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don't call it "content patch",


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It does seem alot like everyone who owns an x-box would rather see a patch NOT released simply because they couldn't get it - thats a bit selfish isnt it?

 

Well, it is. Theres no call for it - x-box live will allow you to get the majority of changes anyway. As for it not being universal, its wide spread enough. I actually dont know anyone with an xbox that doesnt have live atm.

But you know, once apon a time the internet wasnt wide spread either - we didnt complain if a patch was released for a certain game online but never made it on to a demo disc for the rest of us - fair play to the people that got it, they had the means to get it so they deserve to get it.

 

This whole don't patch it leave it alone from the xbox scene is disgusting. Go back simply a few years. What you are doing now would be exactally the same as kicking up a fuss then when they started releasing dvd's with deleted scenes included as a bonus for people who bought the dvd version - you could go around saying no dont include the stuff you cut! Not everyone has a dvd player you know, some of us still have VHS!!

 

Thats effectivly what you are doing now, except place dvd with PC and vhs with xbox.

 

I hope they release it and then also put it through live. This might make a few extra people bother to throw a cable between their xbox and network (or wireless adapter) and as such live will expand, it will become more universal, because of that the next game out may recive the same treatment causing a bigger user base and etc the circle goes on and things move forward.

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It does seem alot like everyone who owns an x-box would rather see a patch NOT released simply because they couldn't get it - thats a bit selfish isnt it?

 

Well, it is.  Theres no call for it - x-box live will allow you to get the majority of changes anyway.  As for it not being universal, its wide spread enough.  I actually dont know anyone with an xbox that doesnt have live atm. 

But you know, once apon a time the internet wasnt wide spread either - we didnt complain if a patch was released for a certain game online but never made it on to a demo disc for the rest of us - fair play to the people that got it, they had the means to get it so they deserve to get it.

 

This whole don't patch it leave it alone from the xbox scene is disgusting.  Go back simply a few years.  What you are doing now would be exactally the same as kicking up a fuss then when they started releasing dvd's with deleted scenes included as a bonus for people who bought the dvd version - you could go around saying no dont include the stuff you cut!  Not everyone has a dvd player you know, some of us still have VHS!!

 

Thats effectivly what you are doing now, except place dvd with PC and vhs with xbox.

 

I hope they release it and then also put it through live.  This might make a few extra people bother to throw a cable between their xbox and network (or wireless adapter) and as such live will expand, it will become more universal, because of that the next game out may recive the same treatment causing a bigger user base and etc the circle goes on and things move forward.

 

No, it's only selfish if they want to deprive people of bug fixing.

 

Not if the game isnt live compatible and MS dosnt allow live to be used for "fixes".

 

Not the same. If you buy a normal DvD with the knowledge that an extended addition is coming out later, you cant complain. If you bought one and then they released an extended one a month on with no notice people would be upset and rightly so.

 

It's made clear from the start the DvD will have bonus material, its not that same thing.

 

Both games should have equal "content". If you cant do it for both it should not be done.

I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

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Games are always further worked on when it comes to the PC - that is the benifit you have EARNED if you have put enough effort and money into a machine that can run a 500 meter sprint with todays modern games. You get to play them as they are released and then enjoy all the things you can do to games with a pc that you cant with a

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Games are always further worked on when it comes to the PC - that is the benifit you have EARNED if you have put enough effort and money into a machine that can run a 500 meter sprint with todays modern games.  You get to play them as they are released and then enjoy all the things you can do to games with a pc that you cant with a
I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

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The only reason games are further worked on, on the PC is because they are invariably buggy on release. Thats not a postive , thats a negative. 

 

The only reason? Right, well, one supposes all the developers who've added content to their PC releases post-release (e.g., Trials of the Luremaster) in patches are just our imagination. Never existed. Only make believe. Have it your way.

 

No equality is not selfish, preferencial treatment is.

 

So we have one release which it is technically possible to patch, and one release which it is not technically possible to patch. By your logic, patching the one which it is possible to patch (the PC release) and not the one it is impossible to patch (the non-Live-enabled Xbox release) is preferential treatment? Are all decisions in favour of the possible over the impossible preferential treatment? If so, then indeed, I too favour the possible over the impossible.

 

Well do it yourselves then. That way Obsidian is obsolved of the whole thing.

 

The reasons a content patch by Obsidian would be infinitely more viable than a fan content patch should be immediately obvious to you. If they are not, I don't see that anyone should need to explain them to you.

