say it aint so, feargus

[Lifthransir Bane]

Oh, yeah. I'm not being ageist here and saying that teenagers are always wrong or always a-holes. It just seems that the percentages tend more that way as per message board posting vs. nonteenagers.

[Salsabettis]

Just a quick message to let you all know that I am reading the posts.  And no I didn't just jump to the end and post this Hades.

 

Oh, and I will come out and say the one thing that iritates Obsidian employees the most is when we are referred to as BioJr, Bioboys, Bioleftovers, Biobitches or whatever fun little moniker has been thought up for the day.  That's not a reason for us to close the board down, it's just one of the things that doesn't help get us pumped up about reading the forums every day. 

 

Another random thought of mine (I'm pretty much dealing wtih sleep deprivation right now) is that it seems perfectly acceptable for people to call us names, but if we ever respond in kind then we would be the ones being childish or poor sports.  Half the time I want to post "Sticks and Stones will break my bones, but why don't I just shove my fist down your throat."

 

I'm perfectly fine with criticism - just not the "YOU SUCK DONKEY BALLS OBSIDIAN, GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK BECAUSE WHILE I PLAYED YOUR GAME THREE TIMES ALL THE WAY THROUGH I THINK IT SUCKED!1 JUST LIKE YOU DO AND SO DOES YOUR MOM!11" variety.

 

If we were to keep the forums up, I would probably have the moderators become more strict about posts from trolls and give them more liberty in banning people.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Thanks for responding. These forums belong to OE and you are the Big Cheese, so you can do what you choose and if you feel it is a good thing for your company (which definately ranks above the wasted time so many people spend bickering here) then I say do it. BUT, I think you should also take a look at the number of people who joined the forums before and after you announced your projects. Also look how fast this community has grown. So many people have made this their main forum for discussion and whether or not they will admit it, they are loyal customers and will buy pretty much anything you guys develop.

 

ps. Shake the haters off.

[Rambutaan]

Just a quick message to let you all know that I am reading the posts.  And no I didn't just jump to the end and post this Hades.

 

Oh, and I will come out and say the one thing that iritates Obsidian employees the most is when we are referred to as BioJr, Bioboys, Bioleftovers, Biobitches or whatever fun little moniker has been thought up for the day.  That's not a reason for us to close the board down, it's just one of the things that doesn't help get us pumped up about reading the forums every day. 

 

Another random thought of mine (I'm pretty much dealing wtih sleep deprivation right now) is that it seems perfectly acceptable for people to call us names, but if we ever respond in kind then we would be the ones being childish or poor sports.  Half the time I want to post "Sticks and Stones will break my bones, but why don't I just shove my fist down your throat."

 

I'm perfectly fine with criticism - just not the "YOU SUCK DONKEY BALLS OBSIDIAN, GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK BECAUSE WHILE I PLAYED YOUR GAME THREE TIMES ALL THE WAY THROUGH I THINK IT SUCKED!1 JUST LIKE YOU DO AND SO DOES YOUR MOM!11" variety.

 

If we were to keep the forums up, I would probably have the moderators become more strict about posts from trolls and give them more liberty in banning people.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I reckon it's unfair for people to even compare Obsidian Entertainment to Bioware. True, they're using an engine originally developed by Bioware but, for example, Ion Storm, who developed Deus Ex, used the Unreal Tournament Engine to develop their game - however through clever tweaking of the engine and adding heaps of great narrative, Deus Ex ended up as a critically acclaimed game in its own right - and I think KOTOR 2 is like Deus Ex in that respect (unfortunately KOTOR 2 was shipped with several bugs and the game seemed a bit rushed, but the bugs are being fixed anyway ). Obsidian Entertainment has great potential and it's unfair to compare them as a "mini-Bioware"

 

Concerning name-calling, well, yeah it's childish for anyone to do that anyway :D (of course a lot of the people posting the derogatory remarks here probably *are* children anyway...). I don't think it's right for either the developers or the public to just insult each other in the crudest of fashions.

