Kotor 1's loading screens that might/might not have bearing on the 'Sith' question:

 

'Millennia ago, a rift in the Jedi order saw the followers of the darkside exiled from Republic Space.'

 

A millennium is defined as 1000 years, and the Republic is 15000 years old, according to K1.

 

'Outcast Jedi settled on the Sith homeworld and over millennia, the two peoples became one.'

 

Again with the millennia thing.

 

'1000 years ago the forgotten Sith returned to the Republic and the great Hyperspace War began.'

 

Great Sith War (4,000 BBY). The Great Hyperspace War happened a thousand years earlier, instigated when two Republic hyperspace explorers accidentally crash-landed on the Sith graveyard planet Korriban during the funeral procession of Marka Ragnos. Prior to the Hyperspace war, written history is sketchy or non-existent.

 

I don't really think the Sith are little green men, although they may be a mix of these very old Jedi (pre-Ragnos) and whatever they merged with; and for sure they didn't all come back to Republic space. Exactly where Revan fits into the equation I'm not sure, but it's certainly possible his ancestors are there, even if he was born on a fringe world or a spaceship somewhere. Kreia might know something about them due to her historical studies of Marka Ragnos, Ludo Kressh, etc., because that's probably where 'they' came from.

 

"The ancient Sith race developed their distinct culture and civilization. Only later, as these people spread across the galaxy did the term Sith become associated more with their teachings and philosophies than with the species itself. Though the Sith held great power, they were not united, preferring to remain in tribal "circles", bands of Sith led by one or more sorcerers who were responsible for the safety and protection of their charges."

 

The threat that Revan perceives may be the unification or the emergence of a strong leader, another Exar Kun or Ulic Qel-Dromo. Only this one has the full weight of the Sith empire behind him, not just a group of followers.

 

I personally think the Mandalorian Wars were to draw Revan out, a way for the Sith to see if Revan was really there. They must have felt him as he felt them. Maybe a bond formed between them in his younger years. How did Revan end out so far from the empire I wonder?

 

@Yeti: Interesting thought. Since Revan was so young, he may have been born outside of Sith space--or maybe his mother fled for some reason, taking him along when he was very young. He did end up in the Jedi order somehow.

[Arkendale]

I read somewhere that the True Sith were a race that died out, then the Dark Side believers took over that name or something like that.

 

Or maybe it was just someone spouting nonsense and it influenced my mind to think that way...

[The Great Phantom]

Kreia reminds me a lot of myself in public (which is rare; I'm usually in some dark basement playing D&D in the dark...). She rarely ever tells the truth, but she rarely ever outright lies either. She says the truth (or some of it) in ways that she wants others to think of it. I once convinced all of my friends that what was ice-water spilled on my backpack was (insert whatever fluid that may come to mind... ), just by describing ice in the right way...

 

:ph34r:

 

I'm staying out of this one. I've participated in far too many Sith vs. Belief to want to get involved in another.

[hawk]

My theory of what happened before Kotor II:

 

Sion and Nihilus never were Jedi. As far as I can tell, they were spawned by the horrors of the Mandalorian wars, spawned by the Exile.

Revan send the Ebon Hawk back to republic space, and by doing so T3-M4's backup program kicked in, which told him to delete the location of Revan (to ensure Revans safety should the location fall into the wrong hands) and following up on Bastila's / Carth's order to return to the republic or find other Jedi.

 

During this returning for other Jedi / the Republic, the (who knows "True") Sith on board the Ravager (Nihilus / Sion) found the Ebon Hawk flying away from a true Sith World (Maybe this is Malachor V). Before the Sith launched the attack the Ebon Hawk escaped by jumping to Hyperspace. The Ravager followed the Ebon Hawk and came to it's destination: the Republic Cruiser called the Harbinger and was recognized by the Sith as the Ebon Hawk's destination. Allthough the Jedi (Exile) on board the Harbinger could not be detected through the force (yet), The Sith had an interest in the Republic Vessel. Sion allowed himself to be captured by feigning death (which he probably learned from Kreia), during the capture the Sith Assasins where able to board the Harbinger, they found out that there was a Jedi on board the vessel which marked the beginning of Kotor II.

