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RobMcB

KOTOR 3 - Truth or speculation

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Frankly I don't give much of a damn as far as graphics is concerned, if the time was spent fleshing out the story and characters more to make K3 a complete and fully polished game they can use the same engine the third time for all I care. I'm in these games for the storyline and characters, game engines are very far on my list of priorities. But it was already mentioned by many that if K3 were done it would have a new engine and a whole new set of bugs too as a great companion for its maiden voyage yay!

 

But no, if it is made K3 will probably be just another K2 in terms of story. Some noob finishing out the quests embarked upon by both Revan and Exile who will be degenerated to a crappy cameo or some really stupid dialogue of what happened to them if they are mentioned at all.

 

Will there be a K3, maybe and I might go as far as probably. After all the point of KotOR has been for it to sell and both games certainly did that. Though K2 has suffered negative backlash in terms of the bugs, cut content, and all the droves of speculation and flames where the series should go next and who should be its star. Bottom line is that K3 would more than likely sell, maybe not as much as K1 or K2 if the quality of 3 goes further south but it will probably sell. Much like the JK series KotOR would sell at least a few more games in decline until the series is eventually scrapped.

 

This is of course should K3 not be improved upon K2 and even K1 both in stability for gameplay and its actual story/character content. Whether Bioware returned for K3 or Obsidian had a shot at it I believe both would give a good effort. Bioware invented this so they could theoretically take the story where originally envisioned (Though K1 was supposed to be more of a self contained game with no sequel) and Obsidian does great storytelling and has learned a great deal I believe from K2's experience. I'd be curious to see what either one would do with K3.

 

But for the moment I'm not really optimistic on K3 at all, neither in it being made or that if it were it would be worth it. Hope I'm wrong though on both accounts.

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I think the Exile had a more interesting fleshed out story. KOTOR1 though a great game had a story tooone dimensional compared to KOTOR2 Obsidian should do KOTOR3 since they know where to go with it.

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I think the Exile had a more interesting fleshed out story. KOTOR1 though a great game had a story tooone dimensional compared to KOTOR2 Obsidian should do KOTOR3 since they know where to go with it.

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Only if they learn to say, "**** YOU LFL, we'll be done with it when we're done."

 

Bioware seemed to be able to do it, and very good game of the year came out of it.


KOTOR 2 must be completed

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Bioware seemed to be able to do it, and very good game of the year came out of it.

 

You sure about that? I'm not contesting it, since I don't have factual proof either, but perhaps Lucasarts "allowed" Bioware more time because they realized Bioware had to create an entire engine from scratch, whereas that part was already done for Obsidian and thus no reason to have a long development cycle.


"Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque

"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)

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Bioware seemed to be able to do it, and very good game of the year came out of it.

 

You sure about that? I'm not contesting it, since I don't have factual proof either, but perhaps Lucasarts "allowed" Bioware more time because they realized Bioware had to create an entire engine from scratch, whereas that part was already done for Obsidian and thus no reason to have a long development cycle.

 

 

Bioware seem quite firm on their boards, saying that it will be done when it's done. Clearly LFL wasn't going to push them around.

 

Obsidian might have had the engine, but they clearly didn't have time to finish it.

 

Bioware finished it, and has multiple push backs. Even KOTOR was supposed to come out Christmas 2002, but was pushed back 5 or 6 times until July 17 2003.

 

Finished when it's finished.


KOTOR 2 must be completed

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Bioware seem quite firm on their boards, saying that it will be done when it's done. Clearly LFL wasn't going to push them around.

 

Obsidian might have had the engine, but they clearly didn't have time to finish it.

 

Bioware finished it, and has multiple push backs. Even KOTOR was supposed to come out Christmas 2002, but was pushed back 5 or 6 times until July 17 2003.

 

Finished when it's finished.

 

That seems right. As much as I like the way Obsidian tells a story, perhaps it would be best if they not do another LA title right now. It would be great to have LA BEG BioWare to do KOTOR III on BioWare's terms.

 

It would also be nice to be able to use that new Jade Empire engine with it.

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and rightfully so.

 

What KOTOR 2 needs now is Leland Chee continuity hands, or someboby like Abel Pena(who is really good at fixing stuff), and to take the cut stuff and make it continuity.