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Little to be gained beyond tech patches?

 

Have you never enjoyed a story line enough to be longing for a sequel or to the point where you crawl the web in search of well written fanfic to read so that you can enjoy the story further? Or maybe wanted to write your own? The point of content is to make you play more, the more detailed and indepth the content the more you get dragged into the game and the more you ultimatly lust for its sequel. Content is VITAL to RPG type games where the main selling point for most people is the plot, story and envirment. the more detailed it is the more submerged they can become and its usually what each rpg gamer is looking for.

In that light there is a huge amount to be gained from a content patch, maybe more so than a technical patch.

 

Amusingly, PC games are rarely this buggy on release due to the fact that there seems to be a thin line between console and pc devlopers and the console side (especially in sony's case) love little and fast. They gave birth to the dreaded 12month deadlines. With consoles like the xbox however this line is blurred, its a PC in a box anyway. There is a higher margin for error with computer devlopers however due to the vast range of different hardware to support or even different operating systems. When you devlope for a console you know its exact specs and hardware, its relativly easy compared (yes, speaking from experiance) so its not surprising you get some teething problems occasionally with a pc.

 

As for equality - you have to draw the line between equality and selfishness sometime and I personally think you over stepped it. You may not get a patch because the system you have chosen to purchess the game for may have no way to patch it. The system I have chosen CAN be patched and I expect to see that functionality used to the maximum, its what I pay 800 pounds for.

 

It would be an issue of equality IF your system was able and legal to patch and they still didnt give you a patch and only us. But you are UNABLE. Its not an unfair jab at you, its a matter of acheivability.

 

If a woman gets pregnant she is entitled to maternity leave from work for a large part of it and beyond. As a male there is very little circemstance I can claim the same thing under. This is not an equality issue - this is an issue of me being unable to become pregnant due to being a man.

 

Likewise, you not reciving a patch isnt because they hate you but because you CANT. Stop calling it equality, its not. As such you are being selfish in trying to restrict a pc users full functionality simply because your different machine does not support the same thing. Stop pulling this equality card as it is wrongly coined to start with, simply bloody stupid and untrue.

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The only reason?  Right, well, one supposes all the developers who've added content to their PC releases post-release (e.g., Trials of the Luremaster) in patches are just our imagination.  Never existed.  Only make believe.  Have it your way.

 

So we have one release which it is technically possible to patch, and one release which it is not technically possible to patch.  By your logic, patching the one which it is possible to patch (the PC release) and not the one it is impossible to patch (the non-Live-enabled Xbox release) is preferential treatment?  Are all decisions in favour of the possible over the impossible preferential treatment?  If so, then indeed, I too favour the possible over the impossible.

 

The reasons a content patch by Obsidian would be infinitely more viable than a fan content patch should be immediately obvious to you.  If they are not, I don't see that anyone should need to explain them to you.

 

I thought it was moot to point out cross platform. Guess not..

 

The only relevent question is does it need patching to be playable. If it dosnt then its not a requirement.

 

Of course it's obvious to me. But that dosnt mean I think they should do one rather than get on with something new. And no one has really shown any real benifits in doing one either, except that they want one.

 

Since you brought up TOL. Ok they did TOL , TOL was amazing. But IWDII still bombed so unless it was a case of having people "spare" with no projects to work on, then doing such things are of questionable value in the big picture.

I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

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Have you never enjoyed a story line enough to be longing for a sequel or to the point where you crawl the web in search of well written fanfic to read so that you can enjoy the story further?  Or maybe wanted to write your own?  The point of content is to make you play more, the more detailed and indepth the content the more you get dragged into the game and the more you ultimatly lust for its sequel.  Content is VITAL to RPG type games where the main selling point for most people is the plot, story and envirment.  the more detailed it is the more submerged they can become and its usually what each rpg gamer is looking for.

In that light there is a huge amount to be gained from a content patch, maybe more so than a technical patch.

 

Amusingly, PC games are rarely this buggy on release due to the fact that there seems to be a thin line between console and pc devlopers and the console side (especially in sony's case) love little and fast.  They gave birth to the dreaded 12month deadlines.  With consoles like the xbox however this line is blurred, its a PC in a box anyway.  There is a higher margin for error with computer devlopers however due to the vast range of different hardware to support or even different operating systems.  When you devlope for a console you know its exact specs and hardware, its relativly easy compared (yes, speaking from experiance) so its not surprising you get some teething problems occasionally with a pc.

