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Just for the record, while I have posted my displeasure with the decisions that were made about the release, and the effect said decision had on the game, I did enjoy the game for what it was, and what it had. It was a good game, not a GREAT game.

 

Part of my reason for my postings on the "big subject" was that I hold in high regard the people at Obsidian who produced such quality in the past. I don't wish to see them start down a road of producing the same bland, unoriginal products that have a large enough presence in the gaming industry already.

 

I have my thoughts/ideas as to which company ultimately made the final call on releasing KoTOR II, but since I don't have proof of anything, I decided to cover the bases.

 

I am really hoping that I did not unwittingly contribute to the idea to shut down the forums, and i would HIGHLY encourage Feargus to think heavily on that decision. Speaking as one who is currently one of the closest things to a Community Manager for my own company, what Obsidian currently has with it's boards is something that money just CANNOT buy. Sure, there will be a ruckus of one size or another for a short period after you release a product, but it will die down soon enough, and be replaced by the constant hum of pleasant exchange between the people who really count, the real fans of your product, who wil far outlast the din of discontent.

 

Good call.

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*join us*...

"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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I will be very sad in the forums close. I can't in good conscience blame Obsidian. They are a very new, very small company just starting out... and forums are a major time (and money) investment.

 

I very much enjoyed these forums, though, more than most development forums. If Obsidian must close them down, then all I can do is thank them for all the enjoyment I've had while they were open and hope that the closure will give them the extra time/money they need.

 

Obsidian has the talent and potential to be a gaming powerhouse someday. Hopefully they'll reopen the forums when they are able.

 

Again, Obsidian, thank you for what you have given us.

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Actually the whole way this is being handled is reminiscent of what must of gone down when the ending was decided.

 

They made the wrong decision and went for the short-term solution. The same decision process that brought us the rushed ending is working here now.

 

Nothing has changed.

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Actually the whole way this is being handled is reminiscent of what must of gone down when the ending was decided.

 

They made the wrong decision and went for the short-term solution. The same decision process that brought us the rushed ending is working here now.

 

Nothing has changed.

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Actually the whole way this is being handled is reminiscent of what must of gone down when the ending was decided.

 

They made the wrong decision and went for the short-term solution. The same decision process that brought us the rushed ending is working here now.

 

Nothing has changed.

 

If you say so..

 

How many copies has KOTOR II sold ? How many people frequent this forum ?

 

If the "fans" are making the publisher look bad, that reflects on Obsidian. It is after all their board and they are ultimately responsible for it. Unruly boards can make publishers look elsewhere.

 

 

While closing the boards would mean the end of our hanging out. The effect on the company is pretty much negligable. Especially when the forthcoming game dosnt even have a forum here anyway.

I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

478327[/snapback]

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Actually the whole way this is being handled is reminiscent of what must of gone down when the ending was decided.

 

They made the wrong decision and went for the short-term solution. The same decision process that brought us the rushed ending is working here now.

 

Nothing has changed.

 

If you say so..

 

How many copies has KOTOR II sold ? How many people frequent this forum ?

 

If the "fans" are making the publisher look bad, that reflects on Obsidian. It is after all their board and they are ultimately responsible for it. Unruly boards can make publishers look elsewhere.

 

 

While closing the boards would mean the end of our hanging out. The effect on the company is pretty much negligable. Especially when the forthcoming game dosnt even have a forum here anyway.

 

Hmm good point.


 

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I must say that I agree with manitsbuggy. My experience with working for large companies is that they always look for the short term quick fix and never look at the long term or the bigger picture.

I have been critical of Obsidion but in the end I feel sorry for them. They watched kotor 2 turn into a shadow of what it could have been because of Lucasarts managements greed and stupidity. OE obviously must have take heat from LA because they left all of the cut ending stuff for us to find. If not for that there would not be petitions or numerous complaints about the games rushed and obviously unfinished condition.

In the end OE is just as much a victim of LA as we consumers are. I am still going to wait for kotor 2 to hit the bargain bin before I spend my money on it. I apologize to everyone at OE as you have shown that you have the will and the ability to put out an outstanding product, you guys just need to stay clear of publishers like LA who have shown that they care very little for the people who continue to put money in their pockets.