 

KOTOR 2 needs adaptation, and to be finished by other means.


KOTOR 2 must be completed

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Only if they learn to say, "**** YOU LFL, we'll be done with it when we're done."

 

Bioware seemed to be able to do it, and very good game of the year came out of it.

 

Yup, unluckily for Obsidian the terms were diffirent:

 

1. Bioware was a big company already who couldn't and wouldn't be pushed around by suits with excel charts and businessmodels.

2. Suddenly KotOR won a sh1tload of awards and sold atleast 1 million copies. The suits at LA saw oppurtunity when hiring a new company, recommended by Bioware, who wouldn't be so persistent against their excellent excel flowcharts and bulletproof businessmodels.


"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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Yup, unluckily for Obsidian the terms were diffirent:

 

1. Bioware was a big company already who couldn't and wouldn't be pushed around by suits with excel charts and businessmodels.

2. Suddenly KotOR won a sh1tload of awards and sold atleast 1 million copies. The suits at LA saw oppurtunity when hiring a new company, recommended by Bioware, who wouldn't be so persistent against their excellent excel flowcharts and bulletproof businessmodels.

 

Well, true to a point. I believe that LA wanted BioWare to do the second one but BioWare said "nah, we're working on Jade Empire". Then, LA asked for recommendations and Obsidian was recommended. So far, so good.

 

But then LA sensed the opportunity to muscle their way around and took full advantage of it. They couldn't do that with an established company.

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That's what probably 'went down' in the OE 'hood'... Off topic: Have you ever tried to rewrite the translated Odyssey into modern slang? It was quite hilarious, and ended up something like "Yo, dog, what's going down in the hood, homie?" Then again, I'm not a fluent in slang...

 

LA seems like OPEC and Congress... (Okay, I was TRULY serious about the first one).


Geekified Star Wars Geek

 

Heart of the Force, Arm of the Force

 

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes!"

-Obi-wan to Anakin (NOT advocating Grey-Jedidom)

 

"The Force doesn't control people, Kreia controls people."

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I think the Exile had a more interesting fleshed out story. KOTOR1 though a great game had a story tooone dimensional compared to KOTOR2 Obsidian should do KOTOR3 since they know where to go with it.

 

I think K2 was better written but I don't think it had a better story. I agree with you that K1's story was very one dimensional though K2 was not that much farther ahead of it, at least I didn't find it to be as much as some might say.

 

For me K2 has going for it characters like Kreia and Atton who I really liked a lot. T3 was superbly integrated this time so that too. Hk, Mira and Mandalore were alright as was Bao-Dur. Visas and Handmaiden were also ok but they never really grew on me much. Hated Disciple, Hanharr and GO-TO. I also liked worlds like Onderon and Nar Shadaa but in the end not as much as I'd hoped I'd like them. I half liked influence and did like how your actions affected planets.

 

Like I said I think K2 was better written than K1 but I liked K1's overall story more even if it was one dimensional. I liked the setting of the Jedi vs Sith war more than the Jedi are all dead yet not and Sith are all hunting you yet don't appear for 75% of the game scenario. I like Revan more than Exile, I find Revan's story much more interesting as redemption and attonement or self discovery of your own true evil self than I find Exile's you were banished for disobeying, help us we need you, ok thanks now be gone again of K2. I was really liking K2 at least close to K1 until the return to the academy on Dantooine and the copout of Kreia with the Masters so you chase her happened. Telos, Nihilus, Malachor V, Trayus Academy, Sion, Traya all were very disappointing both in storyline result and gameplay difficulty. The ending or lack thereof ruined it further for me so while I liked 70% of the game the last 30% really sunk it.

 

K2's darker tone was cool as I like dark, but the overall story you're the last known Jedi yet aren't and just jet from one planet to another fighting pirates, mercs, pickpockets and guild thieves just didn't attract me as much as K1 did in the end, I just liked the war scenario better. And while I liked Kreia a lot, I liked Jolee as my mentor-ish character much more, particularly with Kreia's motives and end result. Nihilus was a supremely more interesting concept and much more impressive looking character than Malak yet Nihilus was a mere cameo and so easy to beat I almost reloaded to see what had happened since I blinked, had Malak's character become Nihilus once he became Lord of the Sith; looked like him, spoken like him, destroyed worlds like Nihilus supposedly had, then I'd have no complaints at all from Malak. Still in the end Malak had a much more prominent role than Nihilus and Sion put together.

