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A fourth Sith Lord...


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I don't know if Yuthara Ban was intended as a character for Kotor 1, but we do know that she had a lot to do with the planet Sleheyron, which was cut. I do know that there are three Jedi NPC's in Kotor 1. Bastila, Jolee and Juhani. A Sentinel, a Consular and a Guardian. Juhani, however, could be killed the moment you met her. That makes me think that the original Guardian character could have very likely have been everyone's favourite purple Twi'lek, Yuthara Ban. She sure as hell was more developed than Juhani. Not too mention, that way we'd have a balance. Bastila is the good Jedi NPC, Jolee the neutral, and Yuthara the evil one. Makes a lot more sense than having Juhani, and if it wasn't originally this way, it should have been.

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Not too mention, that way we'd have a balance. Bastila is the good Jedi NPC, Jolee the neutral, and Yuthara the evil one. Makes a lot more sense than having Juhani, and if it wasn't originally this way, it should have been.

Hmm, but don't forget that Juhani had been following a Dark Side path prior to her joining your party, and she continues to struggle with that choice throughout the course of the game; she would have fulfilled the requirement for an evil Jedi, from a certain point of view. :geek:

 

EDIT: And, I just remembered, of course Bastila turns to the Dark Side after her confrontation with Malak!

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Juhani's was a test, though. It was engineerd that way. Honestly, I think Juhani could be cut out as an NPC and left as nothing but a quest you have to do for the Jedi, and I wouldn't care. She was the one NPC character I couldn't stand.

 

And Bastila only turned much later in the game. I hardly think she counts as 'the darkside jedi', especially because if you play lightside, she wouldn't be on your team to begin with, and the story was originally written from the point of view of a lightside male.

 

About Traya, Atris, for a moment, WAS Darth Traya. Just on the receiving end on the thing she represented. That was, until the Exile showed up and kicked her ass.

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Originally Atris was gonna be Darth Traya and this is Atris as Darth Traya but I think it made more sense that Kreia was Darth Traya as through the game it's obvious she's a betrayer

 

when you listen to the cut bits where Atris fights your party rather than Kreia, the files are actually names "Kreia". Originally I just thought maybe that was the voice actress' unmixed voice (since I've never heard her before), but now that I know it is Atris, I'm starting think that she was gonna be the "Kreia" of the whole story - again, so much has been changed it's hard to know if anything hasn't changed.

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Kreia is good at manipulating, turning people against each other, casting doubts and suspects but (even with boosted stats) makes a poor endgame boss. Imagine "Return of the jedi" where Luke fights a duel against the emperor instead of Vader O_o.

 

Atris had all the potential to be an awesome end game boss: she had feelings for the exile, she felt betrayed in the first place by his/her decision to join Revan, she has become bitter, arrogant and vengeful. It's quite evident during the first meeting with her.

 

The fact that the same dialogues lines exists both for Atris and Kreia make me think that the end boss was picked up upon certain game conditions, probably the main character sex or his/her alignment

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Judging from how people have discovered audio and text files within the disc itself for scenes with Kreia and Atris in the role of "Darth Traya" on Malachor V, I'm kind of thinking that they were going to be the result of slightly alternate paths through the game, that somehow one of (or several of) the player's choices throughout the game was going to determine which of those two characters ended up being the one to be confronted on Malachor V.

 

That being said, I don't think I really agree with people when they say the ending would've been "so much better" had Atris been the final adversary instead of Kreia. It certianly would've been interesting and it would've been great if the two possibilities were actually both in the game, but if I had to choose one or the other, I would probably stick with Kreia filling the role of "Darth Traya", as it was in the released version of the game. Kreia was really a very interesting character and "villain" to me because she wasn't just an outright evil Sith Lord corrupted by the Dark Side of the Force and intent on slaughtering the Jedi and/or conquering the galaxy. She was interesting to me because she was more original than that, and because her intentions and motives were more original than that. I tend to find myself more interested in villains that have more to them than just "being evil and badass". A sympathetic side, or a tragic side, or an understandable side, or relatable motives, or whatever. Whereas Kreia truly seemed relatively "Neutral" and arguably wasn't very "evil" at all, Atris seemed like she had really basically just fallen to the Dark Side of the Force, and if that really was basically all there would've been to her character as "Darth Traya" on Malachor V, I probably would've still found Kreia a much more interesting final enemy. Then again, I do think, however, that if Atris' love/admiration for/of the Exile were brought into the picture on Malachor V, it could've allowed for some very interesting things and quite possibly even rival Kreia's relationship with the Exile at that point. But, of course, that would depend on how it was handled.

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@off topic

 

is it me, or was Kreia a pushover. my weapon master defeated her in 4 rounds (not including the lightsabers).

Might be you. My character was l.24-25 by the time she reached the academy at m5, and since she was 'alignment-neutral' and neither excessively force- nor sword- oriented getting past later half of the academy all way to the end on the 'hard' level was actually quite a challenge. Kreia herself was about an equal match, and those lightsabers of hers sent me running around, as it'd take just 3-4 hits to kill me.

 

On unrelated sidenote, that picture of eveel Atris made me think "omg, Willow's Bavmorda got cameo as easter egg" at first glance... :s

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I think the possiblities are that you were either supposed to face either Kriea OR Atris depending on your allignment and gender...

