RanZa Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 It would be a help if someone could tell me the story about why BIOWARE left? Then OBSIDIAN took over? To be frank... Kotor 2 feels so different from Kotor 1.... :::ADVISE TO OBSIDIAN::: I AM aware nothing can be changed now so i wont bother flaming Obsidian for designing a boring storyline (*oops* ) But i will state this: Please from now on... Make a storyline with AN ABUNDANCE OF TWISTS/BETRAYELS/ROMANCE!!!! Kotor 1 did this beautifully with Bastila (you can flirt/kiss! ) AAAANNNNDDDD then FINDING OUT YOUR REVAN!!!! OMG it was an incredible sensation Kotor 1... :D ... I was expecting/HOPING that i would experience the greatest twist eva in Kotor 2 but then i was suddenly crushed as i simply crushed my boring Master Kreia. Then flew away... Then that was it... I would have loved to have seen REVAN!!!!! IN PHYSICAL form.... not this simple "He is somewhere far away!" :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( I Miss Kotor 1.... I miss Revan BTW... just to leave on a positive note... (just finished venting my frustration) The gameplay for Kotor 2 is EXCELLENT!!!!!!!! :D :D 9/10 Gameplay 2/10 Story 4/10 Companions (paticulary GOTO) Thx for listening.... Cheers ! :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 KOTOR II is an altogether more subtle experience. You really have to pay attention to your companions and the world at large or you will remain forever clueless. Bioware have a tendancy for not only being extremely obvious but also illuminating the obvious with a big neon sign. Like having journal entries that tell you to talk to your companions when you gain another level. My advice. Unlearn what KOTOR taught you replay KOTOR II with another character and really pay attention to the story. I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orchomene Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 I can't understand why some people find the story in Kotor 2 is worse than in Kotor 1. In Kotor 1, it is so obvious, it reminds me some action movie where the villain says everything to the good guy. In Kotor 2, you have to look around to catch the story, it's a much better decision, I think. But of course, every people have their own thoughts about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 In Kotor 1, it is so obvious, it reminds me some action movie where the villain says everything to the good guy. In Kotor 2, you have to look around to catch the story, it's a much better decision, I think. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Probably answered your own question there I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RanZa Posted March 8, 2005 Author Share Posted March 8, 2005 Thanks for at some replies (still open for way more...) but i would also like to find out about the main question (before i set my flamer on)... Why did Bioware leave? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Thanks for at some replies (still open for way more...) but i would also like to find out about the main question (before i set my flamer on)... Why did Bioware leave? Cheers <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Too busy doing other things. Jade Empire for the Xbox , Dragon Age for the PC and an unknown probably next gen console title. I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybersquirt Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Does it really matter why BioWare "left"? Seems to me you're just waiting for the opportunity to flame Obsidian (there's a "war" that goes a long way back.) But this is just my opinion. I also hold the opinion that the storyline was far from boring - it just took a little work to get it. And it took playing it more than one way (light/dark). btw, as I understood it, TSL was in development in tandem with Kotor 1. So it stands to reason they never really "left". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryTarsier Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 it is evil i tell ya, evil! stole several 35 hrs of my life... evil!!! it so evil.... it gooooood... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janson Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 KotOR2 is altogether more subtle, complex, and much more rewarding in terms of replayability (I've already played it more times than the original) and in seeing the various threads come together. Evil was not so clear cut, and there were several difficult descisions to be made. So I whole-heartedly disagree with your sentiments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsel Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 I like KoTORII a whole lot better than KoTOR. The story is well crafted and intriguing. Mysteriously inter woven like a spider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegis Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 To my knowledge, Bioware decided that they didn't have time for KotOR2 within the timeframe LA wanted, so they recommended Obsidian for the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 "KOTOR II is an altogether more subtle experience." No, it isn't. It couldn't be any more obvious. Kreia: Look at me! I am your teacher; but you eventually have to fight me! Muahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegis Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Actually, I agree with that. I mean, that you were Revan in the first game was quite obvious, but I only strongly suspected it. In KotOR2, I more or less knew Kreia would turn evil when I left Telos. By the time the twist came, in KotOR1 I went "hmm". In KotOR2, I went "about bloody time". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janson Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Kreia being the end boss (which yes, was obvious) wasn't the whole of it, however. You had to find out who she was, what her motives were, why she was taking an interest in you, what her connection to Revan was. If you had enough influence/intelligence you could find out that she was Sith quite early on. But that wasn't what the story was about. It was more of a quest for the Exile to discover him/herself and to find out what had happened back on Malachor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanC9 Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Who says Kreia's evil? She's just trying to get you to do the right thing and destroy the Force forever (still not sure how that's supposed to work, though) As for the plots of the two games, I like them about the same -- a sequel should be less straightforward than the original Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Pretty much all obvious after the first couple of planets. Just talk to even one of the Masters and you pretty much got the entire jest of the game. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegis Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Kreia being the end boss (which yes, was obvious) wasn't the whole of it, however. You had to find out who she was, what her motives were, why she was taking an interest in you, what her connection to Revan was. If you had enough influence/intelligence you could find out that she was Sith quite early on. But that wasn't what the story was about. It was more of a quest for the Exile to discover him/herself and to find out what had happened back on Malachor. That's not how I saw it. The only thing the exile didn't know was how he was cut off from the force (and he thought he knew that until he was told he was wrong). For me, the game just filled me in on stuff that my character already knew, making the whole experience rather awkward and making the exile just float along in the story for no particular reason other than that someone told him to go here and there and do this or that. Who says Kreia's evil? She's just trying to get you to do the right thing and destroy the Force forever (still not sure how that's supposed to work, though) From what I recall, she was as sith as they get (despite the fact that she didn't like sith any more than jedi). The force is connected to everything in the universe. If I understood it correctly, to kill the force would mean most things would die and only those strong enough (like the exile) would survive. Sacrificing countless lives because you're not happy with being controlled by a destiny is pretty evil if you ask me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janson Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Pretty much all obvious after the first couple of planets. Just talk to even one of the Masters and you pretty much got the entire jest of the game. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But it's still more subtle than KotOR1. You have to talk to people and infer from what they say. I'm not saying it's difficult to work out; I'm simply comparing it to the first game which was really, 'Find the Star Map, get captured, BAM! You're Revan.' The second game doesn't have a big twist, and unfolds more gradually. And there's a lot of game before the 'first couple of planets.' You learn a bit from the HK droids on Peragus. You find out a bit more on board the Harbinger. You overhear what the Ithorians are saying on Telos. By the time you actually meet a Jedi master and ask them questions you've already played through about half the game. There are more layers to the story in KotOR2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalimeeri Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Thanks for at some replies (still open for way more...) but i would also like to find out about the main question (before i set my flamer on)... Why did Bioware leave? Cheers <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Immediately after finishing Kotor II, with many unanswered questions due to faulty memory, I had to go back and replay Kotor I. I find there are necessary differences in execution, probably because of the storyline. Kotor I has a dynamic that sweeps you along. What a great game! I'm not a total Star Wars geek, but this game brought ME back from wandering the Outer Rim. I still hate Taris, but once you get off, the hits just keep on coming. Will Mission NEVER shut up? Can I dump Juhani already? As far as HK's comment about whininess ... I honestly don't think the old crew had anything over this new one, though. Kotor II is a different type of quest ... an exploration of the mind. Far more subtle, and in some ways more thought-provoking, if you listen. That is not to say that it is better, or worse. The story dictated that the pace be slower; and it is up to K3 to tie it all together (hoping mightily here). The 'intended' story unearthed in the game folders just blows me away; I only wish that Obsidian had been able to implement it fully. But the game as is still compelled, right up to the end. Frankly, that's what I play games for--not mindless hack-n-slashing. For whatever reason that Bioware was not involved, Obsidian was a worthy successor; probably the only folks in the industry today whom I would have trusted to carry such a fantastic storyline. Yet even though I still respect what they were able to accomplish with an aging engine, and within the time constraints, it's with a bittersweet feeling that the finished product is not representative of their potential. Sadly, I feel it will haunt them unless some sort of redemption is forthcoming in a patch, an add-on, or in the form of K3. I want to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmen Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 The game isnt that bad but some worlds are pretty boring like Korbian Telos is ok since you have a lot of things to do, well the story compered to kotor i dont think it was posible to outdo the original but yes the ending lives a hole (you stay on malachor or fly off). The only thing we could do is to hope for a patch for graphic problems and see if Obsidian will finish atleast the planet thet was cut and the hk factory butt i really dont think they will. In the end i have to say that the game wasnt a wast of my money since the only game i have played more was kotor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 "Who says Kreia's evil? She's just trying to get you to do the right thing and destroy the Force forever (still not sure how that's supposed to work, though)" I'm gonna believe this is sarcasm. "But it's still more subtle than KotOR1." No, it isn't. Subtlety to me does NOT equal hitting the player over the head with ahammer, afetr all. it might to you; but not to me. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janson Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 So you actually really think that KotOR was less subtle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalimeeri Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 The only thing we could do is to hope for a patch for graphic problems and see if Obsidian will finish atleast the planet thet was cut and the hk factory butt i really dont think they will. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have to agree. But I would gladly suffer through Dantooine with my ATI Radeon ten times over for the sake of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 "So you actually really think that KotOR was less subtle?" Have I been so subtle you don't know the answer to that yet? Geez.. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 as to the original query 'bout why bio did not do... announced reason: bio didn't choose to do a kotor2 'cause they did not wish to work on licensed products anymore. we suspect that bio also saw what many of us fans noticed... that a kotor2 sequel would be problematic on multiple levels. much of kotor success were based on nostalgia, helped along by backlash following episode 1 and 2. folks liked the original sw flicks and they were disappointed with the new movies... so bioware cooked up stories and characters and plot points that were lifted directly from the original flicks. with the aid of lucas, bio were able to make the game look and sound kewl. little emphasis was placed on making combat challenging and the rules simply existed to make powerful jedi characters w/o real concern for balance n' such. again, the goal seemed to be kewlness. those who would choose to make a sequel to kotor would not have the advantages o' nostalgia in the same way bio did with kotor... that pony only does one trick, but if they chose to use the same engine the developer in question would be stuck with all the obvious disadvantages that came with it. no doubt bio saw what Gromnir did "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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