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Will any of you be pulling a David Gaider?


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The first time finishing TSL I wondered what hit me.

 

The second time, I wondered what kind of scheduling crunch hit you.

 

As it is, it's a good game.

 

It looks like it sold well enough to pay the bills and keep the shareholders happy, and I can't complain about having bought it - I had my money's worth of fun from it, and more - so if that's all she wrote, so be it. It doesn't look like it'll be worth it from the company's perspective to spend more to make TSL the game it could have been instead of focusing on NWN2, and I can understand that.

 

Still, I have to ask - will any of you developers be pulling a David Gaider?

 

BG2:ToB was a good game when it came out, and could have been better. Gaider was Senior Designer on it, and then spent a lot of his personal time in the year or two following its release making some mods which significantly enhanced both the story and gameplay of ToB.

 

I wish I could say that Gaider's job now pays three times as much in consequence, or that women now throw themselves at his feet in awe of his work on the Ascension et al. mods, but I really don't know. He's still working for Bioware as a designer on Dragon Age, so I can at least say that the effort didn't kill his career.

 

I don't expect an answer, both because it's going above and beyond the call of duty, and because even if one of you were resurrecting all (or some) of that cut ending content, you wouldn't want to raise expectations early.

 

This game came very close to being like PS:T - a rare and timeless classic in a field of ephemerae. It might still be, given work. I cannot demand what would have to be a labor of love.

 

But I'd like to give any of you developers who haven't yet thought of it the idea.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, if the forums go, they go. Some last words, just in case:

 

Much as I'd like to see KOTOR II done the way it could have been done, and delighted as I would be to see a mod by someone restoring even the small things that could be so restored, there will be other games, and even other games which could be of the finest. Some of them made by you at Obsidian, I hope.

 

Startups don't always pan out: Troika had some wonderful ideas, and talent that I respect, but they never quite managed to execute on any of their projects. More even than seeing KOTOR II done right, I hope to see you at OE avoid Troika's pattern long enough to hit your stride, cut loose, and show what you can really do - not just what you can do on a tight timeline. Best of luck as you move on to the next project - you made a good game this time around, and might have made a great one. I look forward to seeing you surpass yourselves next time, and the time after that.

 

Above all else, thanks - it was fun.

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bg started as a bio project, and gaider were a bio developer... he were also as much a fan of bg as anybody. initially, bg:tob was gonna be part 3 of a trilogy... full game. ended up making it an expansion instead. as it were the first game that gaider were ever the lead guy on, he had soooo many more things he wanted to do with it but could not. gaider did during free time... as darrah had done in coming up with the wild mage. also, while there is revisionist history going on 'bout it, the overwhelming fan feedback for tob were positive. sure, some folks noted that woulda' liked for A or B or C to be different, but the fans and critics were largely complimentary.

 

kotor2 were the sequel to a bio game. we doubt that anybody at obsidian really had any kinda emotional attachment to the game. the chances seem slim that some obsidian developer would wanna continue working on it, 'specially given the fact that so many of the fans has been belligerent and unfair with their criticism of kotor2.

 

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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I'm probably being naive here, but the obvious way to curb a good portion of the beligerant criticism is to answer the nagging question: Why were game elements cut?

 

Fair criticism: the DS path is ..incomplete.

 

After all is said and done, that is my only real beef with the game.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest Lakmoots

Geezuss... I don't want them to "pull a David Gaidar", I just want them to "pull a competent developer"

 

That would be nice. A vast section of their audience cannot actually play or finish this game, so there is more to it than just a "couple" of incomplete elements.

 

I think it is an awesome game and compelling storyline, I just cannot read the final pages!

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Geezuss... I don't want them to "pull a David Gaidar", I just want them to "pull a competent developer"

The developers are not the problem.

"Who could blame Skynet? He's such a cute, innocent, steel-bolted robot."

