A Jedi Eats, Shoots & Leaves

[Lemurmania]

I don't know if others have discussed this, but the level of punctuation and grammatical errors in the script of KOTOR II is pretty out-there. I don't have any examples in front of me, but there were quite a few mis-placed apostrophes, as well as a general confusion over when to use "I" versus "me."

 

Next time I play the game, I'll make a real attempt to write down some examples, but whoever wrote the script had a real problem with the overuse of "I". For instance, you'd be looked at like the freak you are if you said "Come with I," right? It's just plain wrong. You say, "Come with me" -- that's just proper English. But I remember Visas getting it wrong, as well as Kreia. (Maybe exposure to the Dark Side warps your grammar as well as your features?)

 

All of this got me to thinking about just how freaking cheap a proofer is to hire. I don't know about the relative expense of QA personnel, never having worked in the industry, but I know plenty of proofers. Give 'em eight bucks an hour and some free baseball hats and frisbees, and they're yours for life. Perhaps Obsidian should consider hiring one. Especially when they're creating story-based games, eh?

 

I know every writer likes to think his or her grammar is perfect, but having a full-time punctuation and grammar freak in the building can be a real boon. And it's not like they cost a lot ...

 

Oh well. Chalk another one up to Lack of Quality Control.

 

Speaking of which, I trust you've all read the Resident Cynic's column about how a QA deficit killed another RPG house composed of Fallout alums, right? Check it out if you haven't already.

[Tanuvein]

I don't know if others have discussed this, but the level of punctuation and grammatical errors in the script of KOTOR II is pretty out-there. I don't have any examples in front of me, but there were quite a few mis-placed apostrophes, as well as a general confusion over when to use "I" versus "me."

 

Next time I play the game, I'll make a real attempt to write down some examples, but whoever wrote the script had a real problem with the overuse of "I". For instance, you'd be looked at like the freak you are if you said "Come with I," right? It's just plain wrong. You say, "Come with me" --  that's just proper English. But I remember Visas getting it wrong, as well as Kreia. (Maybe exposure to the Dark Side warps your grammar as well as your features?)

 

All of this got me to thinking about just how freaking cheap a proofer is to hire. I don't know about the relative expense of QA personnel, never having worked in the industry, but I know plenty of proofers. Give 'em eight bucks an hour and some free baseball hats and frisbees, and they're yours for life. Perhaps Obsidian should consider hiring one. Especially when they're creating story-based games, eh?

 

I know every writer likes to think his or her grammar is perfect, but having a full-time punctuation and grammar freak in the building can be a real boon. And it's not like they cost a lot ...

 

Oh well. Chalk another one up to Lack of Quality Control.

 

Speaking of which, I trust you've all read the Resident Cynic's column about how a QA deficit killed another RPG house composed of Fallout alums, right? Check it out if you haven't already.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't recall this at all, though I didn't read the subtitles, only listened to the VAs, since they were so damn good.

[witchzenka]

I love the part where you can assure the Duros at the Czerka dock that you will be "discrete" with your inquiries.

*nerdy snicker*

[Philistine]

Yes, I noticed that too. But I think the standout for me was the "Bonus Mission: Vogga's Horde" - which of course had nothing to do with Vogga's (presumed, but he's a Hutt, therefore must be some sort of crime lord, right?) hordes of underlings, but rather with gaining access to his hoarded treasure. It just goes to show that a spell-checker, while nice, is no substitute for actual proofreading.

[Cona05]

in the end kreia says "so that you would become stronger than I."

 

that just annoyed me for some reason. "stronger than ME"

<_<

 

isnt that what it should be?

[Master Dahvernas]

in the end kreia says "so that you would become stronger than I."

 

that just annoyed me for some reason. "stronger than ME"

<_<

 

isnt that what it should be?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

"Me" is incorrect in this instance I believe.

 

Here is the test:

 

-"I am stronger than Kriea.

-"Kriea is stronger than I" -- Both of these sentences are grammatically correct.

 

Now...

 

-"Me is stronger than Kriea"

-"Kriea is stronger than me".

 

-- The first setence doesn't *sound* correct because it is not grammatically correct if I recall. The second one *sounds* correct, but it isn't because it is following the same rule as the first. Hence, both are incorrect.

