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The KOTOR community pulling a Carth?


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Looking at some of the various posts about how people feel about the KOTOR2 endgame, a lot of the comments seem a bit like Carth style whining as opposed to actual constructive criticism on what they would have done differently/prioritized in a similar time-crunch.

 

Especially funny are the posts about how people feel betrayed and will never trust Obsidian again. Which reminds me very much of a certain character who a certain droid makes fun of.

 

*Sigh*

 

Anyway, I truly hope that Lucasarts does listen to the fans and to the folks at Obs and lets them do a content patch. If that doesn't happen, then there's always community mods. Afterall, fans for games like Morrowind wound up creating artwork better than Bethesda's and made mods that inspired Bethsoft to make features in the expansions and in Oblivion that they would not have made otherwise.

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I have a question. Does the possibility of a content patch for K2 depend on LA letting Obsidian work on the game some more, or if Obsidian can afford to move workers from NWN2 (or something else) and still maintain their current rate of progress.

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I'd rather they focus on the doing something else.

 

Maybe you would. What exactly?

I'd rather see them finish the patch, so people can at least feel there is some support here. Many, many people are bummed about the ****ty ending and bugs. The missing or cut endings are just salt in the wounds for people who paid full price for the game.

 

This fiasco reminds me of Troika. I wonder if maybe Bioware did Kotor 2, maybe

the game would have been more complete?

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While I don't feel it as a personal injury that the game is in the state it is content-wise, I really do hope they take the time to restore some of the almost-complete stuff. I think the time needed is insignificant compared to a full project.

 

This fiasco reminds me of Troika.  I wonder if maybe Bioware did Kotor 2, maybe the game would have been more complete?

 

Probably. It would also probably have an entirely different mood and writing style, which is what I like most about this game.

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obsidian asked LA to let them do a content patch is what I read, and no word from LA as of a few days ago.

 

heh, BioWare got left out of the cold too when fans wanted more patches (after 1.03).

It's pretty hard for them to deny a patch, but I suggest Obsidian make sure they fix as many bugs as possible cos chances are (again, look at BioWare), they won't get another.

 

how people feel betrayed and will never trust Obsidian again

 

I may have lost some faith in Obsidian but never trusting them again is a bit far (were they being sarcastic?). I just won't trust 1 year games!

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The real irony here is that Lucas Arts caused an unfinished product. Its been almost thirty years since Star Wars was released, and George Lucas still screams and cries that his producers forced him to release his movie before he was done. Now, his own company does the very same thing, and he still has the unmitigated gaul to point the finger at others. Hypocrisy at its worse.

 

I didn't know they were actually considering a content patch. It would be in Obsidian's best interests to produce one, but I doubt Lucas will allow it. Not their style.

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Maybe you would. What exactly?

I'd rather see them finish the patch, so people can at least feel there is some support here. Many, many people are bummed about the ****ty ending and bugs. The missing or cut endings are just salt in the wounds for people who paid full price for the game.

 

This fiasco reminds me of Troika.  I wonder if maybe Bioware did Kotor 2, maybe

the game would have been more complete?

 

Let me point out that I dont mean that they should not patch the technical side of things. What I mean is they should not focus on a content patch unless it can be done cross platform.

 

Fix the bugs by all means. But unless you can have the same ending on both PC and Xbox leave well alone.

 

In 12 months ? I very much doubt that Bioware could pull it off let alone make it more complete.

I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

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Looking at some of the various posts about how people feel about the KOTOR2 endgame, a lot of the comments seem a bit like Carth style whining as opposed to actual constructive criticism on what they would have done differently/prioritized in a similar time-crunch.

 

Especially funny are the posts about how people feel betrayed and will never trust Obsidian again. Which reminds me very much of a certain character who a certain droid makes fun of.

 

*Sigh*

 

Anyway, I truly hope that Lucasarts does listen to the fans and to the folks at Obs and lets them do a content patch. If that doesn't happen, then there's always community mods. Afterall, fans for games like Morrowind wound up creating artwork better than Bethesda's and made mods that inspired Bethsoft to make features in the expansions and in Oblivion that they would not have made otherwise.