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This is the first messages board I ever joined, in the time I have been here I have joined a few others some dealing with Star wars and others that have nothing to do with it. But by far these are the best boards around! I guess I have just become accustomed to the general banter that goes on, on this board, where even someone with low posts has a voice and wont (at least not always) be trampled on just because they have a low post count.

 

I for one loved KOTOR: TSL, while I have voiced my opinion and concerns over certain aspects of the game since its release, I far preferred the story behind TSL over that of KOTOR (minus a few things that really if you followed my posts I don't need to mention at this time).

 

I loved the fact that the devs actually cared enough to answer the vast majority of our concerns prior to the release of the game and even took the time to consider our suggestions for things that we thought should be implemented into the game. One thing I really liked was the whole weekend developer thread that Akari stared and that a few of the other devs got in on to answer our questions way back in the fall of last year, as well as the threads that Mr. Avallone took the time to write about the various different parts of the game play which basically let us know what to expect in the game when it came out.

 

Now with all that being said, I can fully understand why the devs haven't posted a lot since the games release mainly due to the fact that they are VERY busy either with the patch that is coming out or with the development of NWN 2 which is going on at this time. I must say that I don't very much like the idea of these boards being closed since this is where I spend the vast majority of my internet time. But I do at least understand that these board cost money to operate and that any bad press being caused by either us posters or by the press directly affects OE and the way they interact with LA. What I would like is that OE would at least reconsider closing these boards even if it

"The only difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits!" - Albert Einstein.

 

"It's better to be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!"

 

"You can try to kill me, you'd fail!, but you can try!" - Revan.

 

"When you have exhausted all other possibilities whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth." - Sherlock Holmes (a.k.a. Sir Arthur Conan Dole)

 

"A lack of planning on your part, does not constitute an emergency on my part"

 

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Just a quick message to let you all know that I am reading the posts. And no I didn't just jump to the end and post this Hades. :devil:

 

Oh, and I will come out and say the one thing that iritates Obsidian employees the most is when we are referred to as BioJr, Bioboys, Bioleftovers, Biobitches or whatever fun little moniker has been thought up for the day. That's not a reason for us to close the board down, it's just one of the things that doesn't help get us pumped up about reading the forums every day.

 

Another random thought of mine (I'm pretty much dealing wtih sleep deprivation right now) is that it seems perfectly acceptable for people to call us names, but if we ever respond in kind then we would be the ones being childish or poor sports. Half the time I want to post "Sticks and Stones will break my bones, but why don't I just shove my fist down your throat."

 

I'm perfectly fine with criticism - just not the "YOU SUCK DONKEY BALLS OBSIDIAN, GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK BECAUSE WHILE I PLAYED YOUR GAME THREE TIMES ALL THE WAY THROUGH I THINK IT SUCKED!1 JUST LIKE YOU DO AND SO DOES YOUR MOM!11" variety.

 

If we were to keep the forums up, I would probably have the moderators become more strict about posts from trolls and give them more liberty in banning people.

Feargus Urquhart

CEO

Obsidian Entertainment, Inc.

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Hurray! Good luck with the kid. Im sorry about the darwin thing, but I do believe in Social Darwinism. It seems like your falling in that way.

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I for one would love posts where the developers acted like trolls! lol..

 

"oh yeah, well how many games have you made?? na-uh!!??" :D

Fortune favors the bald.

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Bio forums... eh. Watching the QA ninja zing idiots left and right was fun, but that was too big of a pool for me to jump into.

 

Lucas Arts forums...not even a question. If I wanted to converse with mental eight-year olds, I would be a elementary education major.

 

No, I think if these forums (the only forums I've stuck around for more than 5 posts on) closed I would just get more work done. That's the one upside, I guess.

 

Too bad, there's a lot of cool people here. I joined for instant notification of every new screenshot of TSL that went up. I stayed for the distinctive personalities, the discussion and speculation and the fact that (USUALLY) no one gets flamed unless they deserve it, regardless of post count.

