The Kreia Poll

[SteveThaiBinh 1]

Kreia was a really good character, easily the most memorable of the game. She was good on the merits of the writing, but (as has been said elsewhere) it was the voice acting that made her great. How can you even notice any inconsistencies, when each line is delivered with such conviction? I hope they paid Sara Kestelman really well.

 

To the writers of Kotor 3: Please don't misread Kreia's popularity as a desire to have her ghost return in the next game. Her journey is complete.

[Aegis 0]

This is pointless. No one can decide to sever themselves from the force. The game says it, everything we're told about the force in the movies, books and EU says it. You game dictated that it's possible but you need a catalyst, in the exile's case, this is Malachor. You are told that to survive such a thing, as a force sensitive at least, you must sever yourself from the force.

Equally pointless is showing an example of something that no one can emulate. For example, we'd be "better" if we had nightvision. That doesn't mean squat though, as no one can decide to evolve nightvision and it will only happen through freak accidents or manipulation, something which would without a doubt result in a lot of bad things as well. Before we see a human with nightvision, we won't think it's a realistic possibility either, but even if we do, it doesn't change anything.

[Zilod 0]

This is pointless. No one can decide to sever themselves from the force. The game says it, everything we're told about the force in the movies, books and EU says it. You game dictated that it's possible but you need a catalyst, in the exile's case, this is Malachor. You are told that to survive such a thing, as a force sensitive at least, you must sever yourself from the force.

Equally pointless is showing an example of something that no one can emulate. For example, we'd be "better" if we had nightvision. That doesn't mean squat though, as no one can decide to evolve nightvision and it will only happen through freak accidents or manipulation, something which would without a doubt result in a lot of bad things as well. Before we see a human with nightvision, we won't think it's a realistic possibility either, but even if we do, it doesn't change anything.

I don't think a catalyst is neede, i see it more as a process of enlightment, of improvement...

 

The history of mankind is full of mens that fought to break their limits and then of other that followed their example.

 

Is also full of misconceptions that where tought to be the truth and that where proved wrong.

 

Many religions tells of mens that become "full men" or "enlighted" (i try to stay general on purpose) and they propose these "mens" as example to follow.

 

 

still if is not possible for everyone to follow these examples ths doesn't mean that they where false or wrong, and this doesn't mean that we can't try to point to the path they show us.

[Aegis 0]

I don't think a catalyst is neede, i see it more as a process of enlightment, of improvement...

 

And which part of this applies to the exile? We are told that no one has managed to sever themselves from the force, not even those who tried to. We are also told that the exile had no intentions to sever himself from the force and he goes through the game thinking the council did it to him. I suppose it's possible that you could decide to sever yourself from the force, but if it is, it's outside the game, the official Star Wars story and even the rest of the EU. And even if it is, no one has a clue how to do it (unless you repeat the events at Malachor, as I've already said). It can't be all that easy considering there's only one who has managed it so far, which takes us back to square one with freak accidents.

 

Many religions tells of mens that become "full men" or "enlighted" (i try to stay general on purpose) and they propose these "mens" as example to follow.

 

Those people reached enlightenment in a way others can emulate, however. Buddha, for example, meditated (interesting fact; the tree he supposedly meditated under can be used to produce hallucinogenic drugs. Edit: On second thought, it might've been the flowers or plants around the tree. It was a while ago since I studied religion, but I do remember this sparked a fairly interesting debate. Heck, there's scientific studies comparing the effect of certain mushrooms to what numerous prophets in history, including Jesus, has described). He did something. The exile had something done to him.

On a similar note, religion generally encourage people to surrender to something greater. The exile example would be the exact opposite. Few religions (if any) tells you to defy whatever entity serves as God, and I can't imagine any of them telling you to sever yourself from it.

 

still if is not possible for everyone to follow these examples ths doesn't mean that they where false or wrong, and this doesn't mean that we can't try to point to the path they show us.

 

Ah, but who would care really? The jedi would deny it, the sith wouldn't want to give it up, and the rest would not care because they can't feel the force anyway.

You can declare that it's possible to live without religion, you'd get basically the same results. Some believers would deny it, other believers wouldn't want to give it up, others wouldn't care. Some might care, but it wouldn't matter as they would never manage to break away from religion anyway (assuming that the religion is true and that there is a God, of course, in the same way we assume that the force exist). At best, they'd be able to suppress it, like the people who give up the force but are still tied to it you are told about in the game.

[kaylord 0]

How can you even notice any inconsistencies, when each line is delivered with such conviction? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

LOL, that *has* to be the point!

 

Otherwise I couldn

[Aegis 0]

Meh... Worked for Nietzsche, didn't it?

 

But like Nietzsche, delivery aside, Kreia does have some valid points about morality. Nothing I didn't already know of course, but games are generally not very good at even that much. It was quite refreshing, although I don't necessarily agree with everything.

[kaylord 0]

LOL.

[The Great Phantom 0]

I will ignore the freakish coincidences going on in these forums, and cut right to the chase.

 

Kreia is insane. She is basing her actions on the self-destructive urge to destroy the Force, or all that feel it. This is what would have happened if the Echoes continued: Deafness to the Strong, Death to the Weak. Since everybody can feel the Force on one level or another, this would hurt everybody, except Nihilus and the Exile...

 

Who is good?

[kalimeeri 18]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Kreia is a wonderful character, and well done. It takes a while (playing cold) to realize that it isn't just your light side answers that make her mad, but both. She wants you to think gray, like Revan, but she doesn't just say 'do this, do that', she observes, then explains the lesson to be learned. She manipulates practically every event behind the scenes ... and I believe that she 'created' the end between you as well, as a final lesson, and her final gift.