 

As for equality - you have to draw the line between equality and selfishness sometime and I personally think you over stepped it.  You may not get a patch because the system you have chosen to purchess the game for may have no way to patch it.  The system I have chosen CAN be patched and I expect to see that functionality used to the maximum, its what I pay 800 pounds for.

 

It would be an issue of equality IF your system was able and legal to patch and they still didnt give you a patch and only us.  But you are UNABLE.  Its not an unfair jab at you, its a matter of acheivability. 

 

If a woman gets pregnant she is entitled to maternity leave from work for a large part of it and beyond.  As a male there is very little circemstance I can claim the same thing under.  This is not an equality issue - this is an issue of me being unable to become pregnant due to being a man.

 

Likewise, you not reciving a patch isnt because they hate you but because you CANT.  Stop calling it equality, its not.  As such you are being selfish in trying to restrict a pc users full functionality simply because your different machine does not support the same thing.  Stop pulling this equality card as it is wrongly coined to start with, simply bloody stupid and untrue.

 

Sure thats a gain for you. Where is that a gain for Obsidian ? Who is the one being selfish here ?

 

Really ? Well excuse me if I think your wrong. Go read any PC games bug board from HLII to Bloodlines. Even in the dim and distant past of FOII it was still more buggy than TSL.

 

The fact that you think because you paid 800 for you PC warrants you preferential treatment is what makes YOU the selfish one.

 

It is equality, both games shipped with the same story content. They are equal. If you change the story content they are no longer equal. Short of drawing a diagram you cant make it any more clear than that.

 

It's both not stupid or untrue. It simply shows the selfishness of your position. If you dont like that, well too bad because your position is one motivated purely by selfishness. Mine on the other hand wouldnt change regardless of which version of the game I owned.

I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

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But im NOT asking for prefable treatment, im asking for what can be done to be done to the maxium for EVERYONE. Thats complete treatment, not prefable. Its not my fault the PC has benifits like it does, but certainly I would like to cash in on them - as would you if you owned the PC kotor instead of the xbox version.

 

Imagine 2 different towns with different hospitols and one has better equipment. Should the more advanced hospitol not use half its equipment on its patients because the patients in the other, seperate, hospitol dont get it? No they shouldnt. Further more, I should hope that someone somewhere is happy that there is a place where patients are being treated as well as possiable. Its not the fault of the lesser hospitol that it doesnt have the equipment to deal with some of the stuff - they dont hate their patients, they are still doing their best with what they have. If a patient has a problem with this the only answer would be to travel a large distance to the other hospitol. Bringing the metaphor back to computer systems, that would be equivilent to people having a problem with their consoles lack of functionality buying a computer system to cash in on the ability for extensions and patches. What your doing is the equivilent of running up to the advanced hospitol and throwing a few fire bombs in the hope you destroy their more advanced equipment making their patients (read, PC players) less comfortable.

 

I DO agree with one line you threw in though. I would like to see what they have brought more to completion, ie bug fixed. But im all for a content patch and I hope those who have the ability to apply such thing enjoy it to its full.

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oh, and the benifit to obsidian is one of the most basic fundamental principles of buisness - reputation. It affects comunity interaction, fanbase and ultimatly sales and money.

 

People do get angry when their games are bugged and further more cut to hell (even though this was no fault of obsidian, and I still stand by the fact that they did a great job in only 12 months) - but they get more angry when absolutly nothing is done about it.

 

Companies who take an active interest in their community, fan ideas and requests and do their best to meet them (their best is all that can be asked, that means we dont get everything but we can live with that) gain a reputation for it and people start looking forward to their next games and products. Its good buisness practice if nothing else.

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oh, and the benifit to obsidian is one of the most basic fundamental principles of buisness - reputation.  It affects comunity interaction, fanbase and ultimatly sales and money.

 

That depends entirely on how you look at it. If you see Obsidian as a million seller company , then what happens here isnt worth diddly. Even if everyone signed up here didnt by KOTOR III, it would make little impact.

Fanbase is only important if you rely on them for you sales, which KOTOR II didnt since it was a mass market title.Fanbases of the forgiving kind are also useful for shifting blame to others. Troika fans following TOEE springs to mind. Equally fanbases can be a dam nuisence when your trying to do something new to an established franchise.