 

Kreia tells you that Nihilus / Sion and herself were not the true Sith. I however think this is not true. Off course, there are more Sith than just Nihilus and Sion but how else was the Ravager be able to find the Ebon Hawk. Finding the Ebon Hawk in space is looking for a 1 mm needle in a haystack of about 10000000000 km wide.

 

Then there is the thing where Kreia boarded the Ebon Hawk. Was it on the True Sith world were Revan send the ship back to the Republic? Why not.

Did T3-M4 first found Kreia before he found the Exile? Maybe, that's true if Revan left the Ebon Hawk on Malachor V.

 

I am off course looking forward to what the developers think are the true sith. If there will be a Kotor III, we should know.

[Plano Skywalker]

I look at it like this:

 

"True Sith" refers to those who grew up with Sith teachings and were never Jedi.

Exar Kun is not a True Sith because he was a Fallen Jedi.

 

True Sith can refer to anyone whose teachings came directly through Sith heritage.

For instance, Palpatine was True Sith while Dukoo was a Fallen Jedi.

 

There is, of course, the "racial Sith" who have largely died out. However, there are holes in that story that could be exploited to bring about an appearance of these "racial Sith" as well. But True Sith does not necessarily have to be racial Sith.

[Jedi Master D Murda]

My theory of what happened before Kotor II:

 

Sion and Nihilus never were Jedi. As far as I can tell, they were spawned by the horrors of the Mandalorian wars, spawned by the Exile.

Revan send the Ebon Hawk back to republic space, and by doing so T3-M4's backup program kicked in,  which told him to delete the location of Revan (to ensure Revans safety should the location fall into the wrong hands) and following up on Bastila's / Carth's order to return to the republic or find other Jedi.

 

During this returning for other Jedi / the Republic, the (who knows "True") Sith on board the Ravager (Nihilus / Sion) found the Ebon Hawk flying away from a true Sith World (Maybe this is Malachor V). Before the Sith launched the attack the Ebon Hawk escaped by jumping to Hyperspace. The Ravager followed the Ebon Hawk and came to it's destination: the Republic Cruiser called the Harbinger and was recognized by the Sith as the Ebon Hawk's destination. Allthough the Jedi (Exile) on board the Harbinger could not be detected through the force (yet), The Sith had an interest in the Republic Vessel. Sion allowed himself to be captured by feigning death (which he probably learned from Kreia), during the capture the Sith Assasins where able to board the Harbinger, they found out that there was a Jedi on board the vessel which marked the beginning of Kotor II.

 

Kreia tells you that Nihilus / Sion and herself were not the true Sith. I however think this is not true. Off course, there are more Sith than just Nihilus and Sion but how else was the Ravager be able to find the Ebon Hawk. Finding the Ebon Hawk in space is looking for a 1 mm needle in a haystack of about 10000000000 km wide.

 

Then there is the thing where Kreia boarded the Ebon Hawk. Was it on the True Sith world were Revan send the ship back to the Republic? Why not.

Did T3-M4 first found Kreia before he found the Exile? Maybe, that's true if Revan left the Ebon Hawk on Malachor V.

 

I am off course looking forward to what the developers think are the true sith. If there will be a Kotor III, we should know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't remember the Ravager ever finding the Ebon Hawk. As far as I know it was only the Harbinger with Sion that found it and they were not interested with the ship but the ship's cargo, the Exile. That is why Sion attacked the Harbinger in the first place, and you hear it on the holorecord, and Sion says: "I have come for the Jedi" who is the Exile.

 

I look at it like this:

 

"True Sith" refers to those who grew up with Sith teachings and were never Jedi.

Exar Kun is not a True Sith because he was a Fallen Jedi.

 

True Sith can refer to anyone whose teachings came directly through Sith heritage.

For instance, Palpatine was True Sith while Dukoo was a Fallen Jedi.

