kumquatq3 Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 When the thread about the forum closing was made, I understood the reasons listed, tho I didn't nessasarily agree 100% with all of the reasons. Now I very much appreiciate the forums being left open, but I feel this new "more strict" moderation isn't doing exactly what you hope to accomplish. I understand that you don't like negitive press or responses (especially when it can effect your livelyhood), who does, but you will allow it (within reason). I appreciate that, but then wouldn't the mods be most effective dealing with the many threads in the K2 forum that are repeatedly posted on the same topic (more often than not a complaint of some sort)? I mean, there only needs to be one topic per legit complaint. Or even pruning spam out of serious discussion in the K2 forums. I don't think anyone can post a positive review in the K2 forums without someone flaming him or her. EXAMPLE EDIT: the mods have since edited the topic, but a poster said something along the lines of dragging the reviewer out and beating him with a bat to knock sense into him. It's just I've just noticed that there has been warnings being made about some of the topics disscussed in "Way Off-Topic". They havn't been because of foul language in a family forum or anything of that nature, but due to discussion (or in reality, the joking around with) political topics. I know the mods do this because they have been instructed to in some way, so I'm not blaming them, or anyone for that matter. I think there just has been a mix up in the clarification of what you actually want. Now, I've been in this forum since the start and have been involved in ALOT of political and religious, all very heated. The key thing is, most (if any) didn't need any moderation, much less closing. Passion about a topic doesn't mean there is something wrong. We have shown we can handle adult topics like adults and until someone proves otherwise, I think we should be able to "run on a lead" in "Way off-topic", so to speak. After all, I don't think political disscussion on these boards is why you considered closing them. That being said, I think most of us would appreciate a little extra breathing room in "Way off-topic" for good natured kidding around as well. As you can see "serious" topics mostly stay serious (The Lost topic, my book topic, political and religious, many a sports topic, etc.)and have stated on topic with no moderation. There is a little kidding around in every topic, but I doubt anyone gets many complaints (if any) about it. Just look at the "Lost" topic, it has been going strong for months, even if it gets side-tracked for a few posts now and then. We do a fairly good job self regulating in general, especially when a discussion gets going. When it comes to a "light" topics in "Way off-topic", unless it gets crued, I think everyone would appreciate mods looking the other way. I don't think our recent "Kumquat vs. chimp" topic hurt anyone and everyone involved had a laugh (and look, we even had a little bit of serious discussion ...kinda ). All and all, I hope you can see my point about "Way off-topic" and address our mods (who we need to thank more for dealing with the real problems) accordingly. Way off-topic is mostly filled with "regulars", those people who were around for all those weekend programmer posts. Most of us have said our peace about K2, positive or negative, and don't really discuss it as being "good or bad" anymore so much as what we would like to see done better in the future and what we enjoyed. I don't think these are the people you need to look after. If you don't see it as I do, I hope you will take the time to discuss this further. Thanks (sorry in advance for the many typos I am sure exist in this post) P.S. I think a community manager will ultimately prove to be a waste of your time and money, especially going forward. We didn't need one before and K2 discussion is easying down, as evident by the increasing K3 threads . Tho I think you might secretly :ph34r: agree with me on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darque Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 I have a feeling I need to quit posting for a while until the mods figure out the new flow... I seem to be making too many "closable" posts of late. <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumquatq3 Posted March 9, 2005 Author Share Posted March 9, 2005 might be splitting hairs here, but maybe we can get a single NWN2 forum for all disscussion about the game that happens here too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguars4ever Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 I'm 100% behind you on this kumquatq. The relatively stringent moderation in "Way Off Topic" is diluting Obsidian's efforts, when the main problem needs to be eradicated from the K2 foras. If the stability of this board is endangered, then one prioritizes. You don't focus your scrutiny on a pinprick when the "heart" of this forum has been holed with a blaster bolt. ----- I seem to be making too many "closable" posts of late. <_< <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think our friendly neighborhood jaggy may have had a hand in that, Miss Darque. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
213374U Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 The relatively stringent moderation in "Way Off Topic" is diluting Obsidian's efforts, when the main problem needs to be eradicated from the K2 foras. If the stability of this board is endangered, then one prioritizes. You don't focus your scrutiny on a pinprick when the "heart" of this forum has been holed with a blaster bolt. Heh. Well, It's really no wonder. WOT is much easier to moderate than that spam-jungle that are the K2 boards. I know I would be afraid if I had to go moderate there everytime I logged in. :ph34r: - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguars4ever Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Then it's settled. Number Man and Lady Darque (the two best candidates IMHO), will be the new K2 Moderators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirottu Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 I'm 100% behind you on this kumquatq. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ha! I This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 "Number Man and Lady Darque (the two best candidates IMHO), will be the new K2 Moderators." I should be mod. I;m hated now; but I can be loathed too. Seriosuly, I would make this board loved by all. Anyways, even more seriously, the mods should just lock things if they break the rules. Simple as that. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaftan Barlast Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 I just PM'd Phosphor about this whole issue of locking topics and I think that is the least preferable of options. Deleting separate posts or editing out offensive content is far better. It just takes one troll to get an otherwise good thread locked. DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumquatq3 Posted March 9, 2005 Author Share Posted March 9, 2005 I just PM'd Phosphor about this whole issue of locking topics It's not the mods call nessasarily, hence why I'm trying to plead my case to the man who makes the call. Also, post your thoughts here rather than PMing, as I would think it would serve everyone better to get your thoughts into the open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Di Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 I'd be in favor of having posts edited/deleted to remove material that violates rules rather than closing down entire threads. At the moment, a single individual can run from thread to thread posting offensive garbage and personal attack, thereby effectively shutting down legitimate discussion and having the power trip of controlling the forum. Meanwhile, the nastiness remains on the screen for all to see, even though the thread has been shut down. So the troll wins on all counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 That's a good point. They should probably stick to removing the posts unless it's en masse 'trolling' and ';flamin' then the thread can be locked down.... DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 when off-topic portions of message boards require more mod scrutiny than any other portion of board, then they is no longer a benefit to obsidian. am recalling off-topic at black isle, and as much as some of you were sad to see those closed down, we do not doubt that the powers that be thought it were necessary. can off-topic be policed in less restrictive ways? sure... but that ain't the point... 