 

Who should make K3? I don't know, the way it was left off I'd say Obsidian should do it since they know where they want to take it and I'd hate for a new company to try to put their own story over where Obsidians, I have little faith in replacement storytellers. But considering how the storyline progressed after return to Dantooine, I'm concerned where the story would go in K3.

 

As it stands K2 is my Dune Messiah to K1 that is my Dune. I half like how dramatic and tragic it is but it has also messed so much with the characters I grew to like that I also half don't like it and it plain depresses me to play it especially nearing the end. If K3 is anything like Children of Dune (In keeping with the same metaphor) then like those books, I'll really just love the original while somewhat like the other two for some things but dislike it just as much for others. But then it is always extremely difficult to match the original.

 

My two cents.

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Who should make K3? I don't know, the way it was left off I'd say Obsidian should do it since they know where they want to take it and I'd hate for a new company to try to put their own story over where Obsidians, I have little faith in replacement storytellers. But considering how the storyline progressed after return to Dantooine, I'm concerned where the story would go in K3.

 

Right, and therein lies the problem. Obsidian and BioWare tell stories much differently. A number of people have expressed the hope that it will be a joint venture between BioWare and Obsidian. I don't know how feasible that is but that would probably be best: let Obsidian handle the story and let BioWare handle gameplay.

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I just really hope they keep making these games...they are the only games I really look forward to and enjoy playing....

 

the light vs darkside thing is done very well in these series..unlike jk and etc.

 

 

and its my first rpg I played...yes Im new...and its the only ones I can really get into

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It was actually one of the first RPG's I've played (other than a few minor ones, but Kotor I was my first MAJOR RPG). It got me hooked, entirely, on RPG's (I still delve into RTS's because I'm a sucker for problem solving and strategy, and FPS's like StarSiege).

 

Since then, I've played several major RPG series, and I just started on the 'fabled' D&D/Forgotten Realms RPG's...


Geekified Star Wars Geek

 

Heart of the Force, Arm of the Force

 

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes!"

-Obi-wan to Anakin (NOT advocating Grey-Jedidom)

 

"The Force doesn't control people, Kreia controls people."

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The orginal KOTOR had a classic theme of storyline to it. taking place during the midst of the Jedi Civil War and fighting all the way from the streets of Taris to the final confrontation with Darth Malak. Not that the TSL was bad.

 

I personally liked the Exile's character more than Revan. The Exile had a much more mysterious past than Revan. The Exile had seen war at the frontlines under Revan's command. You could also say that the Exile was much more powerful than Revan, given the Exile's amount of powers he/she can obtain.

 

Either way both characters are complete IMO, and really don't have much more history to go around. I'd personally like to play as a new character, a rich background and a strange connection to the force.

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Personally, I wouldn't mind playing a NORMAL PERSON in Kotor III. This gives us NORMAL abilities, and our mission is to find out what happened to EXTRAORDINARY PEOPLE, and, in doing so, maybe find out that even Mr. Joe Schmoe can save the galaxy...


Geekified Star Wars Geek

 

Heart of the Force, Arm of the Force

 

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes!"

-Obi-wan to Anakin (NOT advocating Grey-Jedidom)

 

"The Force doesn't control people, Kreia controls people."

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Personally, I wouldn't mind playing a NORMAL PERSON in Kotor III. This gives us NORMAL abilities, and our mission is to find out what happened to EXTRAORDINARY PEOPLE, and, in doing so, maybe find out that even Mr. Joe Schmoe can save the galaxy...

 

Statement: how about seeing the star wars galaxy through the eyes of HK 47 >_<

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Personally, I wouldn't mind playing a NORMAL PERSON in Kotor III. This gives us NORMAL abilities, and our mission is to find out what happened to EXTRAORDINARY PEOPLE, and, in doing so, maybe find out that even Mr. Joe Schmoe can save the galaxy...

