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I just finished Icewind Dale!!!


Craigboy2

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"it's not my full "IWD is great"-speech. Just a summary."

 

O.o.

 

 

"gain I have to counter that if IWD wasn't story driven, then BG1 wasn't either. The quality of the plots to both games was IMO on the same level"

 

Not discussing quality here. I'm talking about what drives the game. In BG; it's finding out who's trying to kill you and learning about your past. In IWD, the story is just an exuse to get the player to the next dunegon.

 

I'll put this to better to illustrate this: IWD is combat driven while the OC is story driven; HOWEVER it is very arguable that IWD has the better quality story (since there's a lot less logic gaps and its much tighter); but there's a difference in what the two games focused on. It doesn't matter how much a game has combat; but why the combat is there.

 

 

"I still consider "Trials of the Luremaster" to be the best IE expansion."

 

It was ok. Nothing special for its 2 hours length. My fave - and I'll know I'll get flak for it - but, I'll say TOB is.

 

 

"Just because a company still exists doesn't mean they're making the better games."

 

Wasn't addressing quality here really; but someone's assertion that somehow my opinion that Bg is better than IWD is somehow a minority opinion is just plain foolish. It's obvious that Bg is more liked than IWD which I'd wager means that more people think BG is better. This is as close to being factual without having any actual hard numbers as you can have.

 

 

"Also you have to admit that Bioware wouldn't be standing where they are now if it wouldn't have been for Interplay/BIS picking up their "Battleground Infinity" game."

 

BIO is ehre for one reaosn only - they deliver what people want. That is the only reason why Interplay "picked up" BIO. You seem to forget that before the NWN fiasco; Interplay had published EVERY BIO game. And, I think it says volume that when Interplay looked to finally use their D&D license again they got BIo to work on it instead of putting BIS on it. Again, don't give credit to Interplay/BIS for BIo's success. BIO is 100% responsible for their success and will be responsible 100% for any failures.

 

 

"but personally I prefer the BIS games for several reasons"

 

I favour BIO (lol, too obvious) pverall; but the Fo series will always help make it kinda close. Those are the only BIS games that even challenge BIO's Triad. IWD, while good, and PST while having a good story and characters just don't match up.

 

To each their own. Of course, I love BIS too so me lking BIo more is not an insult towards them.

 

 

"Definitely. I wholeheartedly agree."

 

I don't. The IE art is virtually equal in my book.

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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The Volourn Cycle:

 

1. Identify thread where a small, not-worth-dying-in-a-ditch for point has been made with which he disagrees.

 

2. Wade in with grossly opinionated, rude, semi-coherent and invariably misspelt rant. State that your opinion is fact.

 

3. Wait for reply (this, ladies and gentlemen, is apparently known as Trolling).

 

4. At some point insert the word "R00fles"!!!

 

5. Back to point 2, rinse and repeat. Ad nauseum.

 

6. Thread gets locked, back to general forum and repeat point 1.

 

Seriously, Vol, you are the new Visceris. It's really, really, stale. Please report me to various moderators and link to this particular post of mine as Exhibit "A"

 

Cheers

MC

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Volourn,Apr 4 2005, 06:05 PM

Not discussing quality here. I'm talking about what drives the game. In BG; it's finding out who's trying to kill you and learning about your past. In IWD, the story is just an exuse to get the player to the next dunegon.

 

While I agree with you on IWD's story being mostly an excuse for combat I will say that this is also true to a certain extent for BG, although not as obvious as in most of IWD. In terms of quality I'm not saying that IWD's story is great, but for a hack'n slash game it does have a decent plot, which I can't say for BG if you view it as the epic it wants to be.

 

My fave - and I'll know I'll get flak for it - but, I'll say TOB is.

 

Whatever floats your boat. Fine with me. I just loved the atmosphere in TOTL and the haunted castle setting. Very moody and atmospheric indeed.

 

Don't give credit to Interplay/BIS for BIo's success. BIO is 100% responsible for their success and will be responsible 100% for any failures.

 

Yes, Bioware is mostly responsible for their success, but not alone. Interplay/BIS contributed to Bio's success, you'll have to admit that. That was the point I was trying to get across.

 

I don't. The IE art is virtually equal in my book.

 

Dialogue. The dialogue in IWD is better.

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"but for a hack'n slash game it does have a decent plot"

 

That's true. I've always said that about IWD.

 

 

"BG if you view it as the epic it wants to be."

 

Um.. All i gotta say is that there are very few 'epic games' that can come even close to the epicness of BG. Very few.. if any.