 

Heh, the joke is on us then :thumbsup:

 

I guess that there's little Carth in all of us, screaming to get out. Most of the time, we can keep him inside, but where treated "badly", the little Carth jumps over the wall start banthering.

"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
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"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
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It's kinda funny because after NwN I didnt trust Bioware to deliver a decent single player game either.Which was why I rented KOTOR when it first came out.

 

KOTOR II has it's flaws but any game that can motivate me to play it four times (KOTOR only once I only bought the game afterwards because I thought it deserved a sale) must be doing something right.

I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

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Of course Obsidian should, and will, produce a technical patch. I'd love to see a Kotor 2 expansion pack, too. But to all the potential problems that have been mentoned here, I'll add two:

 

My experience of expansion packs is that they're good at adding new weapons, items, monsters, combat areas etc; not so strong in adding depth to the story. Many of the people on this forum who are calling for an expansion pack are really hoping for more story, particularly a revised ending. The expense (and perhaps scheduling difficulty) of recalling the entire voice-acting cast could be a big problem.

 

The expansion pack will only be good if Obsidian really want to do it. Kotor 2 was clearly a 'labour of love' for many of those involved, or at least that's the impression I get when I play it. But these people have moved on to other projects, presumably with equal commitment. And if they've been getting abusive emails from so-called 'Kotor 2 fans', and maybe flak from LucasArts about their forums, their enthusiasm for doing an expansion pack may be limited.

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It's kinda funny because after NwN I didnt trust Bioware to deliver a decent single player game either.Which was why I rented KOTOR when it first came out.

 

I was in the same boat too after NWN was released. Other then a few good quests the main campaign was uninspiring.

 

I was hesitant to buy KOTOR at first, but when I did I didn't regret it. Similarly, Hordes of the Underdark was good enough to make up for the shortcomings of the official Neverwinter Nights campaign.

 

I think that Obsidian is going to pull a good job with NWN2.

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With Bioware, it's not such an issue of trust, since they have a very established pattern. HotU was far better than the OC, but was still extremely generic, and NWN, HotU, and KotOR all seem to have the same sort of basic and repetive design, and while KotOR was far more immersive, it was the same attempt at not being linear by creating 4 similar dungeons, zones, whatever, and allowing the player to simply mix up the order in which he visits them. That's still linear, it's just 4 lines instead of one, and it ultimately seriously undermines the potential for character in the world, and narrative in the overall game. With that sort of consistency, I think it's safe to guess generally what their next title'll be like.

 

With Obsidian, because they're new, it's a lot harder to say what their future products'll be, but I thought they did an excellent job making KotOR 2 more immersive and less generic, (not talking textures here :)" ), and so I'm much more excited about anything they make than anything Bioware will make now.

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... The expense (and perhaps scheduling difficulty) of recalling the entire voice-acting cast could be a big problem...

 

Maybe not that much since all the voice clips for the cut content has already been recorded, just not used. It's all there if you own a PC version of the game :D

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Well somebody's gotta have to cut the check, if any progress on either the patch or the fabled content update is to be made. I think Obsidian's working on contract per patch basis here, if there is no funds, due to LucasArts not consenting, there isn't going to be anything.

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Well somebody's gotta have to cut the check, if any progress on either the patch or the fabled content update is to be made. I think Obsidian's working on contract per patch basis here, if there is no funds, due to LucasArts not consenting, there isn't going to be anything.

 

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised of Obsidian made it without funding (though they'd need permission). The guys in charge were part of BI, and they did it for IWD II (and I personalyl thought Heart of Winter was worth thirty dollars! 10 hours of gameplay generally cost 50 for action games, and they get away with it) and made one of the best expansions EVER. Also, I may be wrong, but I'd imagine that they made more money with KotOR II than any two games they released before.

