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Revan_2005

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if you are looking to get your post count up it won't happen in Way Off Topic.

 

Political "debates" have come and gone on these boards - same old  crap each time.

 

Do you you actually think anybody is that shallow to try and start a political debate just to get his post count up?! That would be, by far, the sadest thing I have ever heard!!! :blink:

 

Sure these debates come and go but politics don't ever get old! It's a way of finding out how the people we're talking to tick. I gues you've be here long enough, but i would like to here what other people are all about. I know it won't matter one bit in the real world, but if there are more people like you, who post frequently (check your post count), this could turn into a healthy conversation between people who have more on their minds than just fun and games.

 

No offense Flatus, but that's about as "NONVIOLENT" as I can be when I'm reading a post like yours!

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if you are looking to get your post count up it won't happen in Way Off Topic.

 

Political "debates" have come and gone on these boards - same old  crap each time.

 

Do you you actually think anybody is that shallow to try and start a political debate just to get his post count up?! That would be, by far, the sadest thing I have ever heard!!! :blink:

 

Sure these debates come and go but politics don't ever get old! It's a way of finding out how the people we're talking to tick. I gues you've be here long enough, but i would like to here what other people are all about. I know it won't matter one bit in the real world, but if there are more people like you, who post frequently (check your post count), this could turn into a healthy conversation between people who have more on their minds than just fun and games.

 

No offense Flatus, but that's about as "NONVIOLENT" as I can be when I'm reading a post like yours!

 

 

Political discussions here get ugly. Very ugly.

 

Makes good entertainment actually.

"Things are funny...are comedic, because they mix the real with the absurd." - Buzz Aldrin.

"P-O-T-A-T-O-E" - Dan Quayle

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Political discussions here get ugly.  Very ugly.

 

See, I'm not the only one who thinks that.

 

Dude!!! So far we're having a very pleasant political debate about the uglyness of such! :blink:

 

Bah, political debates almost always end in flame wars. Ex. "Bush went to war to free Iraq." "No he didn't, he did it for oil." "Dude, you're a friggen noob you don't know what you're talking about" "No, you're the noob" "No you are. Friggen leftwing" "Dumbass rightwinger" and so on. This is what happens. Maybe they don't call each other noobs but you get the idea.

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... Anyway, Since the war is done with. Do any people think ANYTHING constructive will come out of it? the Iraqi Prime Minister has failed to fill his cabinet as he swears in, not good but atleast its legit. It seems as though its a STEP in the right direction. sure i know its not going to be completely democratic(neither is US, or MANY other countries), its probably going to be a olagarchi during its first stages and works its way up. Thats all humans as a society do generally, take tiny steps, unless its a bloody revolution and start communism and it ends up to be like a jail (Lenin's version of Communism).

 

So iraq, small step backwards or forward progress?

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Well I'm more concerned about what will happen to the Republic if all the Jedi are killed in the Clone Wars. Theres been talk that Emperor Palpatine might dissolve the Senate and give power to the regional Governors. I don't know things seem pretty bleak, if only there was some sort of New Hope.

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Well I'm more concerned about what will happen to the Republic if all the Jedi are killed in the Clone Wars. Theres been talk that Emperor Palpatine might dissolve the Senate and give power to the regional Governors. I don't know things seem pretty bleak, if only there was some sort of New Hope.

 

Now really I don't think giving the power to the regional governors is all that bad. I mean sure it might not be a representative government but it would be a lot more efficient.

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... Anyway, Since the war is done with.  Do any people think ANYTHING constructive will come out of it?  the Iraqi Prime Minister has failed to fill his cabinet as he swears in,  not good but atleast its legit.  It seems as though its a STEP in the right direction. sure i know its not going to be completely democratic(neither is US, or MANY other countries), its probably going to be a olagarchi during its first stages and works its way up.  Thats all humans as a society do generally, take tiny steps, unless its a bloody revolution and start communism and it ends up to be like a jail (Lenin's version of Communism).