 

The English language is a tricky thing.

 

I too noticed a ton of typos and other grammatical errors in the subtitles and quest logs as well. The one that jumped out at me the most is when you talk to the Jedi Master Zek (whatever his name is) on Nar Shaddaa. They actually wrote something like...

 

"... That is why the Jedi decided to disband and hide. I [sPACE] t's was our choice..."

 

That is just sloppy proofing any way you slice it.

[Tanuvein]

in the end kreia says "so that you would become stronger than I."

 

that just annoyed me for some reason. "stronger than ME"

<_<

 

isnt that what it should be?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

"Me" is incorrect in this instance I believe.

 

Here is the test:

 

-"I am stronger than Kriea.

-"Kriea is stronger than I" -- Both of these sentences are grammatically correct.

 

Now...

 

-"Me is stronger than Kriea"

-"Kriea is stronger than me".

 

-- The first setence doesn't *sound* correct because it is not grammatically correct if I recall. The second one *sounds* correct, but it isn't because it is following the same rule as the first. Hence, both are incorrect.

 

The English language is a tricky thing.

 

I too noticed a ton of typos and other grammatical errors in the subtitles and quest logs as well. The one that jumped out at me the most is when you talk to the Jedi Master Zek (whatever his name is) on Nar Shaddaa. They actually wrote something like...

 

"... That is why the Jedi decided to disband and hide. I [sPACE] t's was our choice..."

 

That is just sloppy proofing any way you slice it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This person is correct.

 

I didn't notice that there were so many typoes and that. I only read subtitles for the aliens, and didn't notice any there. Not that I was looking for any, either.

[OneWithStrange]

It's tragic, yes, but 'style' overrules the correct usage of the English language. That's nothing new.

 

-Ben

[Cerebus]

I love the part where you can assure the Duros at the Czerka dock that you will be "discrete" with your inquiries.

*nerdy snicker*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hmm, being a foreigner and all, I'm probably not qualified for advanced spelling discussions...

 

But my dictionary lists 'discrete' as well as 'discreet' (if you were reffering to the fact that the latter one is correct and the former not)

 

EDIT: "reffering" indeed... see, I told you

[Cerebus]

By the way... I didn't get this topic's title.

 

Eats, Shoots & Leaves?

What does that imply?

[T.A.M]

It's quite a famous book about punctuation.

[SteveThaiBinh]

"A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwhich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots into the air. "Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder. "I'm a panda," he says , at the door. "Look it up." The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation. "Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

(Lynne Truss, Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach To Punctuation )

 

You can hear the radio series that inspired the book, 'Cutting a Dash', with the Listen Again function at the BBC 7 website.

[Cerebus]

"Panda.  Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China.  Eats, shoots and leaves."

Aaaah! I get it. (Almost, that is: What are shoots? )

 

You can hear the radio series that inspired the book, 'Cutting a Dash', with the Listen Again function at the BBC 7 website.

Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out. Was that panda entry from a real guidebook or was it made-up?

[Janson]

It's an old joke which Lynne Truss re-used for her book.

 

Shoots are buds, young leaves, or other new growth on a plant.

[Lemurmania]

"Me" is incorrect in this instance I believe.

 

Here is the test:

 

-"I am stronger than Kriea.

-"Kriea is stronger than I" -- Both of these sentences are grammatically correct.

 

Now...

 

-"Me is stronger than Kriea"

-"Kriea is stronger than me".

 

-- The first setence doesn't *sound* correct because it is not grammatically correct if I recall. The second one *sounds* correct, but it isn't because it is following the same rule as the first. Hence, both are incorrect.

 

An easy way to envision this is to finish out the sentence. Kreia is stronger than I am. However, usage makes the rules in English, so it's not entirely wrong to say "Kreia is stronger than me," if only because that's the way most speakers would say it (even though you'd still be flat-out wrong saying "Kreia is tronger than me am.")

 

What got me was the places where the writers tried to sound formal, and just got it wrong. Hire a proofer -- they're cheap and mostly harmless. The grammar police are watching! And any videogame developer can tell you, nothing can sink an A-list title like the disapproval of grammar freaks.

[Cerebus]

Hey, we are talking about "galactic basic" here and should stick to the descriptive approach.