 

Does this mean they HAVE to spend their money to make the patch if LA doesn't pay them? HELL no. But does it mean they might? Well, they've shown that odd generous behavior before. I wouldn't do it if I was the team leader... but the people in charge there are nicer than I am.

 

Also, expansion backs easily can add a lot of new story. Look at Throne of Bhaal, by Black Isle. Excellent game that concludes the story to the saga.

 

Another fine example - look at Gothic II: Die Nacht des Raben (or not, since the expansion is only in German and most of you don't speak that, but I digress). It adds an entire set of new areas, almost doubling the size of hte original game which was heavy on exploration - it adds three new factions you can join, new magic, new items, and it completely changes the game mechancis in a few areas - almost making it a new game on the second play through.

 

Though, since I have Gothic II in English and Gothic II: Die Nacht des Raben in German, its pretty condusive to schitzophrenia when an NPC not only talks in two different languages, but in two different voices :wub:

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Actually, I wouldn't be surprised of Obsidian made it without funding (though they'd need permission). The guys in charge were part of BI, and they did it for IWD II (and I personalyl thought Heart of Winter was worth thirty dollars! 10 hours of gameplay generally cost 50 for action games, and they get away with it) and made one of the best expansions EVER. Also, I may be wrong, but I'd imagine that they made more money with KotOR II than any two games they released before.

 

So I'm not the only one who liked Heart of Winter. I was surprised when people complained about it. Sure, it was short, but it was a very cinematic campaign. Trials of the Luremaster was a fun, free, expansion set.

 

I don't think the question is whether or not Obsidian wants to do extra content for KOTOR2, as in the past Black Isle put quite a bit of effort into similar projects, but the question is will Lucasarts let them.

 

Anyways, let's tell our little Carths not to hate Revan, but Malak for frying Telos :blink:

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Actually, I wouldn't be surprised of Obsidian made it without funding (though they'd need permission). The guys in charge were part of BI, and they did it for IWD II (and I personalyl thought Heart of Winter was worth thirty dollars! 10 hours of gameplay generally cost 50 for action games, and they get away with it) and made one of the best expansions EVER. Also, I may be wrong, but I'd imagine that they made more money with KotOR II than any two games they released before.

 

So I'm not the only one who liked Heart of Winter. I was surprised when people complained about it. Sure, it was short, but it was a very cinematic campaign. Trials of the Luremaster was a fun, free, expansion set.

 

I don't think the question is whether or not Obsidian wants to do extra content for KOTOR2, as in the past Black Isle put quite a bit of effort into similar projects, but the question is will Lucasarts let them.

 

Anyways, let's tell our little Carths not to hate Revan, but Malak for frying Telos :blink:

 

I loved Heart of Winter. It added a different type of challenge to the gameplay and required new strategy. Plus, the story, as in other IWD, was good even in its brevity. The music, the cutscenes, the combat, the story... all top notch stuff. I was very happy with my purchase.

 

Of course, Trial of the Luremaster required a different style of play as well, a more intelligent one I'd say. This was also good, and I love it.

 

But still, I am thoroughly shocked people complained about HoW enough to get a free expansion.

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I think they should just patch up kotor 2, release and expantion pack for it that finishes the story of kotor 1/2 (ie the expantion would be kotor 3)and start kotor 4 with a completly new engine and stroy line, like the rebulding of the jedi. story line EX( Your on the plans of some unknown planet, fighting kraths with a light saber, then 10 mandalorein uncloke and start blasting you. you put up a force shield to no success you are gunned down where you stand. A ship starts to to shoot down all your enemys two hovering balls come out put a beam of light on you and transport you to the ship and the. the ship take off you took a blast to the head an have no memery of who you are. with the light saber on the planet you dont even know your a jedi intill you start to develp powers

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"but I thought they did an excellent job making KotOR 2 more immersive and less generic, (not talking textures here )"

 

That explains the 'Go Collect 4 Items' main plot in KOTOR2. R00fles!

 

As for the content patch. Obsidian shoudl throw the plan in the dumpster, and concentrate on learning from KOTOR2 to make their next games even better.

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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