 

Bottom line is that she has no desire to see the universe end. She loved Revan, admired him, was proud of having taught him. She saw him as the key to saving the galaxy, the exile as the way to save him--or in the worst case scenario, pick up where he left off.

 

But in order for you to be effective, she is willing to die, maybe even has to (force bond+experiencing 'betrayal'). Maybe she even wants to. At one point, she wasn't sure herself who would play the part of 'the betrayer, but if Atris did not, it was up to her. (Sadly, the choice of Atris fell by the wayside--it would have been great). So she embraces Darth Traya again.

 

Crafty, manipulative, definitely with a 'Sith' flavor, she makes a good villain ... yet not so much, I think. A bittersweet, memorable character, one you keeping thinking about long after the game is over.

[The Great Phantom 0]

Kreia is more of a Witch than a Lord, because she is not aiming for power, but the lack of...

[lezsolt 0]

Kreia is one of the most annyoing characters in the KOTOR series. I just hate her.

[Aegis 0]

If you actually can hate or love a character as a person, that's a sign of a well-designed character.

[Topaz Quasar 0]

[ShinIchiro 0]

I found Kreia to be a swing and miss also...

 

I just didn't like her for some reason...

 

I just couldn't see her as the...u know what... as it all seemed so sudden...

 

I just couldn't get into the game in general though...

[Aegis 0]

Me neither. The exile wasn't an easy person to roleplay. I hate these "you can make up a character any way you want, but only as long as you do it the way we assume you would" games. Either give me total freedom, or give me a character template (like Revan) and let me deal with their emotions and future instead of their history.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0 0]

Revan was so/so , the only interest I had in them was how they reflected on my character. How did my character come to terms with the things that they had done.

 

What I absolutely loathed about it was how you had to play dumb until the plot caught up. By planet II I not only knew what had happened but I had a ton of evidence as well and at that point I wanted to grill Bastila or Return to Dantooine and demand an explanation. The fact that you could do neither of those things until the plot would allow it just enhanced the feeling of being railroaded.

 

KOTOR II's background was clear enough to work around. In any character generation there is always a fixed point and 10 years of blank space left a lot to play around with. While there were one or two moments where I went eh ? it was still much less defined than KOTOR. Which you can consider a good thing or a bad thing , depending on how you like your games.

[Aegis 0]

Well, yeah, Revan was no work of art, but the character did provide me with something to work with, from which I could invent feelings (and the game can't really discredit it by limiting dialogue choices). The exile was completely hollow. I sort of assumed I'd be given a history to work with given all the hints, but it never came. So basically, I went through the entire game without a real character, emotions were not exactly in abundance, and I didn't even get a proper ending.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0 0]

Well, yeah, Revan was no work of art, but the character did provide me with something to work with, from which I could invent feelings (and the game can't really discredit it by limiting dialogue choices). The exile was completely hollow. I sort of assumed I'd be given a history to work with given all the hints, but it never came. So basically, I went through the entire game without a real character, emotions were not exactly in abundance, and I didn't even get a proper ending.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thats the point of a game roleplaying you are supposed to add the feelings and the motivations.

 

You should give JRPGs a try, you get totally fleshed out characters , but because they have memories they do their own dialogue.

[Aegis 0]

Well obviously I'm supposed to give them feelings, but I expect something to react to. "I'm Revan? How shall I deal with this?" compared to "Oh, nothing happened and/or I have no idea what's going on... Ehm... Pazaak anyone?". It was kinda hard for me to find something to work with, especially on the romantic front, considering that I wouldn't have a clue there was anything romantic going on at all if it wasn't for a few cutscences that didn't even involve the PC.

[Kaldhore 0]

I think she is one of the most developed characters in an RPG and superbly voiced over. Another incredible British VA.

 

But In my opinion it would have been more interesting to have her as a non-usuable character. Staying on the ship to advice and counsel and send mind messages out to you. The story could easily have been scripted around that including the bit with hanhaar. It would have added to the mystery and made you think she was too fragile for battle.

 

Just my opinion.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0 0]

Well obviously I'm supposed to give them feelings, but I expect something to react to. "I'm Revan? How shall I deal with this?" compared to "Oh, nothing happened and/or I have no idea what's going on... Ehm... Pazaak anyone?". It was kinda hard for me to find something to work with, especially on the romantic front, considering that I wouldn't have a clue there was anything romantic going on at all if it wasn't for a few cutscences that didn't even involve the PC.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How did you manage before you found out you were Revan?

[Aegis 0]

Because I wasn't given a bunch of hints about a history that I eventually found out didn't exist, and the choices I had were not really based on that non-existing history. Then, when the visions came etc., I started suspecting things of course, but so did my character (though of course nowhere near as strongly as I personally did. I mean, would you have if you were in that position?).

[Leia Emperius 0]

After finally viewing the "Kreia's Fall" movie, I have a greater respect for the character. I cringed at what her fellow Sith Lords did to her, and where once I saw a manipulative witch, now I see someone just trying to regain the dignity that she lost and taking out her anger against both the Jedi and the Sith for what was done.

[ShinIchiro 0]

After finally viewing the "Kreia's Fall" movie, I have a greater respect for the character. I cringed at what her fellow Sith Lords did to her, and where once I saw a manipulative witch, now I see someone just trying to regain the dignity that she lost and taking out her anger against both the Jedi and the Sith for what was done.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

When'd u see that movie?

[ShadowPaladin V1.0 0]

Just talk to Kreia while she's meditating. Ask her what she is and dont take no for answer.