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Where is the respect?

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I can't believe the nerve and IQ of some of these NPC's. You know, the badguys. Bounty hunters mostly.

 

I try to let my Sith Lord to be as much of an anti-social as possible. Killing people if their answer or attitudes do not appease her. Respect or death, that kind of thing. Her face looks so evil that my party members consider from a distance that maybe she wasn't the best kind of leader they picked to follow. Massacring over half a city's troops like Ondoron for the worse should give me a decent reputation on badass level, right? Wrong!

 

Bounty hunter #204 arrives: "Oh, ho ho. I have finally find you. I am so smart and superior compared to you, boy will this be the easiest fight ever!" *One force lightning later, only some smoldered boots are left in his place*

 

Rinse, repeat. All these NPC's are so overconfident. I was hoping to build a reputation in this game. People see me, they should either scream and run away or shake in their boots when I talk to them. But not these people. I'm sure these same kind of people would just walk over to Darth Vader and tell him to go have sexual intercourse with himself in a not so nice way if he gave them his cold stare. I therefor blame the NPC's for making my PC go dark side. Their overconfident arrogance doomed their world, mwuahaha!

 

 

Ahem

 

Well that was just my small rant. I actually enjoyed both games quite a bit, and this was my only gripe with it (apart from the ending).

 

 

Oh, and hi. :)

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yeah, its annoying how you can cut through hundreds of sith, destroy a couple of planets, defeat a hugely powerful dark lord of the sith yet most of the enemies only show respect when they lie dying in a pool of their own blood.

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Well, they would have to be pretty stupid to try and collect on you in the first place, wouldn't they? I mean, probably the real tough, smart and old bounty hunters that wouldn't underestimate you, don't think you're worth the trouble.


- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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I would have liked a conversation options that went something like this:

 

Big Bad Bounty Hunter: Finally we meet Jedi. Prep...

Exile choise - 1: [Listen the Big Bad Bounty Hunter]

Exile choise - 2: [Fry the Big Bad Bounty Hunter with force lightning and continue on your way]

 

 

And I play lightsider...


Move along, nothing to see here!

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He gets no respect...


Lou Gutman, P.I.- It's like I'm not even trying anymore!
http://theatomicdanger.iforumer.com/index....theatomicdanger

One billion b-balls dribbling simultaneously throughout the galaxy. One trillion b-balls being slam dunked through a hoop throughout the galaxy. I can feel every single b-ball that has ever existed at my fingertips. I can feel their collective knowledge channeling through my viens. Every jumpshot, every rebound and three-pointer, every layup, dunk, and free throw. I am there.

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Guest Damar Stiehl

No, it's Darth Jabberjaw. No respect!

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with regards to the post on kotor3,

 

im hoping that whoever develops it spends a good long time doing so and i would dearly like to see some of the npc 'learning' developed, here is one respect in which kotor shud take a leaf outta fables book

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I made a roleplaying game once that had a stat called that roughly translates as "impression" to specificly counter this ridiculous behavior.


DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself.

 

Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture.

 

"I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. "

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5 short years later everybody forgot how bad jedi/sith are. I can understand the bounty hunters with numbers filling they could take you but the single ones where just dumb. I hate how your force to follow Mira I wish I could just cut her down.

 

The first HK-50 gave you respect by drugging you. Must have been DL HK-47 files. :-

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I agree, you should be able to "convince" them that your abilities are not to be messed with much like vader did in anh with a light force choke!


Another great idea by the people who brought you beer milkshakes!

 

"I don't see a problem...then again, SW isn't my life, so what do I know...." - some who makes 27.8 post per day on a SW forum!

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Consider that the Exile is a "retired" jedi, so i don't see too strange that most of them see you as just a normal prey, is it true that on some planets you could get a good reputation, but also consider that most of these planets are a bit "isolated" and that your char is trying to keep a low profile to not meet millions of enemies at every corner.

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To get NPCs to react realistically to your character's sex/behaviour/alignment, the amount of dialogue needed for each character could quadruple. At the very least, every NPC would need a completely different LS/DS dialogue tree. This is certainly possible, but in order to keep the game manageable (and on budget) you'd need to lose other elements of freedom. You'd probably have to give up the freedom to take planets in the order you choose, and you couldn't have so many possible party members, maybe only two or three. Are gamers willing to make that trade-off? And would the game developers take the risk that reviewers might react badly to this, marking the game down for being too 'linear'?


"An electric puddle is not what I need right now." (Nina Kalenkov)

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Consider that the Exile is a "retired" jedi, so i don't see too strange that most of them see you as just a normal prey, is it true that on some planets you could get a good reputation, but also consider that most of these planets are a bit "isolated" and that your char is trying to keep a low profile to not meet millions of enemies at every corner.

Hence why i'd like to be able to "convice" them that i am not useless!


Another great idea by the people who brought you beer milkshakes!

 

"I don't see a problem...then again, SW isn't my life, so what do I know...." - some who makes 27.8 post per day on a SW forum!

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with regards to the post on kotor3,

 

im hoping that whoever develops it spends a good long time doing so and i would dearly like to see some of the npc 'learning' developed, here is one respect in which kotor shud take a leaf outta fables book

 

I agree there, i just hope it isn't another Duke Nukem Forever, Never. lol

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To get NPCs to react realistically to your character's sex/behaviour/alignment, the amount of dialogue needed for each character could quadruple...

 

This is a good point. I thought about this a bit after first playing KOTORII, and finally wrote some dialogue management code to see how scalable it could be. I think that the saving grace of a nominally more complex system is that it would not be strictly necessary to have unique responses for M/F/DS/LS/etc... in many cases dialogue responses would be identical, but the (non-conversational) *side effects* of the player's choices would be different. So instead of increasing complexity of the dialogue tree, the additional complexity gets offloaded to the force/influence/status maintenance code, which already exists and is (or should be) always running anyway.

 

Aside from such side effects, much of the dialogue has a limited scope (conversation, quest, planet), and if proper bookkeeping (with respect to force/influence/etc) is done the amount of information that must carry over from one scope to another is minimal. This keeps the state-machine complexity that would otherwise arise down to a much more manageable level... the 'next action' table becomes a (very) sparse matrix and the number of states that must be tracked drops from n^p (n = number of independent dialogues, p for m/f/LS/DS/etc options) to something less than or equal to n*p... the point being that the complexity can grow as a linear function rather than a power function, resulting in much more scalable code.

 

It seems to me that an NPC that reacts to you based on your actual stats (all simple numbers that are already tracked: the NPC already knows your gender, there are already numbers assigned to force and player level etc) rather than on what your response was to a specific question in a specific conversation on some other planet would seem much more 'intelligent'... the information still gets carried over, in the form of the effect it had on your stats. For quests and plotlines that are more global in scope, more rigorous accounting can be done, but this represents a small fraction of the interactions you have throughout the game.

 

There is also a reasonably compact fuzzy-logic representation of this type of data that is already used for AI; applying this to management of the PC's state would result in a system that, while not explicitly guaranteeing a specific NPC response, would base NPC's reactions on any number of qualifiers (history, alignment, gender etc) in a contextual manner without excess baggage. It basically provides each NPC with a personality that reacts to your state of being rather than giving them each a list of responses that may or may not be in context.

 

Much of this is academic in the context of KOTORII, however, since in this game NPCs often forget what you are talking about or what alignment you are right in the middle of a conversation. If the NPC's are just going to wing it regardless of your actions, you don't have to do a lot of state tracking. :/

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