 

There is, of course, the "racial Sith" who have largely died out.  However, there are holes in that story that could be exploited to bring about an appearance of these "racial Sith" as well.  But True Sith does not necessarily have to be racial Sith.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's what I keep saying. The "True Sith" have to be those raised from babies, like the Jedi, learning the ways of the ancient Sith. Exar Kun, Ulic Qel-Droma, Revan, Malak, even Dooku and Vader would not be "True Sith" in my opinion though Lucas would call them that.

[Imperialist]

By the way, Sion was a Sith Master on Korriban under Revan and Malak's rule. He was not present on Malachor V. He may have been one of the Jedi that joined Revan in the Mandalorian Wars, or simply a soldier who was discovered to have a high midichlorian count, and taken into training. He was taught to master pain by Kreia, in the Trayus Academy, long after the Battle of Malachor V.

[hawk]

I don't remember the Ravager ever finding the Ebon Hawk. As far as I know it was only the Harbinger with Sion that found it and they were not interested with the ship but the ship's cargo, the Exile. That is why Sion attacked the Harbinger in the first place, and you hear it on the holorecord, and Sion says: "I have come for the Jedi" who is the Exile.

 

Well, there is a recording on the Harbinger that tells something about a Sith Vessel, the boarding parties from the Harbinger didn't found anyone alive within this "Sith Vessel" only a Sith Corpse (Sion). I assumed this Sith vessel was the Ravager and I believe I have read somewhere on this forum that there was some cut content regarding the Ravager.

There is also all these Sith Troopers on Peragus which you can blast while you are in the Ebon Hawk. Quiet unlikely that the Ravager wasn't there.

[Jedi Master D Murda]

Well, there is a recording on the Harbinger that tells something about a Sith Vessel, the boarding parties from the Harbinger didn't found anyone alive within this "Sith Vessel" only a Sith Corpse (Sion). I assumed this Sith vessel was the Ravager and I believe I have read somewhere on this forum that there was some cut content regarding the Ravager.

There is also all these Sith Troopers on Peragus which you can blast while you are in the Ebon Hawk. Quiet unlikely that the Ravager wasn't there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You're right. But Visas says that Nhilus travels on the edge of space away from those that can see him. I think the "Sith Vessel" was probably one of those ships that accompanied the Ravager to Telos or the ones Revan and Malak used.

[billybob65]

The Ravanger found the Ebon Hawk and a space battle occurred. If you read the logs in the Harbinger briefing room it would tell you about the distress call from the Ebon Hawk. The captain called his superiors and was told to find the Ebon Hawk. The captain was ordered to bring the Ebon Hawk back in one place because of the interest of other superiors (Carth). The Harbinger got to the sense and both the sith ship and the Ebon Hawk adrift in space. The Ebon Hawk was loaded in a shuttle bay and they linked up with the sith ship. From these logs I beleive that Kriea was searching for the exile in the Ebon Hawk and she was unaware that she was being followed until the sith ship fired upon. She probably boarded the sith ship and fight with Sion. If you remember the medical logs in the Harbinger the medical staff said that they were able to heal some of the scars and wounds from the corpse. I don't beleive that Sion would have been badly hurted from the Ebon Hawk firing upon their sith ship. Kriea then got back in the Ebon Hawk and the crew or maybe Nhilus was on the same ship ordered the crew to fire upon the Ebon Hawk. Remember the sith ship was not still attached to the Harbinger when it docked at Peragus. Maybe Nhilus took the sith ship and let Sion have the Harbinger.

[The Elite_elite]

I read somewhere that the True Sith were a race that died out, then the Dark Side believers took over that name or something like that.

 

Or maybe it was just someone spouting nonsense and it influenced my mind to think that way...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That was in KOTORI. When during one of the loading sesions it says

 

The true Sith died out years ago.

 

Or something along that line.

[billybob65]

Maybe that is what everyone thought about the True Sith. Revan was the only one with resources of once being the Dark Lord to know otherwise. He retraced his steps of his former life after the Star Forge and rediscovered the threat of the True Sith. Remember how no one know about the Rakatas. Maybe the True Sith was nearly edicated from existence during the reign of the Rakatas and they have been rebuilding their empire ever since the fall of the Rakatas. Now, they pose a threat to the Republic.