-Gauntlet

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Aside from the problems already mentioned, the KOTOR games are inherently less moddable than BG2.

 

Unlike in BG2, a character without a voice sticks out like a sore thumb, restricting any potential dialogue to what was already recorded and just left out....and also unlike BG2, by having a Developer adding even 'unofficial' content, you also have what amounts to a developer giving an unofficial middle finger to all the X-Boxers who can't get that mod.

I made this half-pony half-monkey monster to please you

But I get the feeling that you don't like it

What's with all the screaming?

You like monkeys, you like ponies

Maybe you don't like monsters so much

Maybe I used too many monkeys

Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?

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Lakmoots: Were you playing an evil character?

 

Skynet: How do you know that?

We all know it was rushed, but everything else is speculation. Or has some Official statement been released?

 

 

I want to see some good, old-fashioned, finger-pointing. :)

 

Obsidian: You've got to know that your rep took a pretty hearty blow.

 

I'm as dedicated as the next person, let's get that out of the way, but WTF happened? Actually, you know what? It doesn't matter, as long as you know; and you know that it cannot happen again. :(

 

 

I had another thought. I know (or think) that Gromnir isn't an employee of Obsidian, but when he says "kotor2 were the sequel to a bio game. we doubt that anybody at obsidian really had any kinda emotional attachment to the game" it makes me wonder. A lot. How can any writer not be attached to something they write?

 

How much of this is Obsidians story?

 

(questions, questions) :-"

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How much of this is Obsidians story?

 

None of it. They pulled a Terminator/Matrix-style hijack from an elderly woman. It's not libel if its on the net, right?

 

On topic, on whos dog? Hey, I normally don't defend anyone in public besides women of low morals whom I can curry favor with, but I am in the faction that believes that K2 was pretty damn good. Sure it could have been better, but any game except Star Control 2 has that fault. The expectation that has been placed on Obsidian by some nutcases is so fantasticly great that I don't really know how the people behind the curtain deal with it. I mean really, sometimes you have to just have to enjoy things for what they are and realize that not everyone will offer a reach-around.

 

You also inquired if someone played an evil character. I almost have to ask, did you? Or were you hoping for "evile" along the lines of Kotor1, cheesy laughing and all? The approach to evil taken in K2 was done with signifigantly more taste and (seemingly real-life) experience than almost any other game released in the last five years. If someone wearing red tights and a cape thrown over one shoulder came into my hood trying to muscle my crew with talk of "the Dark Side mwa-ha-ha"... well, lets just say it wouldn't be pretty.

 

Most people are evil in the real world because of incremental and seemingly insignificant choices. Choices which are rationalized regardless whether they are driven by emotion or logical consideration. I also believe that K2 succeeded in bringing some depth to that kiddie-pool of a villain, Darth Malak. His scene in the Force cave on Korriban actually made Kotor1 playable to me again.

 

Now that thats all out of the way, I WANT THAT DROID FACTORY! What the hell were you guys doing? Who was responsible? Who needs a taste of the old truncheon? Tell me!

WHAT A HORRIBLE NIGHT TO HAVE A CURSE.

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None of it.  They pulled a Terminator/Matrix-style hijack from an elderly woman.  It's not libel if its on the net, right?

:(

 

Okay. The q was poorly phrased. I wonder how much control they had over the story.

 

Yes, I have played an evil character - 3 of them, actually. And yes, I agree that it is preferrable to playing bioEvil any day. (But I would expect nothing less of Obsidian) The first game was played through with an evil character, which is probably what enhanced the feeling of being thrown through the plot to Malachor.

 

You know, now that I think about it - why do we even bother with Remote? Will the patch just cut it? Please? That, more than anything, screams unfinished quest. Yes, even more than the droid factory - because it's at the end of the game.

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None of it.  They pulled a Terminator/Matrix-style hijack from an elderly woman.  It's not libel if its on the net, right?

:-

 

Okay. The q was poorly phrased. I wonder how much control they had over the story.