 

I'm all for moderators being more pro-active in getting rid of duplicate posts/flaming posts/irrelevant posts, although I do hope that some of the more well thought-out constructive criticisms don't get censored since sometimes the suggestions are good ones.

[Rambutaan]

lol Lifthransir I should've just waited for you to post and replied "What he said" :D. Damn.

[Lifthransir Bane]

lol Lifthransir I should've just waited for you to post and replied "What he said" :D. Damn.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Don't sweat it. Great minds...

[-Jinrai-]

To obsidian,

 

It's a shame if these forums get closed, this is the best place to discuss TSL. Info will always be available for those who ask. It's easy to just notice the complaints and whines and so on, but what about the good stuff this forum has? Look at the class comparison sticky for instance, a great example of what this forum has to offer at it's best. Also people have a lot of interesting and good conversations in this community, it would be waste to deny those because of random crap that people post.

 

The community is currently so large that the bad stuff just can't be avoided, but the situation will calm down, it always does. Nobody can continue to bitch forever, in time most of the out-of-line stuff will disappear (the people will).

The situation is right now the worst it can be and that may give you a reason to close these forums, but I'd still recommend you to reconsider and see how the things play out a little longer. Alas, I do not know the whole story and have no true knowledge of how things are from your point of view.

 

Also I would like to say that, like most people, I really liked TSL and I think it's a great game. It must not have been easy to to make a sequel to a game like Kotor. A job well done. Thank you, Obsidian.

 

As conclusion I'd like to say that most people would accept strict rules, if that would keep the forums alive. You do what you got to do and I respect your decision. After all, these forums effect your personal lives too.

[NeverwinterKnight]

If we were to keep the forums up, I would probably have the moderators become more strict about posts from trolls and give them more liberty in banning people.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i think its safe to say that i speak for many of the so-called regulars and those newcomers who come here for serious discussion (with the occasional goofiness), that this is exactly what we have been wanting.

 

i know ive personally pmed the mods about quite a few "troll-ish" posts and posters, but through no fault of their own, all they had the power to do was delete or close the thread and limit the persons posting priviledges, but could not actually ban the person.

[lovecraft]

I don't understand what the problem is. I realize I have not been here that long but this is one of the most well behaved boards that I have seen. You want to see Trolls try the gamefaqs forums.

What dissapoints me the most is witnessing what used to be a good source of quality games starting the inevitable transformation into the next Electronic Arts. I have played many Lucasarts games starting with Tie Fighter way back when and I have always loved every one of them. It really sucks to witness LA using EA/Vivendi style tactics of rushing game development and releasing unfinished/buggy games.

I believe it started with the release of Force Commander. I still remember how horrified I was when I started it up and heard the horrid techno remix of the Star Wars theme. I then tried playing and realized that this was a bad attempt at a real time strategy game. Now with the way they mangled Kotor 2 for the sake of profit I have lost all faith in LA to deliver the quality that they have in the past.

It really must suck to be stuck in the middle the way Obsidian is. They have the almighty giant LA ready to stomp them if they make any remarks about the state of Kotor 2 and the deleted material and they have the fans asking for them to complete the game the way they originally intended but they can't do that unless LA admits that they chopped up and rushed the game out for the holiday season and we all know that is not going to happen anytime soon.

In the end I believe that this is a battle we simply cannot win.

[manitsbuggy]

(Feargus Urquhart )

Just a quick message to let you all know that I am reading the posts. And no I didn't just jump to the end and post this Hades.

