What is your Alignment?

[Reveilled]

Considering how often I've been chased down the street and threatened with broken bottles, I'm quite willing to count a lot of people as evil.

[metadigital]

Considering how often I've been chased down the street and threatened with broken bottles, I'm quite willing to count a lot of people as evil.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, wasn't that the whole point of William Golding's Lord of the Flies?

[Reveilled]

Considering how often I've been chased down the street and threatened with broken bottles, I'm quite willing to count a lot of people as evil.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, wasn't that the whole point of William Golding's Lord of the Flies?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

:"> Actually...I've never read it. Or seen the film.

[SteveThaiBinh]

Yeah, wasn't that the whole point of William Golding's Lord of the Flies?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I tend to look at the Lord of the Flies as the exception that proves the rule. Yes, kids in such extreme circumstances might descend to the level of savages, but most people in most situations don't, therefore most people are not evil. Faultless logic (???).

[Nartwak]

Well, there have been studies, Steve.

[SteveThaiBinh]

Well, there have been studies, Steve.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Artificially-created and extreme situations, where people are manipulated into behaving in a certain way. I'm not arguing about the fact that people can behave badly in some situations, but about whether this makes them evil people. Did the participants in these experiments, after they had finished, reflect on them and feel shock at how they had behaved? Moreover, Milgram's study is about authority and obedience, not directly about good and evil.

[Nartwak]

Are you trying to miss the point? **** you, Steve. I'm not going to hand walk you through this.

[Lord-Nihilus]

CHAOTIC EVIL i suppose, i cant remember the alignments well because its been a long time since NWN, but i prefer the DARK SIDE anyday.

[metadigital]

:"> Actually...I've never read it.  Or seen the film.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My lovely Public School had us watch it when I was about nine years old. Basically just says people are nasty: very Hobbesian outlook: survival of the fittest.

Well, there have been studies, Steve.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Artificially-created and extreme situations, where people are manipulated into behaving in a certain way. I'm not arguing about the fact that people can behave badly in some situations, but about whether this makes them evil people. Did the participants in these experiments, after they had finished, reflect on them and feel shock at how they had behaved? Moreover, Milgram's study is about authority and obedience, not directly about good and evil.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My psychology text book ws written by one Philip Zimbardo. Even if you haven't done much (any) psychology, you will probably be familiar with his seminal thesis. In it he proves the power of the situation; he took a couple of dozen uni students (always good fodder) and had half be prisoners and half be guards. By the end of the week, the "guards" were treating the "prisoners" like dirt, and the "prisoners" were acting like victims.

 

The students are still emotionally scarred when they are interviewed now, almost thirty years later. Needless to say this was one of the last experiments to use people without getting informed consent, which kinda defeats the purpose of most Psych tests.

 

Anyway, back on the topic, Steve, you may want to believe everyone is good, but you are mistaken. I know for a fact, because I have met and dealt with people who are not good people. If you haven't met these people, either you haven't recognised them, or you have been extraordinarily lucky. You'll be rationalising the Chinese government's handling of Tianamen Square next. (While you're following that link, just peruse the Amnesty International site a bit; heck, I'll buy you a year's membership if it'll help you see.)

[SteveThaiBinh]

Anyway, back on the topic, Steve, you may want to beleive everyone is good, but you are mistaken.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's not actually what I said.

 

As I understand it, what's being suggested is that these experiments revealed the essentially evil nature of the participants, and I'm saying that the situations twisted essentially decent people into doing evil things. I haven't studied psychology, so what you've said is interesting to me. I'll reflect on it and try to meet some evil people. :ph34r:

[metadigital]

Anyway, back on the topic, Steve, you may want to believe everyone is good, but you are mistaken.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's not actually what I said.

 

As I understand it, what's being suggested is that these experiments revealed the essentially evil nature of the participants, and I'm saying that the situations twisted essentially decent people into doing evil things. I haven't studied psychology, so what you've said is interesting to me. I'll reflect on it and try to meet some evil people. :ph34r:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As my father was fond of saying to me ... "Everyone's nice until the money's on the table."

[Cantousent]

**I posted this and then thought it was too didactic. Finally, I decided that I don't care if I'm didactic, and so I'm posting it again.**

 

I have no doubt that some folks are evil. However, I think you're going to find more evil in folks when you stack the deck in favor of evil actions. A truly legitimate study would take place in our normal environment. So, while some folks are more predisposed towards evil acts and some folks are more predisposed towards good acts, the best judge for the nature of humanity will always be the broad swath in the middle.