 

 

ROFL. I heard they already made a game like that. It was called Star Wars: Galaxies. You know... that game where you can be anything BUT a Jedi :huh:

 

The flaming hoops they made the players jump through to become a Jedi made the training Luc went through look like a piece of cake :p

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Not literally. I mean a normal average Jedi.

 

I hate galaxies... too much pointless crunching.

 

But, if we are just a normal Jedi, then it would help show that average isn't always bad... That way the character would actually be OUR OWN. We could make up reasons for them joining the Jedi/Sith, etc.


Geekified Star Wars Geek

 

Heart of the Force, Arm of the Force

 

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes!"

-Obi-wan to Anakin (NOT advocating Grey-Jedidom)

 

"The Force doesn't control people, Kreia controls people."

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I think you may be in the minority. Most people, myself included, may prefer Revan.

 

Revan I was able to tie with more easily, plus the fact he was in a classic game makes him more memorable.

 

Because of LA, The Exile will probably the PC in a disliked game everywhere... I loved Kotor II, personally. Revan is still my favorite, though.


Geekified Star Wars Geek

 

Heart of the Force, Arm of the Force

 

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes!"

-Obi-wan to Anakin (NOT advocating Grey-Jedidom)

 

"The Force doesn't control people, Kreia controls people."

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Yes but Revan has a predefined personality not much role-playing in that :-

 

The Exile on the other hand is defined by all his dialogs,you can even chose his reasons for going to war :)

 

Revan is a great character but he no longer is your character :devil:

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I disagree with you Baley. Revan is only defined as much as his actions during the Mandalorian and Sith War (Or Jedi Civil War for those that prefer the K2 term) but Revan is hardly defined as a complete character.

 

You know next to nothing about who Revan was before he entered the Jedi, what planet does he/she come from, what family does Revan have, how did the events of K1 and K2 affect and shape how Revan is now. I think there are huge Role Playing Possibilities as far as Revan is concerned. Some people (Myself included) believe that the questions Bastila asks you in Dantooine about your past are the actual background of Revan some think it was just part of the fake personality the Council put on him/her. Either way there is still plenty to learn of Revan's story, even more now as K2 made Revan even more important, revealing his past with Kreia and Malachor V. Plus there is still a lot more to resolve as Revan; the true Sith, the Bastila/Carth relationship, the state of the Jedi following K2, if anything that's the protaonist that has the most to offer in story terms.

 

Exile meanwhile is pretty much left in the same place he/she started in, so while his/her issues of where he/she is going are unresolved in the grand scheme I find Exile much less important than Revan. K2 was pretty much a search for Revan, following the footsteps of what he/she did, understanding why those choices were made, basically K2 just made Revan even more central and important than the Exile. All we got of the Exile is he/she was an outcast former general, who happened to be strung along by just about everybody in the entire K2 game. Don't get me wrong I like the Exile, but given the chance I'd much rather contniue exploring Revan now that I took a break from him/her as Chris Avellone implied in an interview way in the beginning of K2's development.

 

Exile is just as much a predifined personality as Revan is and to be honest so will be a brand new idiot in K3 where they'll probably go. All characters are predefined, the game just lets you know what those stories are during the course of play and at the very most allows you to choose 1 or 2 variables in the details never in the overall. Does that really make you think your character is your character? Do you think that I would have chosen to be an exiled Jedi and followed the course the game set if I had the actual ability to define the character the way I wanted? These are never your characters, they are the writer's characters and you get to customize them a little bit to your taste.

 

This is why I laugh when people complain about a set voice, name or background. No the character isn't mine anymore, well never actually was. Some people might prefer to make up their own backgrounds and stories in their minds to keep some notion the character is their own but not me. I'd much rather have a fully fleshed and detailed character with the choices to changes some aspects to my liking, instead of just imagining some background that will never even show up ingame. It kinda takes away from my character when he/she is just a simple role to play in the current situation and has absolutely no ties to a past or anything remotely resembling a life.

 

My two cents.

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Reven get's his\her memory back after Kotor so the PC persona the council created dosen't exist anymore.

Role-playing him would be like playing Mastar Vrook(for example)

He has a predefined personality and personal reasons for going to the unexplored regiones.

 

The Exile only has the personality you created(good or bad) and that's what role-playing is :thumbsup:

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