 

You mustn't apply the rules of English grammar to an ancient foreign language (probabl[l]y dead, too)

 

 

EDIT: Guess I should hire a proofer myself.

[Cerebus]

Perhaps I could persuade some socio-linguists to analyze the structure of Jedi-Master Fancy-Talk. There is no wrong grammar when you're in tune with the force. Grammar follows your lead.

 

"Here, between you... me... syntax... morphemes... everywhere!"

[BattleCookiee]

Don't know if there are many spelling-errors, only found this one (usually listening to the speech, as that is usually a lot different from the written text):

 

Kex (the Mandalorian) called Mandalore (speech) Manadlore (text) one time.

[Master Dahvernas]

An easy way to envision this is to finish out the sentence. Kreia is stronger than I am. However, usage makes the rules in English, so it's not entirely wrong to say "Kreia is stronger than me," if only because that's the way most speakers would say it (even though you'd still be flat-out wrong saying "Kreia is tronger than me am.")

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Exactly.

 

The English language is one that relies more on context than content.

 

This is why English, for non-native English speakers, is the hardest language on the planet to learn when they first learn it. Half of the stuff we say just isn't correct and relies more on inference and context than actual content as far as the written rules are concerned.

 

For example... "I got him to tell me where the Jedi Masters are", or "I got Goto in my party now".

 

This is grammatically incorret and should be, "I was able to get him to tell me where the Jedi Masters are" and "I [now] have Goto in my party".... But it's too formal and too long and hence, why we've adapted the use of inference and context to shorten the workload on our part is so ingrained in our vocabluaries and personalities.

[witchzenka]

Hmm, being a foreigner and all, I'm probably not qualified for advanced spelling discussions... 

 

But my dictionary lists 'discrete' as well as 'discreet' (if you were reffering to the fact that the latter one is correct and the former not)

 

EDIT: "reffering" indeed... see, I told you 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Discrete" is spelled correctly, but the meaning is quite wrong for the context. It means "seperate" - a cake is made up of several discrete ingredients.

You were assuring the Duros that you would be seperate in your inquiries.

("Seperate" is one of those words I always seem to spell wrong, so if I did here.... ignore it....LOL)

[nobones]

I don't know...

Maybe it's a glitch or sumthing with all the Grammar problems?

 

Either that, or Obsidian was too lazy to hire an editor, or their editor spoke german.

[Antagonist]

I don't know...

Maybe it's a glitch or sumthing with all the Grammar problems?

 

Either that, or Obsidian was too lazy to hire an editor, or their editor spoke german.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hey, what does THAT mean ?

 

As a non-native speaker I really appreciate formal english in games. It is a good method to improve your english if you are too lazy to read books about grammar. "

[Lemurmania]

As a non-native speaker I really appreciate formal english in games. It is a good method to improve your english if you are too lazy to read books about grammar.  "

I'm sure he meant no disrespect to Germans who speak fluent English.

 

And yeah, playing games would be a great way to learn a second language. I'm pretty sure I read a piece about that in a newspaper, a guy who changed all of his game settings to "French" just to see how much he could pick up from gaming.

 

Seems like a splendid idea.

 

In reply to an earlier post, nobody's suggesting they need an editor, but they should hire a proofreader. Full-time. If they're going to have novelistic ambtions with their games, they should have a novelist's rigor about commas, apostraphes and object/subject relationships. And like I said before, it's not as though proofers cost a lot ...

[Cerebus]

[And yeah, playing games would be a great way to learn a second language. I'm pretty sure I read a piece about that in a newspaper, a guy who changed all of his game settings to "French" just to see how much he could pick up from gaming.

 

Seems like a splendid idea.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Heh. I learned so much English by playing games... Ultima IV-VII alone were a major benefit to me. Of course, there are certain side effects, but I'm sure thou wouldst not notice them. I couldn't even point them out to thee myself, to be honest.

[SteveThaiBinh]

Heh. I learned so much English by playing games... Ultima IV-VII alone were a major benefit to me. Of course, there are certain side effects, but I'm sure thou wouldst not notice them. I couldn't even point them out to thee myself, to be honest.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I had a Morrowind-obsessed student in Latvia who was convinced that n'wah was a real word.