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I would have waited for a finished game


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I recently finished the game and for the most part I enjoyed it, but I have never played a game that clearly had so many loose ends when the story ended. It became very clear to me that the developers had a lot of good ideas for the overall story and subplots but unfortunately could not finish. I don't mean the entire subplot was cut from the game but rather those parts of the story would start but lacked resolution. I don't want to go into any spoilers here but I think most of you that finished the game had at least a few "Huh?" moments (I myself had about a half dozen). I'm a little confused, why would LA release a game they had to know wasn't ready? Money, right? The problem I have with that is that the first KotOR sold very well and made almost everybody's game of the year which means LA knew they already had a loyal fan base ready and willing to buy the game, a few months delay would not have hurt that (It wouldn't have bothered me anyway). Am I missing something?

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As most with most publishers, LA doesnt care about wether the games are complete or if they're even good. All that matters is that they keep budget, schedual and make money.

 

 

A few months extra would have cost LA more money so that clearly wasnt a possibility.

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"I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. "

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I suspect that the benefits of an early, holiday release will have outweighed, in monetary terms, the benefits of waiting for a more complete version a couple months down the line. And the fanbase are just a small portion of those sales. Really, what the hardcore fans think, and the forum nerds, seems a small thing, by comparison to the seasonal whimsy of the market.

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I know having production go beyond schedule and possibly overbudget is something the publishers would definitely want to avoid but you pay the price one way or another. Maybe you save a bit more money by rushing the product out the door but is it worth it to potentially alienate your customers? I guess I'm just looking at it from my personal point of view, as someone who works in a technical field I take a lot of pride in my work. My worst fear is to send something out the door that I was responsible for and it doesn't work and it has my name on it.

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I know having production go beyond schedule and possibly overbudget is something the publishers would definitely want to avoid but you pay the price one way or another. Maybe you save a bit more money by rushing the product out the door but is it worth it to potentially alienate your customers? I guess I'm just looking at it from my personal point of view, as someone who works in a technical field I take a lot of pride in my work. My worst fear is to send something out the door that I was responsible for and it doesn't work and it has my name on it.

 

Well, they have totally alienated me.

 

I was gonna get SWG and the expansions when i get the free cash to afford the subscriptions, but now, they stuff themselves. (i thought i would try it, but since lucasarts royally screwed us, they lost my support and faith, hell, i ain't even gonna get the next starwars movie)

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I was gonna get SWG and the expansions when i get the free cash to afford the subscriptions, but now, they stuff themselves. (i thought i would try it, but since lucasarts royally screwed us, they lost my support and faith, hell, i ain't even gonna get the next starwars movie)

SWG isnt worth the effort to read the package. Suffered through a few months playing it praying it would get better but to no avail. But in SWG's case its the developers that are killing the game off, not LA (surprise surprise)

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I might add that with LA, schedual is extra important as they time the releases of various SW based games, so that the customers wont loose interest, be overswamped in SW products amd will have saved up enough cash to buy the next in line.

 

K2 could not be allowed to coincide with "Republic Commando" for instance.

 

 

We know that quality is all that really matters, but publishers aswellas record companies are run by bussinessmen with no real understanding or interest in anything else than profit. Its quite insane when you think about it, but thats the way things are.

DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself.

 

Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture.

 

"I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. "

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I might add that with LA, schedual is extra important as they time the releases of various SW based games, so that the customers wont loose interest, be overswamped in SW products amd will have saved up enough cash to buy the next in line.

 

K2 could not be allowed to coincide with "Republic Commando" for instance.

 

 

We know that quality is all that really matters, but publishers aswellas record companies are run by bussinessmen with no real understanding or interest in anything else than profit. Its quite insane when you think about it, but thats the way things are.

 

Why?

 

Republic Commando sucked big time, i think i played pac-man more then that trash.

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As somebody else put it ... LucasArts uses the Star Wars license as a reason to print money.

 

I will NEVER AGAIN purchase another game with LucasArts name on the box. First Star Wars Fallacies and now this crap. Of course, Obsidian is partially to blame for agreeing to a release date FAR too aggressive.

 

Some day publishers and developers will learn that success is based on quality and POLISH, not the name/type/style/license -- look at Bioware.

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The sad thing is KOTOR was set up to be the xbox RPG. Which the xbox is lacking. But that would created a fan base willing to buy every new KOTOR game for decades. They should have made sure K2 and K3 where the best they could do. then they could get sloppy on one.

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Some day publishers and developers will learn that success is based on quality and POLISH, not the name/type/style/license -- look at Bioware.

 

Too bad, there are too many morons on the world to make this un-true...

 

Look at a new company (forgot name), made good and original games

MDK and such, which sell bad

They make a CRAP game based on The Matrix and it sells...

 

Original and good: Punished, low sells

Not original, very crappy, buggy and ugly looking, but with license: Loads of cash...

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I'm not trying to start a flame war here, but the issue of KotOR2's inadequacies comes down to LA pressuring Obsidian to have the X-Box version ready b4 Christmas. If it weren't for that, I am certain the game would have been far more polished for both versions. :p

 

 

 

I recently finished the game and for the most part I enjoyed it, but I have never played a game that clearly had so many loose ends when the story ended. It became very clear to me that the developers had a lot of good ideas for the overall story and subplots but unfortunately could not finish. I don't mean the entire subplot was cut from the game but rather those parts of the story would start but lacked resolution. I don't want to go into any spoilers here but I think most of you that finished the game had at least a few "Huh?" moments (I myself had about a half dozen). I'm a little confused, why would LA release a game they had to know wasn't ready? Money, right? The problem I have with that is that the first KotOR sold very well and made almost everybody's game of the year which means LA knew they already had a loyal fan base ready and willing to buy the game, a few months delay would not have hurt that (It wouldn't have bothered me anyway). Am I missing something?