 

Help us to help you. We wouldn

[Toreyn]

I really hope these forums stay open. The level of discourse here is vastly superior to the LucasArts forums - the trolls derail the threads there before they even get started. THIS is the place we have for intelligent discussion about this game. Yes, it would be great to have more response from the devs, but I think we all understand the constraints on that. And the responses we HAVE gotten have been enormously heartening. I have learned that Obsidian (A) cares about the integrity of the story line within the Star Wars universe, (B) cares about our concerns with the unfinished content, especially of the end-game, and would do a content patch if they can, and © care enough about their customers to put up with all our ranting. :D

 

PLEASE keep the forums open!

[Yst]

Well, a few thoughts.

 

As the current administrator of a fairly high traffic PHPBB elsewhere, and a long-time message board and, previously, Usenet whore (with >10,000 posts on a few different boards at this point), I've got to say that I think fully empowering prominent community members to maintain order in the community makes perfectly good sense.

 

Inevitably, there are always people who complain about moderation when moderation is essentially controlled by members of the community itself - hell, there are always people who complain about moderation regardless - but it's presumably the best solution here.

 

I've found that boards whose moderation is directly controlled by paid employees or a selection of employees are often more chaotically problematic, simply because the board gets an anti-establishment mentality subject to which problematic moderation is consistently blamed on the company itself. A fan-maintained, fan-moderated community redirects antagonism away from the development house itself, even if it merely redirects it at members of the community (antagonism will be directed somewhere, it's just a matter of where) which can be beneficial.

 

And incidentally, as for developers being bugged to post and respond to PMs, it seems to me that under no circumstances should a developer be expected to perform a consistent public relations function in this kind of way, in this kind of environment, and sane fans know this, so this should be beside the point. Were I developer on such a board as this, frankly, I would simply disable PMs to all developers posting within the community, because it's not worth the hassle, nor should it be expected. PMs regarding message board administration should be directed at moderators and community leaders.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Congratulations on the new arrival

 

Personally I see nothing wrong with weilding the firebrand and keeping the trolls in check. After all this is an aspect of the company and needs a degree of professionalism.

[The Bardic Pen]

I say close the forums. Half the people here are ungrateful ****s anyway, so no point in keeping them open.

[Guest Damar Stiehl]

Statement: If this board gets stricter moderation and stays up, I sincerely hope it's moderated by a paid moderator, or moderators, not unpaid volunteers from the community.

 

Unnecessary Addendum: it's not like there isn't a precedent of a developer getting heavily involved in flame wars. Does the name Derek Smart ring the bell? Hehe.

[Nevan]

I hope the forums stay up until after the patch has been out for awhile.

[Guest Fallen Jedi]

Just keep the forums up and running. There's no need to close 'em just because of a few whiners.

A couple of xtra moderators would be appreciated though.

[lovecraft]

Ah, Battlecruiser 3000 A.D. how could anyone forget the game that was released in a pre alpha state. I never played it but then again I understand the people that did buy it did not get to play it much either. One of my favorite Gamespot review quotes:

 

It will go down in legend as the most bug-ridden, unstable, unplayable pieces of software ever released. - T. Liam McDonald

 

That game is proof that long development times do not ensure good games. 7 years in development and barely half finished.

[LdyShayna]

I don't think I could add much that hasn't already be said. I understand the frustration, and the apparent lose-lose situation (can't respond much so people think you don't care vs. no forums so people think you don't care). However, I hope you guys reconsider.

[Darth Rabbit]

To Obsidianent,

 

Please do not close down these forums, there will always be those who complain but of course also those who will encourge, help and support your activities.

 

A forum/community is a great opportunity for a company to get feedback and build up a relationship oriented communication with its customers.

 

I have to say that Kotor 2 was a great and fun game to play when i wanted to take a break from writing my masters thesis in servicequality. And i thank you for giving me that possibility. Above all this froum also gives a great deal of help if you need to know something about the game or if you are stuck.

 

Take care!

[Colrom]

Well, Feargus, its nice to hear from you.

 

Although I wish the content of your post was different its nice to know you care.

 

How about taking some time to talk about the game, and upcoming projects, and the staff, and stuff like that.