 

So iraq, small step backwards or forward progress?

 

Well I'll try and pick up on that and risk a flamewar (I've built me a bunker...20000 miles below sealevel :lol: )!

 

I think everything basically would basicaly turn out to be an improvement compared to the previous situation in Iraq! The small steps are just kind of real "babysteps". I mean, right now, they really have no chance of kicking off a democracy. There is simply no real information flow, that would allow for mature voting. The way I see it religious factions play too much of a roll there (way more than in the US :shifty:" ), but that's the problem with all counties that didn't benefit from the age of enlightenment.

 

So, overall still a step forward! Let's see how it develops.

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I think the problem with the new government in Iraq is that many people in Iraq doesn't feel as if it is their own. Sure, they had Saddam before and he wasn't good. But he ended up in power because of their own (bad) choices. This government, although 'democratically' chosen, feels more as an extention of the occupying forces than a real publicly chosen government. Which is why they're getting killed, one by one, in a number of horrible bombings and shootings.

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People in iraq want to live their lives as good muslims, democracy doesnt really figure into that.

 

A truly democratic govt should be representative of its people, shi'a muslims make up the largest demographic and they look to their clerics for guidance. the next largest ethnic group are the kurds and they would most likely want their own independent state.

 

This makes for difficult times ahead.

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I think the problem with the new government in Iraq is that many people in Iraq doesn't feel as if it is their own. Sure, they had Saddam before and he wasn't good. But he ended up in power because of their own (bad) choices. This government, although 'democratically' chosen, feels more as an extention of the occupying forces than a real publicly chosen government. Which is why they're getting killed, one by one, in a number of horrible bombings and shootings.

Eh, IIRC, the participation on the Iraqi election was ~60%. Not bad considering the risk that voting involved and the fact that the elections were sponsored by an occupying power. Check the figures on the referendums for the European Constitution in some places for comparison. :wub:

 

And sorry, but there is no excuse for terrorism. Much less this terrorism. It is believed that most of the terrorist attacks are planned and executed by sunni groups that, having lost their preeminent position as the dominant ethnia (Saddam himself was sunni and greatly oppressed the other groups), are just trying to cause unstability. It really has nothing to do with the democratic process.

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sunni muslims make up the largest demographic and they look to their clerics for guidance. the next largest ethnic group are the kurds and they would most likely want their own independent state.

Um, no. Sunni arabs and Kurds make up only for about 30 or 40 percent of the Iraqi population. The rest are Shiites.

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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People in iraq want to live their lives as good muslims, democracy doesnt really figure into that.

 

A truly democratic govt should be representative of its people, sunni muslims make up the largest demographic and they look to their clerics for guidance. the next largest ethnic group are the kurds and they would most likely want their own independent state.

 

This makes for difficult times ahead.

 

Actually, the largest Demographic is the Shi'ite muslims, not the Sunnis.

 

Plus, democracy is not necessarily contradictory to Islam. There are many issues today which the Qu'ran and Hadith do not cover, and one valid Islamic way of making decisions in such a situation is the consensus of the Islamic community, and a democratic process is a possible way to decide these issues. Yes, one can take an extremist position and decree that democracy is godless and contrary to the policy of Islam, and everything should be decided by the Islamic holy leaders, but it is my belief that such people are the very vocal minority within Iraq. If the people of Iraq were so opposed to democracy because they believed it to be contrary to Islam, the occupation, to quote Admiral Yamamoto, would be facing a rifle behind every blade of grass.

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OH sh*t that was an honest mistake i did mean to write shi'a/shi'te instead of sunni. That was me being unmindful :blink: :">

 

Those issues which the koran and hadith do not cover are not up for debate by everbody. The only decision considered canon would be a bunch of clerics deciding how to deal with it. In the past they have always erred on the side of caution. They may be in the minorty but their influence is far greater than you seem to give them credit.

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