 

I've learned a lot; it's been fun. :devil:

baby, take off your beret

everyone's a critic and most people are DJs

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I for one would love posts where the developers acted like trolls! lol..

 

"oh yeah, well how many games have you made?? na-uh!!??"  :D

 

Agreed! Man, would that ever be fun to read! :D

 

On topic, though: I don't post much here, but I definitely lurk here everyday. Personally, I think forums like this are a really really good thing. In my humble opinion leaving the boards open and either A) Electing more moderators or B) Allowing current moderators to be more strict(as Feargus said) would work best. I don't know if the decision to close the boards has already been made or what, but I think that with more active moderation the problems could be ironed out.

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Just a quick message to let you all know that I am reading the posts.  And no I didn't just jump to the end and post this Hades. :devil:

 

Oh, and I will come out and say the one thing that iritates Obsidian employees the most is when we are referred to as BioJr, Bioboys, Bioleftovers, Biobitches or whatever fun little moniker has been thought up for the day.  That's not a reason for us to close the board down, it's just one of the things that doesn't help get us pumped up about reading the forums every day. 

 

Another random thought of mine (I'm pretty much dealing wtih sleep deprivation right now) is that it seems perfectly acceptable for people to call us names, but if we ever respond in kind then we would be the ones being childish or poor sports.  Half the time I want to post "Sticks and Stones will break my bones, but why don't I just shove my fist down your throat."

 

I'm perfectly fine with criticism - just not the "YOU SUCK DONKEY BALLS OBSIDIAN, GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK BECAUSE WHILE I PLAYED YOUR GAME THREE TIMES ALL THE WAY THROUGH I THINK IT SUCKED!1 JUST LIKE YOU DO AND SO DOES YOUR MOM!11" variety.

 

If we were to keep the forums up, I would probably have the moderators become more strict about posts from trolls and give them more liberty in banning people.

Agrees. There are a few too many of those people and threads.

Another great idea by the people who brought you beer milkshakes!

 

"I don't see a problem...then again, SW isn't my life, so what do I know...." - some who makes 27.8 post per day on a SW forum!

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Just a quick message to let you all know that I am reading the posts.  And no I didn't just jump to the end and post this Hades. :devil:

 

Oh, and I will come out and say the one thing that iritates Obsidian employees the most is when we are referred to as BioJr, Bioboys, Bioleftovers, Biobitches or whatever fun little moniker has been thought up for the day.  That's not a reason for us to close the board down, it's just one of the things that doesn't help get us pumped up about reading the forums every day. 

 

Another random thought of mine (I'm pretty much dealing wtih sleep deprivation right now) is that it seems perfectly acceptable for people to call us names, but if we ever respond in kind then we would be the ones being childish or poor sports.  Half the time I want to post "Sticks and Stones will break my bones, but why don't I just shove my fist down your throat."

 

I'm perfectly fine with criticism - just not the "YOU SUCK DONKEY BALLS OBSIDIAN, GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK BECAUSE WHILE I PLAYED YOUR GAME THREE TIMES ALL THE WAY THROUGH I THINK IT SUCKED!1 JUST LIKE YOU DO AND SO DOES YOUR MOM!11" variety.

 

If we were to keep the forums up, I would probably have the moderators become more strict about posts from trolls and give them more liberty in banning people.

Well, that pretty much sums it up. These people are pissed, and with good reason. At least they are being honest and straightforward about it. Honestly, I didn't expect a reply in that tone from the company CEO. I only wish you would have not delayed posting this so much.

 

But I think it's a mistake to try and enforce whatever forum policies after announcing the boards are going to be shut down. Perhaps if the last paragraph had been the standard rule from the beginning, we wouldn't be having this conversation now.

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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Just a quick message to let you all know that I am reading the posts.  And no I didn't just jump to the end and post this Hades. :devil:

 

Oh, and I will come out and say the one thing that iritates Obsidian employees the most is when we are referred to as BioJr, Bioboys, Bioleftovers, Biobitches or whatever fun little moniker has been thought up for the day.  That's not a reason for us to close the board down, it's just one of the things that doesn't help get us pumped up about reading the forums every day. 