 

[~Di]

Sheesh. Real helpful. Come in with an oh-so-clever moniker like, say "manitsbuggy"... then for three glorious weeks bitch and moan in every one of your 22 brilliant bitch-and-moan posts, then give the president of Obsidian a condescending lecture about how he should run his company, his forums, and the proper way to deal with his publisher. Yep, yep, that'll give Feargie the incentive to pour more money and manpower into ye olde boards!

 

This board is Obsidian's living room. Now I don't know what kind of hovel some of you live in, but when people are invited into my living room I don't let them flop on my sofa, empty my frig, then proceed to insult me, call me names, tell me how to run my household, live my life and raise my children. That, boys and girls, is rude (in case your mama's didn't tell you... and clearly, some of them didn't).

 

Personally I think giving mods increased banning ability is the best idea yet.

[Daaave]

Sheesh.  Real helpful.  Come in with an oh-so-clever moniker like, say "manitsbuggy"... then for three glorious weeks bitch and moan in every one of your 22 brilliant bitch-and-moan posts, then give the president of Obsidian a condescending lecture about how he should run his company, his forums, and the proper way to deal with his publisher.  Yep, yep, that'll give Feargie the incentive to pour more money and manpower into ye olde boards!

 

This board is Obsidian's living room.  Now I don't know what kind of hovel some of you live in, but when people are invited into my living room I don't let them flop on my sofa, empty my frig, then proceed to insult me, call me names, tell me how to run my household, live my life and raise my children.  That, boys and girls, is rude (in case your mama's didn't tell you... and clearly, some of them didn't).

 

Personally I think giving mods increased banning ability is the best idea yet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

*applauds*

[Parry Darklighter]

Wow, this thread is almost as the one that announced the possibilty of a content patch. We are all such whores for this game that we sop up any info and cringe in fright at anything being taking away.

 

While I make it a point to read all of any thread I comment in, I have to admit I skipped over the last 5 pages as very little seemed to be changing in the temprament of the posts, ranging from 'Shut up you whiners look what you did' to 'We love you Obsidian and your game completed my spirtual quest, do not shut the forums despite that fact that since your game was so good I have had little participation in of the threads since I am too busy feeling a state of euphoria to be able to successfully manuplate my keyboars' to 'Oh please, we are sorry for critisizing the obvious and glaring faults in the ending and will never do it again, please don't deprive us of the chance to share our feelings, as long as they are not offensive or overtly critical'. Please people, have some pride.

 

Now perhaps the descision to shut these boards down is a responsible one. These are official Obsidian boards, hence as posters we expect at least some interaction from official Obisidian people. I will be honest, the attention that Bioware has paid to their forums has spoiled me in that respect. If they are unable for reasons beyond their control (as per Ferg's real life situation which he rightly judges more important than these boards, or perhaps they are even tired of being unable to answer complaints/offer suggestions due to contractual agreements and are tired of the feeling of impotence that accompanies that) to answer, then shutting the boards down is a good move.

 

I will say I would be disappointed, if only in that this is the only board where Hades One has not been an insufferable GeekElite and has actually contributed something which I appreciated.

[Volourn]

Too much drama in this thread. Let's keep the soap oepras on t, please.

 

I do say it's one thing to criticize; it's another to insult people personally or to act like they owe you their entire life.

 

I say, Obsidian should make me Board Adminisitrator. I'd get the board in tip to ship... either that, or I'd make it a ghost baord with my mass bannings.

 

No mercy for the wicked is my rule.

 

P.S. Congrats on the baby, Monsieur Urquhart.

[AlanC9]

Speaking of "ghost boards", here's the Platonic ideal.

 

http://xsorbit26.com/users5/languatron/index.php

 

Someone found a way to have perfect agreement on every topic. Only the administrator is allowed to post.

 

It's amazing how much hatred the new Galactica series can produce.

 

(Just trying to drive the thread further OT).