 

Yes, I have played an evil character - 3 of them, actually. And yes, I agree that it is preferrable to playing bioEvil any day. (But I would expect nothing less of Obsidian) The first game was played through with an evil character, which is probably what enhanced the feeling of being thrown through the plot to Malachor.

 

You know, now that I think about it - why do we even bother with Remote? Will the patch just cut it? Please? That, more than anything, screams unfinished quest. Yes, even more than the droid factory - because it's at the end of the game.

 

I was just joking about the Matrix/Terminator thing.. its in reference to some lawsuit against the Wachowski brothers... they supposedly stole a script and/or treatment that was The Matrix from some old lady. Shes taking them to court for like $3 billion.

 

You're right about Remote.

Did you get the short cutscene where Goto sneaks up behind Remote and short circuits it?

At the time I was very much "huh?" What happens at the end took that little scene and actually made some sense.

WHAT A HORRIBLE NIGHT TO HAVE A CURSE.

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One of the major disadvantages of any voiced game is that changes will stick out in a very obvious way. And since hiring VOT is beyond the scope of a hobby project I wouldnt expect anything and even if it was done, it would look even more out of place than having nothing there.

I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

478327[/snapback]

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Thanks to Gaider Hordes of the Underdark sucks. I hope that Obsidian will

avoid this sexist looser (for those who don't know: this guy screwed Bastila's character which was so nicely designed by Drew Karpyshyn).

HERMOCRATES:

Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks

of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned.

 

SOCRATES:

This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale.

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One of the major disadvantages of any voiced game is that changes will stick out in a very obvious way. And since hiring VOT is beyond the scope of a hobby project I wouldnt expect anything and even if it was done, it would look even more out of place than having nothing there.

But, in some cases a lot of it's already there. Although, I don't know to what extent as I haven't picked apart the files with this little editor/viewer. Question is, how much does it matter to them? :)

 

You know people would eat it up, regardless.

 

Further, if one really wants to make a case for the merits of PC gaming over consoles, make a mod that the XBox users can't have. :)

 

 

Darth Barth: I figured it was a joke, I just didn't get the reference. :)

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Screwed Aribeth's story that was set straight at the end of NWN. Not to mention awful blurb about sleeping man and main character unable to find a life-partner in the entire universe. After finale I felt depressed.

HERMOCRATES:

Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks

of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned.

 

SOCRATES:

This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale.

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"Thanks to Gaider Hordes of the Underdark sucks. I hope that Obsidian will

avoid this sexist looser (for those who don't know: this guy screwed Bastila's character which was so nicely designed by Drew Karpyshyn)."

 

LON (Ladies of Neverwinter) doens't think so. And, how cna he ruin Aribeth when it's his character? And, he didn't ruin Bastila either. Now, if you want to whine about how horrible Gaider is, at least pick on him for the silly kobold retard.

 

 

"After finale I felt depressed."

 

Good. Then, as a writer, he did his job. He made you feel emotion. That's the kind of thing all writers want their audience to feel - emotion. :(

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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And, he didn't ruin Bastila either.

He ruined. She was intended to be a great hero and he transformed her into

whining, weak girl. It was she, who should strike down Malak!

HERMOCRATES:

Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks

of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned.

 

SOCRATES:

This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale.

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He ruined. She was intended to be a great hero and he transformed her into

whining, weak girl. It was she, who should strike down Malak!

 

Um? To be honest, I would have been extremely upset if the story played out where Bastila, not MY character, ended up being the hero of the game.

 

Which is what would have occured if they went with your ridiculous ending.

"Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque

"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)

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This ending could be included as optional.

 

Bastila Rules. The End

HERMOCRATES:

Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks

of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned.

 

SOCRATES:

This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale.

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Ya and then her mom shows up and she all heal her and then she reforms Op Ivy and plays drums for them badass

People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair.

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