 

Another random thought of mine (I'm pretty much dealing wtih sleep deprivation right now) is that it seems perfectly acceptable for people to call us names, but if we ever respond in kind then we would be the ones being childish or poor sports.  Half the time I want to post "Sticks and Stones will break my bones, but why don't I just shove my fist down your throat."

 

I'm perfectly fine with criticism - just not the "YOU SUCK DONKEY BALLS OBSIDIAN, GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK BECAUSE WHILE I PLAYED YOUR GAME THREE TIMES ALL THE WAY THROUGH I THINK IT SUCKED!1 JUST LIKE YOU DO AND SO DOES YOUR MOM!11" variety.

 

If we were to keep the forums up, I would probably have the moderators become more strict about posts from trolls and give them more liberty in banning people.

 

 

That's a wonderful idea :)

 

So please, please keep these forums :)

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If we were to keep the forums up, I would probably have the moderators become more strict about posts from trolls and give them more liberty in banning people.

 

You can dooo it!

What if I wanted to kill the other bounty hunters but still have the Twi'leks chase me?

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Oh, and I will come out and say the one thing that iritates Obsidian employees the most is when we are referred to as BioJr, Bioboys, Bioleftovers, Biobitches or whatever fun little moniker has been thought up for the day.  That's not a reason for us to close the board down, it's just one of the things that doesn't help get us pumped up about reading the forums every day. 

 

Another random thought of mine (I'm pretty much dealing wtih sleep deprivation right now) is that it seems perfectly acceptable for people to call us names, but if we ever respond in kind then we would be the ones being childish or poor sports.  Half the time I want to post "Sticks and Stones will break my bones, but why don't I just shove my fist down your throat."

 

I'm perfectly fine with criticism - just not the "YOU SUCK DONKEY BALLS OBSIDIAN, GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK BECAUSE WHILE I PLAYED YOUR GAME THREE TIMES ALL THE WAY THROUGH I THINK IT SUCKED!1 JUST LIKE YOU DO AND SO DOES YOUR MOM!11" variety.

 

If we were to keep the forums up, I would probably have the moderators become more strict about posts from trolls and give them more liberty in banning people.

 

Didn't notice the biobitches thing, probably because I got sick of reading through threads with an initiator's post-count of 1 saying Obsidian sucks and didn't want to join in the flaming of the initiating poster after the second or third time, being that I hate redundancy in any form of correspondence.

 

As to the two posts about nonspecific insulting/namecalling instead of criticism I would have to say this: Remember that in most cases when this is seen, you are dealing with 12-15 year old children. It shouldn't be taken any more seriously than if you were to leave work early on friday, get stuck behind a schoolbus and all the kids in the back are flicking you off. Have I ever thought about getting out of my car at the light, bursting through the bus's door and raining sulfer and ash on these little bastards? Yes, but then I realize that not only do I not care, but if I was fifteen and locked in a prison (learning crap I usually remembered from when I had to learn the same damn thing the year before) all day without a choice I'd probably be doing the same thing to every car I saw-and I think I did until my friend got her license and I didn't have to ride a bus anymore.

 

As far as increased banning goes, I'm all for it, but the distinction between naturally sour, sardonic people who aren't being abrasive for abrasiveness sake (213374u :devil: ) and idiot brats who use a message board to say in safety and anonymity all the things that they wish they could say to that kid at lunch who brained them in the back of the head with a hackeysack, today(do teenagers still bring these to school?).

 

What I'm saying, essentially is that one shouldn't necessarily be banned for saying something along the lines of 'Obsidian should have known that LA has a reputation for poor QA testing and the fault of the bugginess is on both their heads; let's hope the patch clears most of this up, or I'll just keep asking for another one,' (which might not be something that a developer would necessarily want't to see) but should be banned for saying, 'U devs suck. U R cowards if U don't answer this: how come i can't bang the blind chick.'

 

Annoyance is bad, but censorship (limiting a free exchange of ideas) is worse.

 

Judging from your post you seem to understand the difference.

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