 

It seems to me that we start out in life with a large dose of self-interest. That's a good thing, as our survival as individuals is tied to our survival as a species. As we travel on our way through life, we are subject to a variety of experiences in which we develop our personality. In all of us, there is that seed of self-interest which is the source of our selfish acts and natural tendency to disregard the needs of others.

 

However, most of us are also exposed to kindness. Nature, when it gave us an innate understanding of self-interest, also included an innate desire to care for and love our young. Our survival as a species is tied to our survival as individuals. The vast majority of us, and all of us here by the very nature of these boards if nothing else, live in a society amongst other people. We must learn to live with others and help others live with us. We develop morals, ethics, and other philosophical devices by which we judge right and wrong.

 

Ultimately, I see that we each have the seeds of both good and evil. In the end, I believe that most of us are misguided but rather good on the whole. Man's history of evil acts is quite extensive, but I see humanity and I am personally filled with hope. The fact that we still debate good and evil; that we still shout in outrage at injustice; that we weep at the suffering of others... these all tell me that most people are pretty decent at heart.

 

For myself, I'm a weak neutral, but I know I have the capacity to be so much more with a little help. I strive for the good and, even though I may fail, I know the good is there somewhere to be found.

[Aponez]

Errr.....5 battleships a day???

 

As for Aponez, I think you are sorely underestimating the usefullness of the german tanks.

 

If the Panzer IV was such a crap tank, why was it still able to punch holes in Allied armor towards the end of the war.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Alanschu, I didn't say that the Panzer IV was a crap tank, the Panzer IV that the germans used in Poland and France in 1939 and 1940 was very different that the Panzer IV of 1943-45, in France and Poland the Panzer IV were the Ausf A., Ausf B., Ausf C and Ausf D, his gun was a low barrel 75 mm gun who couldn't fire armor piercing shells because of his low initial speed, the Panzer IV of the end of the war had changed the old 75/24 for a 75/48 and had an armor of 80 mm not the 50 mm of the Panzer IV Ausf A-F1 (the F2 was a F1 with a 75/43 gun).

[Ya Zhen]

I haven't read Lord of the Flies yet, however I do know there was a film called "The Experiment" which followed a storyline similer to the experiments with Prisoners and Guards. As for myself, I am definitly chaotic; however the good/evil spectrum is a bit more difficult for me. I'm inclined to say Neutral; overall I find the subjects of good and evil far to biased to try to stay within. I try to be as nice as possible to people, however I do have a bit of a vindictive side. Usually it's more towards trying to teach the person to help themselves, tough love, rather than true malice though ^_^.

[metadigital]

I haven't read Lord of the Flies yet, however I do know there was a film called "The Experiment" which followed a storyline similer to the experiments with Prisoners and Guards. As for myself, I am definitly chaotic; however the good/evil spectrum is a bit more difficult for me. I'm inclined to say Neutral; overall I find the subjects of good and evil far to biased to try to stay within. I try to be as nice as possible to people, however I do have a bit of a vindictive side. Usually it's more towards trying to teach the person to help themselves, tough love, rather than true malice though ^_^.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, a sort of "Good-Chaotic-Neutral" type? (Like North North-West is more north than West-North-West.)

[Wynne]

I don't really care about any given system as long as it promotes good. If I'm sure it promotes evil, I will fight it in whatever way I can. I believe laws and structures are often helpful, but that they shouldn't become too restrictive, and the populace should agree on them, not just some elite.

 

Neutral good.

[metadigital]

I don't really care about any given system as long as it promotes good. If I'm sure it promotes evil, I will fight it in whatever way I can. I believe laws and structures are often helpful, but that they shouldn't become too restrictive, and the populace should agree on them, not just some elite.

 

Neutral good.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How do you define "evil"? Is it purely self-interest, or is it willful hurting of others for no gain, or something else ...?

[213374U]

 

"Good is a point of view, Anakin."

[metadigital]

Except, of course the unbending Lawful Good. Then, under those black and white rules, there is no pov to discolour the Good and dilute the Evil. Unfortunately, not everyone is Lawful Good, and there is a lot of argument about the grey areas ...

[Roger]

But anyone could be Lawful Good. Just become the law and see who dares to call you otherwise.

[Jericka]

Chaotic Good. I don't know why I love being the good guy, but I'll go to any lengths to get the light through to people. Any. *Taps idly on her lightsaber hilt*

[Weiser_Cain]

Lawful Evil, ask anyone.

[jaguars4ever]

Lawful Evil, ask anyone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nah, you're just a prick.

[Weiser_Cain]

Well I guess you showed me who's the better man.

[Gabrielle]

Lawful Evil