'least not from obsidian perspective. when a very small and tangential aspect of these boards becomes a disproportionate drain on resources, then the obvious thing to do is kill'em. as of now, obsidian ain't killing the off-topic... but obsidian no doubt believes that they gotta do something to make off-topic less of a drain... so you all is being trained in a straightforward, albeit very crude manner. we not mind harsh moderation as long as it is applied in a fair and evenhanded manner... and heck, we not even mind if sections of board is shut down... as long as obsidian is honest in the way they do it. no explanation is better than bs. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumquatq3 Posted March 9, 2005 Author Share Posted March 9, 2005 can off-topic be policed in less restrictive ways? sure... but that ain't the point... 'least not from obsidian perspective. when a very small and tangential aspect of these boards becomes a disproportionate drain on resources, then the obvious thing to do is kill'em. as of now, obsidian ain't killing the off-topic... but obsidian no doubt believes that they gotta do something to make off-topic less of a drain... so you all is being trained in a straightforward, albeit very crude manner. but Off topic isn't, and has not been, the source of the drain. K2 forums have been. I think thats pretty clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 "I think thats pretty clear. " not really. you think it is clear 'cause you wish it to be clear. k2 is the primary source of bitterness and and frustration for obsidian 'cause they made a good game and they were getting so much negative feedback 'cause of it. that not mean that off-topic is okie dokie. *shrug* HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumquatq3 Posted March 9, 2005 Author Share Posted March 9, 2005 that not mean that off-topic is okie dokie. it doesn't mean that off-topic is a drain or a problem either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Di Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 I would not cry if Off Topic was totally eliminated, frankly. If history proves anything, it's that sooner or later this part of the forum will become a political maelstrom of hatred, divisiveness, insult and name-calling. Unless, of course, it is ruthlessly pruned when such obviously incidiary topics come up. Which will annoy those who enjoy political maelstroms of hatred, divisiveness, insult and name-calling! But heck, there are certainly enough other forums where we can post America is teh Sux! I think we should take a clue from what happened on the old BIS/Interplay boards, and let Obsidian keep their boards relatively clean of such stuff. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumquatq3 Posted March 9, 2005 Author Share Posted March 9, 2005 If history proves anything, it's that sooner or later this part of the forum will become a political maelstrom of hatred, divisiveness, insult and name-calling.... .....I think we should take a clue from what happened on the old BIS/Interplay boards, and let Obsidian keep their boards relatively clean of such stuff. Is "off topic" forums by their nature usually the hardest to manage? Yes Is that the case currently or in the past with these boards? No History is more or less bunk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
213374U Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 I should be mod. I;m hated now; but I can be loathed too. Seriosuly, I would make this board loved by all. Nothing personal, but you're just too random to be a good mod. And I'd rather not have the following become truth: My opinion is law. Yours is not. I win. You lose. Game over. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> " Is that the case currently or in the past with these boards? No Exactly. Preemptive strikes are nice and all but so far, WOT has been a rather quiet and civil place. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellester Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Is "off topic" forums by their nature usually the hardest to manage? Yes Is that the case currently or in the past with these boards? No <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree since the forums have opened wot have been very mild, especially when considering the old BIS and IPLY days of wot. I think the most heated arguments were when Product of the Cosmos used to pass off all his theories as truth, and he would get called on it. Even those never resulted in anything bad, as they all were kept on topic and none of them ever became personal or insult throwing. Anyway, I have yet to see wot become a trolling or flaming ground, as of yet. Life is like a clam. Years of filtering crap then some bastard cracks you open and scrapes you into its damned mouth, end of story. - Steven Erikson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 "Nothing personal, but you're just too random to be a good mod." Huh? I'm very predictable. Boringly predictable, in fact. "And I'd rather not have the following become truth:" O.o. "My opinion is law. Yours is not. I win. You lose. Game over." Um.. Me being or not being a mod won't change the factualness of that statement. Anyways, more seriosuly, I would make a great mod. I am the Perfect Mod tm. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
213374U Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 "My opinion is law. Yours is not. I win. You lose. Game over." Um.. Me being or not being a mod won't change the factualness of that statement. Sure. But your being a mod would add a new... meaning, if you will, to it. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weiser_Cain Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 I must admit I haven't read anything about this(not even the whole topic) but I do begin to wonder if I shouldn't divorce myself from the future works of obsidian if they won't let me speak freely about their games. I'm a customer not a cheerleader. Yaw devs, Yaw!!! ( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darque Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 It's not about cheerleading, it's about not attacking Obsidian, insulting it's employees, or trolling their forums. It's quite possible to CONSTRUCTIVELY criticize a game's flaws and to COMPLAIN without resorting to attacks, insults or trolling. anyone who can't do that without attacking, insulting or trolling needs to learn basic human interaction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguars4ever Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Post pruning? Thread deletions? Meh. Just ban the trolling tykes' ISP and be done with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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