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Yeah, only Kreia wasn't evil. Just senile.

She certainly wasn't "pure evil" (even though Force Sight made her out to be

Sith Red as Darth Traya

-- maybe Force Sight identifies hostility rather than evilness?).

 

Senility nothwithstanding, she was more an absolute neutral, on a mission to "balance the Force"

by destroying it completely

.

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She certainly wasn't "pure evil" (even though Force Sight made her out to be

Sith Red as Darth Traya

-- maybe Force Sight identifies hostility rather than evilness?).

 

Senility nothwithstanding, she was more an absolute neutral, on a mission to "balance the Force"

by destroying it completely

.

You bring up a good point (and an excellent chance for thread derailment!). I think that since "good" and "evil" are pretty much made up notions and depend on who you ask, Force Sight would probably identify as "red" those who use the emotions that are supposed to fuel the "dark side" - anger, fear, hatred - rather than the intentions of the Force sensitive or his "philosophical outlook". After all, no evil person thinks of himself as evil. And those who do are often just sick...

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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You bring up a good point (and an excellent chance for thread derailment!). I think that since "good" and "evil" are pretty much made up notions and depend on who you ask, Force Sight would probably identify as "red" those who use the emotions that are supposed to fuel the "dark side" - anger, fear, hatred - rather than the intentions of the Force sensitive or his "philosophical outlook". After all, no evil person thinks of himself as evil. And those who do are often just sick...

A good test would be attacking that Mandalorians on Dantooine, who appear white -- if it is possible -- and then checking what colour they turn after hostilities commence. IF I hadn't uninstalled K2 Id' check this, but I don't expect to play it again until the content patch.)

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This latest discussion reminds me of the bizarity of the black Vulcan in Star Trek Voyager. There are no african-alien Vulcans, damnit! A black Vulcan is like an albino wookie. doesnt happen.

Of course there is: there were Vulcans of all ethnicities, why in Search for Spock there was a couple of asians (one even looked mongolian).

*simpsons comic book guy voice*

Evidence A. Up until the premiere of Star trek voyager, there had never been a black Vulcan shown in any of the many films and television series episodes. Not a single one.

I really don't know how you can make such a sweeping generalisation: there were precious few Vulcans shown in any of the television series. What's your sample space: one? But there certainly were in the films -- IIRC the first couple all had different ethnicities.

Evidence B. The Vulcans are a highly evolved society who has existed for tens of thousands of year living in total unity. Under these circumstances, it is impossible to retain ethnical diversity, resulting in a complete homogenisation of the species.

The racial characteristics would not "homogenise" over such a short period of time, and certainly wouldn't be as uniform as you are implying. For example, there are indeed albino africans, people with all the racial characteristics of africans but with a melanin content far inferior to "white" people. Also, how do you know that the Vulcans haven't specifically kept some racial groupings as well as the "generic homogenisation" that you are assuming?

Evidence C. The planet Vulcan has no climate zones, the entire planet is Arid. So it is  impossible for a part of the population to adapt so specific living conditions since those conditions are identical over the entire surface of the planet.

I don't know if your asertion is correct. Even if we assume for the moment that the climate is constant, this doesn't mean that ethnicity would be "bred out"; there would always be localizations. Don't forget that the Romulans are some sort of relation to the Vulcans, too. And there was a specific villain (played by the same actress who was the original security officer on TNG, also known for her playboy centrefold) who was blonde with light eyes, even though all Romulans are normally swarthy with dark hair and eyes.

Why does it matter, anyway? Why does it upset your worldview so much? Some people think that all swedes have blonde hair and blue eyes, too.

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I was thinking he meant more along the lines of swingers, incest, pedophilia, etc.

None of which have anything to do with homesexuality in any way.

 

And you, sir Yann, are a bigot for implying otherwise.

And I find it kind of funny

I find it kind of sad

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Are the best I've ever had

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I was thinking he meant more along the lines of swingers, incest, pedophilia, etc.

None of which have anything to do with homesexuality in any way.

 

And you, sir Yann, are a bigot for implying otherwise.

:(" (I know, I was being sarcastic.)

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I was thinking he meant more along the lines of swingers, incest, pedophilia, etc.

None of which have anything to do with homesexuality in any way.

 

And you, sir Yann, are a bigot for implying otherwise.

:(" (I know, I was being sarcastic.)

 

I realize that; I just saw a prime opportunity to denounce and unmask a monomaniac.

And I find it kind of funny

I find it kind of sad

The dreams in which I'm dying

Are the best I've ever had

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I always find it amusing when people call others "bigots" and then they proceed to defend some random traditional value.

 

So tell me. What's wrong with swingers? And as long as there is no actual procreation involved, what's wrong with incest between consenting adults?

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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I actually never defended anything. I simply said what I thought Yann referred to. And your question concerning incest is meant purely to bait, so I will ignore it.

And I find it kind of funny

I find it kind of sad

The dreams in which I'm dying

Are the best I've ever had

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I actually never defended anything. I simply said what I thought Yann referred to.  And your question concerning incest is meant purely to bait, so I will ignore it.

I won't. :D

... [A]s long as there is no actual procreation involved, what's wrong with incest between consenting adults?

Nothing at all, please go right ahead. :thumbsup:"

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I actually never defended anything. I simply said what I thought Yann referred to.  And your question concerning incest is meant purely to bait, so I will ignore it.

I see. And if he was referring to that, what's wrong with it (apart from pedophilia, obviously)?