 

Publishers and liscenses are worth a heck of a lot more than fans in the real world. Those are the people you want to placate, not some screaming message board yahoo's.

I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

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Don't waste your time arguing with SP. He's biased because he would hate to see the "original" ending restored, and hence, logic won't convince him. However, some of his points make sense. MS wouldn't be happy with the PC version being upgraded, and that means LA won't risk pissing a major business partner over a trivial matter such as this one.

 

The logical thing to do would be to improve the versions that can be improved, by whatever means. That would leave a lesser net number of pissed customers, by whatever reasons.

If the Xboxers get the shaft, well sorry, but that's one of the risks you take when you favor console over PC gaming as things are today. But business strategy and logic aren't the same thing, so I think the actual chances of a "content patch" actually being approved are slim at best.

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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Don't waste your time arguing with SP. He's biased because he would hate to see the "original" ending restored, and hence, logic won't convince him. However, some of his points make sense. MS wouldn't be happy with the PC version being upgraded, and that means LA won't risk pissing a major business partner over a trivial matter such as this one.

 

You have such a unique way of agreeing with me.

I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

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Well, I'm not actually agreeing with you. At least that's what I think. :wacko:

I would actually like to see a content patch to fix some of the plotholes, don't really care much about the ending itself. But anyway. I understand the business reasons that will prevail over logic or customer satisfaction concerns, and I must admit, If I were running LA, I wouldn't give the thumbsup for a content patch either.

 

They really have very little to gain, but potentially a lot to lose.

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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... who will buy the sequel anyway, regardless of their threats.

 

Quite likely yes. Or at least have the sense to take a look at the new game before dismissing it. It's not like Xbox or PC owners can really be choosey when it comes to RPGS.

I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

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Well, I'm not actually agreeing with you. At least that's what I think. :wacko:

I would actually like to see a content patch to fix some of the plotholes, don't really care much about the ending itself. But anyway. I understand the business reasons that will prevail over logic or customer satisfaction concerns, and I must admit, If I were running LA, I wouldn't give the thumbsup for a content patch either.

 

They really have very little to gain, but potentially a lot to lose.

 

Maybe not for the same reasons exactly but the conclusion matches mine pretty much word for word.

 

By far the biggest mistake Obsidian made in my opinion was not cleaning up those extra files. Without those, all of this would have been nothing but speculations and died off. KOTOR had a bunch of stuff cut too, but it wasnt left behind for people to find so easily.

I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

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Quite likely yes. Or at least have the sense to take a look at the new game before dismissing it. It's not like Xbox or PC owners can really be choosey when it comes to RPGS.

For the same reason, I will probably go and see "Revenge of the Sith", despite the fact that I was immensely disappointed by Episodes 1 & 2 and swore to skip the 3rd. Anyway, given the "quality" of the revised DVD editions of the original SW movies, we should think hard before asking LA for a "content-patched" version of KOTOR 2's ending - they might actually make it worse :wacko:"

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By far the biggest mistake Obsidian made in my opinion was not cleaning up those extra files. Without those, all of this would have been nothing but speculations and died off. KOTOR had a bunch of stuff cut too, but it wasnt left behind for people to find so easily.

Well, for some reason I tend to associate the term "mistake" with sloppiness. And who is to say it actually wasn't a calculated move? :)

 

 

Anyway, given the "quality" of the revised DVD editions of the original SW movies, we should think hard before asking LA for a "content-patched" version of KOTOR 2's ending  - they might actually make it worse  :-"

:wacko:

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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For the same reason, I will probably go and see "Revenge of the Sith", despite the fact that I was immensely disappointed by Episodes 1 & 2 and swore to skip the 3rd. Anyway, given the "quality" of the revised DVD editions of the original SW movies, we should think hard before asking LA for a "content-patched" version of KOTOR 2's ending  - they might actually make it worse  :wacko:"

 

EP II made me cringe ... I'm not really looking forward to III , I'm going to watch it of course since I watched all the others, but I dont have any expectations of it either. Not that I had many after EPI and that awful EP II scene.

I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

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Well, for some reason I tend to associate the term "mistake" with sloppiness. And who is to say it actually wasn't a calculated move?  :)

 

:wacko:

 

If it was , then there isnt really any sort of gain to be made from it. If it was done without consent someone would find themselves on the unemployment line methinks.

 

That was exactly my reaction to the force ghost at the end of ROJ.

I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

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