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You seem to be under the impression that LA doesn't have any money...I don't think money is a problem. Apparently, they are of the opinion that the quality of the game can be less than stellar and people will still scramble to buy it...and they'd be right.

 

Considering how much better the game could have been if LA had allowed Obsidian polish it a bit more, (not to mention how much more money it might have made) I find the "money excuse" lame. :ph34r:

 

As most with most publishers, LA doesnt care about wether the games are complete or if they're even good. All that matters is that they keep budget, schedual and make money.

 

 

A few months extra would have cost LA more money so that clearly wasnt a possibility.

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  • 2 weeks later...
I would have waited for a finished game

 

Funny how people claim that they would have waited for a completed game, but they aren't willing to wait for a completed patch.

 

This isn't directed at you specifically, just a general observation of the people here.

 

We need to draw a distinction here between the decision to abort some subplots because of time constraints in the game and actual technical issues. The difference being that the technical issues are actual unintended bugs which require a patch, thats not what I was referring to. I was referring to storyline decsions, a patch would not help that. My original point was to discuss the decisions and reasoning of the publishers and developers and what they must think about our buying habits.

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correct me if i am wrong but were obsidian not given a 13 month deadline at the START, or was the deadline changed constantly coming closer to the release date?

 

cause if they were given the 13 month deadline at the start, they were either really confident they could get the game fully finished in that time, or they could have said " this is BS, we can't get a finished game done in that time"

 

cause if it was the former then their confidence was slightly misplaced

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There are sort of two sides to the thing. If storyline elements gets cut because the schedule was changed, both developer and publisher shares responsibility. It's only my own suspicions, but I do suspect that LA was hurting financially (why else cut their own in-house development) and offered a deal that was pretty irresistable (a carrot and stick combo, make a lot of bucks or we'll make your life miserable for a long time) if the game could ship for xmas instead of it's planned release date.

 

The entirely technical issues is the responsibility of the Publisher, because in this case they are the ones doing both the QA and the decision when it's ready to ship. Probably wouldn't have hurt to have a few more games trying different paths through the game and on a few more different hardware combos.

 

I still liked the game though, although in my replays I stop playing after

The Ravager.

 

“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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I still liked the game though, although in my replays I stop playing after

The Ravager.

 

 

Same here.

 

Although I did the same with KOTOR I, where I'd give up at the beginning of the Star Forge.

"Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque

"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)

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The Game is done ....

I think everyone (including the people who like the actual ending) would have been waiting 2 or 3 months more to get a better game but thats not the way it happened.

 

Obsidian tried their best imo. I am looking forward now - lets see what the TSL Restoration Team can restore.

And the XBox User? Bad luck .... :lol:

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I would have waited for a finished game

 

Funny how people claim that they would have waited for a completed game, but they aren't willing to wait for a completed patch.

 

This isn't directed at you specifically, just a general observation of the people here.

 

 

IMO,

 

The problem with Obsidian and 'The Patch' (like unto Monty Python saying 'The Grail') is that they don't involve people on a level of what's up and what's 'still yet to be done'.

 

Pedantic Mode On:

 

Ahhhehhheehhem! Is this thing on?

 

'Thesis Presentation On How To Do A Patch Right'.

 

1. Generate A Complaint LIST.

Which a player must 'read before contributing to' (answer a test at the end of 5-10 "who suggested X fix?" questions using bug complaints spaced throughout the text of the list)

 

2. Further 'moderate' that list via a Forum Volunteer to keep overlapping requests to a minimum and not hassle the devs for say a month after initial release (while people continue to find bugs).

 

3. Include a 'time-event code' key so that when junior gets his whacked programming 'event' he can pull up and INCLUDE THE NUMBERS for it (module X line YY) in his suggestion. Probably including platform specs.

 

4. At the end of the complaint gathering segment, have an 'orderathon' POLL in terms of which complaints most need fixing and which are less spectacularly bad. Top 10-20 are in, the others 'as we find the spare time'. Obviously, misspelling 'Onasi' should not be that big a deal to fix. Slow frame rates and clipping or ghosting of characters may be more involved.

 

5. Start To Fix These Specific Problems. Publishing a weekly or biweekly completion notification as to the extent of the fixes already made, including those which have to 'refixed again' thanks to something else being altered.

 

And then put out the patch when the PLAYER CHOSEN items are all done.

 

It's not like there's any secrets left. It's not like Obsidian is having to protect something proprietary in terms of risk of code or a lawsuit for 'faulty product'.

 

Not now.

 

You want to BE a 'loyal fanbase'? You support your local sheriff through thick and thin. You want to HAVE a 'fanatical following'? You _Be Honest_ about where you are on fixing things and what you're willing to do to get someplace better.

 

 

Stepping Off Soap Box- Saberist.

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I still liked the game though, although in my replays I stop playing after

The Ravager.

 

 

Same here.

 

Although I did the same with KOTOR I, where I'd give up at the beginning of the Star Forge.

 

I think what I'll do on my current playthrough is just increase my level/stats/HP to something ridiculous once I hit

The Ravager, as you say

, blast through without actually fighting any enemies and play the plot portions, such as they are. I mean, I actually like the

final encounter with Sion and Kreia

for the dialogue.

 

What I can't be bothered with is

fighting a hundred successive identical sith drones who have absolutely no chance whatsoever of even hitting me on Malachor

. Yeah, might as well make me sit there for half an hour hitting the attack button while bright lights flash across the screen. Exciting.

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