 

And or Kriea first and THEN Atris second regardless of gender or allignment.

 

The logic is that there is always and only two Sith -- Master and Apprentice. Atris would be Kriea (Darth Traya's) apprentice.

 

This works because regardless of what side you play, you would have to defeat Atris in the end to either save the galaxy for LS, or take her place at Kriea's side for (or just take Kriea's place if they intended you to completely kill her before facing Atris) DS.

 

---

 

Also... I wonder if the dialogue would have been (is) the same if you play as a female because it obvious the Exile (male) had a thing with Atris and that is why she (Atris) is both hurt and angry at your character because you "abandoned her" when you went to war with Revan if you are in fact a male.

 

I don't know if OE is brave enough... Ratings wise... To push a same-sex relationship IF Atris' dialogue doesn't change if you are a female (I've only played through as a male).

 

Juhani was also a Gay character... But it wasn't the focus of her character and is something you really had to dig for if you wanted to know this (her relationship with Bayala at the Enclave and of course she expresses her feelings for you atop the Temple before you face Malak).

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The logic is that there is always and only two Sith -- Master and Apprentice. Atris would be Kriea (Darth Traya's) apprentice.

No. That came later. In KotOR there are plenty of Sith. And I don't mean "Sith troopers", I mean real Sith.

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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The logic is that there is always and only two Sith -- Master and Apprentice. Atris would be Kriea (Darth Traya's) apprentice.

No. That came later. In KotOR there are plenty of Sith. And I don't mean "Sith troopers", I mean real Sith.

 

From a gampely mechanic it still would have worked because it is something the casual gamer can identify with (from the films) and the devs can use to justify facing BOTH of them if this was their original intent.

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From a gampely mechanic it still would have worked because it is something the casual gamer can identify with (from the films) and the devs can use to justify facing BOTH of them if this was their original intent.

But that would still contradict why there were so many Sith at one given time. Malak, Sion, Nihilus and Traya, without counting all the Sith masters under Malak's control.

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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Though it would have been cool to have either Atris *or* Kreia as the Sith Lord to battle at the end, I *never* liked the whole,

 

"Both are called Darth Traya" thing.

 

That's like saying that the next Sith Lord who's insidious and cunning must also be called Darth Sidious (not that there are any Sith Lords left after RotJ, but you know what I mean).

 

Call me a traditionalist, but I prefer two different Sith to have two different names.

 

Though, Kreia never reveals her Sith name until the end, so it could be assumed (in a playthrough where Atris is the Sith Lord and Kreia isn't) that Darth Traya wasn't Kreia's Sith name at all. Whereas in a playthrough where she is the Sith Lord, it was always her Sith name... if you get me....

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Atris and Kreia both got on my nerves. And Kreia alone did a weak end boss.

-------

 

 

Now imagine great hall, full of legions of sith enemies, bowing down to Traya, and at her sign marching to slay you, putting your 700 FP, +5 Force Regeneration, +10 Wisdom to work, FORCE STORMING the tens of bastards as they come screaming, throwing lighting and lasers at you! The tens become hundreds, your force shield is failing, your Power is draining as they cut you, but you bring Horror to them, you Crush the Marauders, you Kill the Sith Lords and their captains, you STORM them by the scores as they throw everything they've got to kneel you, as they break your disciples around you! The Walls of the hall crumble under the energies that you and your enemies unleashed! The dark, poisoned Force leaks the veins of decaying Malachor and makes its way to you, rotting the endless battalions as they fall on you, and find you hurling your last storms behind a ring of butchered corpses, fighting off their commander, Sion... The dark blood of the Force fuels you anew as Sion succumbes to your Crush grip.

 

 

The waves have stopped and a last wall of Sith Lords, Assasins and Marauders stand waiting for Traya's sign. They were all Revans' best captains, now Treya's. Your step beyond the corroding, fallen legion while black smoke tendrils feeds on its still blood. As the Guard takes breath to march on you, the one Storm you unleash burns their flesh to ashes.

 

 

Traya gulps and mumbles as your fingers drains the darkness out of her eyes. You savor the sound of her shattering bones, then let her fall into Malachor's pounding heart.

 

 

-------

 

 

ach yes. that would have been a glourious ending. could somebody please script that into a mod? :wacko: double time

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I doubt Kreia is still Darth Traya, i don't consider her a sith anymore, i think she put back her old cloak just for the final test of the Exile.

 

maybe i trust her too much, but many times she said she left that role

 

about that is very interesting what she say when she meet Atris

 

Atris calls her a sith and pretend to be the last jedi but Kreia says that they are just titles and not what they are.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I stand on the idea that according to your choices you would face with a different Traya.

 

In the original Kreia was Traya but it was seen that she would leave her role for the next Traya because, "there must always be a Darth Traya".

In a way the betrayal of Atris would have been more personalised for the Exile because she/he knew her before.

In the game Kreia "gives" the role of the Darth Traya to Atris on Telos just before the Exile's return. I'm not sure if she was supposed to defeat you, maybe it was that she defeated you but wasn't meant to kill you...yet...but on Malachor where the true strength would be visible. But Atris fails and as there has to be always a Darth Traya Kreia retakes that role to face you for the last time. :)

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