 

And why is my question concerning incest bait? It is a perfectly legitimate question. Incest between two consenting adults harms no one, just like homosexuality, as long as there is no procreation. Your moral scale notwithstanding, there isn't really a difference.

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There's nothing wrong with it in and of itself. What I found offensive was how he connected these things with homosexuality and implied one led to the others.

And I find it kind of funny

I find it kind of sad

The dreams in which I'm dying

Are the best I've ever had

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There's nothing wrong with incest, provided there's no procreation, as you said. Certainly, government has no business forbidding it.

 

However, I've heard that many brothers and sisters who go down that route come to regret it, not because of society's reaction, but because of the damage done to the brother-sister relationship. I heard a radio programme a few months ago with several very moving accounts of this.

 

I think this issue is linked with homosexuality in the very general sense of the state not interfering with individuals' choices.

"An electric puddle is not what I need right now." (Nina Kalenkov)

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Me?

 

I'm old fashioned so I perfer the Man -women relationship

 

Homosexuality in games might encourage other things so the line has been drawna nd it should stay there

This guy is kidding, right?

 

Right?!?

 

Yann: You have every right to be "old fashioned," as you call it. However, once you draw that line for more people than yourself, then I do believe that "bigot" can also apply. By "other things" you wouldn't mean perhaps such improper thoughts as civil rights, equality, and/or self-determination, would you?

 

Jeez, you would think that if this guy had read any of the content of this thread....

 

Nevermind.

 

Cloris

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There's nothing wrong with incest, provided there's no procreation, as you said.  Certainly, government has no business forbidding it.

 

However, I've heard that many brothers and sisters who go down that route come to regret it, not because of society's reaction, but because of the damage done to the brother-sister relationship.  I heard a radio programme a few months ago with several very moving accounts of this.

 

I think this issue is linked with homosexuality in the very general sense of the state not interfering with individuals' choices.

Actually there is not immediate danger from procreation, either, to be completely accurate. It would take a few generations of incestuous relationships to create any real genetic problems ... social and psychological problems, on the other hand would certainly make this an untenable practice.

 

It's all a bit narcisistic, too, but I can understand the motivation: the people who know you best of all in the world (at least initially) are your siblings, as they have witnessed first hand your emotional growth so there exists a real understanding.

 

Underatanding doesn't equal amity, however. Just because I know my brother well doesn't mean I like him -- Obi-Wan and Anakin knew eack other pretty well and I doubt they want to sleep with each other (although, they did act like they had tried it in AotC. <_< ). I guess it is a salient reminder of why diversity is good; opposites can attract and viva la difference!

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Guest Fishboot

I just wanted to pop in and say something about "child death/abuse" in RPGs - I don't like it when these things are artificially prevented because it's wonderful to have real moral choices in a game. I played many games of Fallout and very, very rarely allowed any hurt to the child NPCs (I didn't even have the heart to do it with characters I though of as psychotic) - but if those children had all been invincible gods I wouldn't have felt any virtue in not killing them, since I didn't have a choice in the matter anyway. The lazy solution (not even having them present in the game, which has been mostly true of OE's releases as well as Bioware and Bethesda) is ubiquitous but anti-immersive.

 

I know companies are afraid to leave those things in the games for fear of getting run over by some hysterical media steamroller and it will never happen, but seeing game after game come out without a single child in giant metropolii is pretty weak, too.

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No producer/developer wants the aggrovation from card-carrying loonies screaming "Death to the purveyors of child abuse!" on their front lawns. It's much better to just avoid the issue entirely.

 

As for sensitive handling, there is a community mod (by Adam Miller, iIrc: Dreamcatcher 3) where the PC has to decide whether to kill a child who has a fatal illness, or give her vampire blood as a "cure". Obviously this is a pivotal moral dilemma. (Is it right to end a life, even if it is suffering, or is it better to curse the little girl to eternal undead?)

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Me?

 

I'm old fashioned so I perfer the Man -women relationship

 

Homosexuality in games might encourage other things so the line has been drawna nd it should stay there

This guy is kidding, right?

 

Right?!?

 

Yann: You have every right to be "old fashioned," as you call it. However, once you draw that line for more people than yourself, then I do believe that "bigot" can also apply. By "other things" you wouldn't mean perhaps such improper thoughts as civil rights, equality, and/or self-determination, would you?

 

Jeez, you would think that if this guy had read any of the content of this thread....

 

Nevermind.

 

Cloris

 

 

Just smile, nod, realize he is a troll, or a person with very odd taste in webcomics for someone so 'old-fashioned' (His avatar is a depiction of HK-47 from VG-Cats, one of the more well known strips in that comic is of Mario, coming to one of the castles, finding Toad, Toad says 'The Princess is not in this castle but another one' or some such, Mario says 'Who says I'm here for the Princess?', they proceed to turn the lights out and presumably have relations, considering the last panel is a Koopa turning on the light, while Mario and Toad have their pants down. )

 

Anyhow...I'm back from So-Cal.

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Just smile, nod, realize he is a troll, or a person with very odd taste in webcomics for someone so 'old-fashioned' ([Yann's] avatar is a depiction of HK-47 from VG-Cats, one of the more well known strips in that comic is of Mario, coming to one of the castles, finding Toad, Toad says 'The Princess is not in this castle but another one' or some such, Mario says 'Who says I'm here for the Princess?', they proceed to turn the lights out and presumably have relations, considering the last panel is a Koopa turning on the light, while Mario and Toad have their pants down.  )

 

Anyhow...I'm back from So-Cal.

Is Yann Mario or the toad? :("

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