 

 

"I just loved the atmosphere in TOTL and the haunted castle setting. Very moody and atmospheric indeed."

 

Eh. So did I... for the whole 2 hours I played it. I'll take the 30 or so hours of Tb with great atmposhere, varied combat, heavy story advancement and role-playing than a one dimsensional mod of a castle. Just saying.

 

 

"Yes, Bioware is mostly responsible for their success, but not alone. Interplay/BIS contributed to Bio's success, you'll have to admit that. That was the point I was trying to get across."

 

Nope, I don't. BIo is 100% responsible for what it does. Interplay/BIS contributed to its own success and failures.

 

 

"Dialogue. The dialogue in IWD is better."

 

No; but we'll just have to disagree on this.

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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I think the people spoke about their opinion on both games where it counts - their wallets.

 

You place one of the following in pushing games ' from the devloper of IWD' or 'from the developer of BG' and have the games be equal in every way and we'll say which one sells more.

 

I have a hunch - just a hunch, mind you, that my conclusion is shared witha  lot more people than not. Just a hunch; though. :thumbsup:

 

 

By this you, Volourn, automatically imply that, for example, Britney Spears is a better musician than Miles Davies or that Citizen Kane was a worse movie than Road Trip. Is this correct?

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"By this you, Volourn, automatically imply that, for example, Britney Spears is a better musician than Miles Davies or that Citizen Kane was a worse movie than Road Trip. Is this correct?"

 

Read the thread in its entirety then return then maybe you'll know the answer to your question. :rolleyes:

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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"Yes, Bioware is mostly responsible for their success, but not alone. Interplay/BIS contributed to Bio's success, you'll have to admit that. That was the point I was trying to get across."

 

Nope, I don't. BIo is 100% responsible for what it does. Interplay/BIS contributed to its own success and failures.

This is ridiculous Volourn. Of course Interplay is partly responsible for Bioware

Life is like a clam. Years of filtering crap then some bastard cracks you open and scrapes you into its damned mouth, end of story.

- Steven Erikson

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"Jeeze, I would hate to be a friend of yours Volourn."

 

My friends say the same thing!

Not surprising. :lol:

 

"Of course Interplay is partly responsible for Bioware

Life is like a clam. Years of filtering crap then some bastard cracks you open and scrapes you into its damned mouth, end of story.

- Steven Erikson

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To return somewhat to topic:

 

Baldur's Gate is a fine game and a landmark series in crpg's, but it did not do everything right--no game does. Hearing it extolled endlessly for it's perfection is tiresome. Unfortunately, there are Bioware fans just like there are Trekkies--beings worshipping at a shrine which they somehow feel gives them validation.

 

To say that Baldur's Gate did eveything better than IWD is partisan and inaccurate.

My early post in this thread was an attempt to get some positivity going for what I feel was a very under-rated game. I don't play very many games over twice, (let alone ten times or a hundred times ) and if I enjoy one more the second play though, I think it deserves a word of praise.

 

But why is it necessary for BG's prestige to have to put down IWD, it's developers, it's publishers, etc ad nauseum? Can't both games co-exist on their own merits?

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"Hearing it extolled endlessly for it's perfection is tiresome."

 

Never said Bg was pefect. i can list quite a few things I dislike about BG or wish were different.

 

 

"Can't both games co-exist on their own merits?"

 

Huh? They can, and they do. I've written many times in this very thread that I like IWD1.

 

WOWSERS!

 

I like Bg and IWD at the same time!

 

DOUBLE WOWSERS!!

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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"By Bioware choosing Obsidian"

 

Bioware didn't choose Obsidian. Atari, and LA did.

 

 

"You think what Interplay did for Bioware and what Bioware has done for Obsidian is not a gift?"

 

It wans't. It was a business decision. When people giving gifts it's not to get soemthing in return if it's an actual true gift.

 

If I give someone $5, for example, and I expect $10 back. That's not a gift. And, that's exactly what publishers do with developers.

 

 

"Also Bioware earned nothing when they got the license. A cool looking demo does not equate

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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there is very few things we liked better 'bout bg than iwd. were not a big fan of some of the donkey kong levels in dragon's eye, and a little less linearity woulda' been nice... and fergie went a little nuts with some o' his 1007, but for the most part, iwd were a far better product. better music. better art. better writing. etc.

 

however, we does think that iwd helped kill bis. iwd were a short development by a largely inexperienced team... and it were very successful. set up expectations that bis could produce similar products... get interplay more bang for less buck. also, when it came time to try and save bis bacon, iwd2 were the project fergie put forward.

 

*shrug*

 

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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