Evil Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Surely the most here finished the game, so i use no spoiler tags in here. Some things at the plot where strange. 1.) Nihilus. At the first i thoght this is a Revan copy or something, but they moved soon. Then he speaks a strange language, but thats okay. 2.) Sion. Hes a walking corpse with the power of the hate. But hes not 'realy' a dark lord of the sith. Hes more something like Saul Carath from KotOR 1 with Forcepowers. Anyway. Both 'Sith-Lords' are somehow lame. In the first game i realy had the feeling that Malak is working against me while i move on, but in TSL i never had any feeling like that. Visas showing up didnt changed it. I think they are both 'weak' Sith. Even Malak was a better foe then both of them. And dont forget the Temple on Malakor V. The foes just stand around in empty rooms without ANY 'placeables' or even containers or tables or anything. Okay, Kreia. Kreia is a nice plot character and realy gives the feeling of manipulating all around her. But still... she seeks the neutrality of the Force, the death of the Force. Why the hell she shows as a Sith at the end? Theres no neutrality on the dark side. The other things i liked to see different are the mini-plots of the partymembers. Why didnt HK lead us to the HK-50 facility? Why cant you tell as a male that you love the Handmaid or Visas? Sure, that 'look each other' thing means something like that, but is this realy what we wanted? When i could rewrite the story of TSL i would make it more unpredictable. Also that feeling of beeing hunted that i realy loved from the original game should be implented. And, of course, a ending that shows up what happens. Also what happens to all of my (my/Revans) former allys would be interesting. Agree with me or not, but still. For me is the first KotOR the best one. Hope that the next game (and I'm sure there will be one) will be a new milestone like the first one was. But still... what do you guys/girls out there think about it? What would YOU change if you could? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollick Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 I agree that this game has little, or in my opinion, no atmosphere. And as for Nihilis? He's centre stage in the artwork, but just gurgles and dies? For someone who could destroy a planet full of Jedi???!!! This game was extremely disappointing, given its precursor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zilod Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 In my opinion (said that even in another post) all these sith lords are not real villians that as Malak try to stop you.... they are just pawns on kreia board and she use them to test and "enlight" you. Considering that i think it make sense that they appear just to die or to teach something to the exile, and not to pose a real threat. about Nihilus his power is to drain the force and the life out of living behings, the exile is a hole in the force, he can't be drained so Nihilus is powerless against him, and return to be "just a man". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Envy Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 What I'd like the plot to be? Hm, well to start - I'd like it to be somewhat finished. Rarely have I been pulled so hard into a storyline, only to watch it end in utter idiocy due to an INSANELY rushed end-game. Yes, that's what I'd like it to be. Then he speaks a strange language, but thats okay. You might have noticed the same language is spoken by the Sith holocrons. And this is why I believe Nihilius to be a True Sith. Shame we didn't get to know more about the man behind the mask, but maybe it's for the better? "When the foul sore of envy corrupts the vanquished heart, the very exterior itself shows how forcibly the mind is urged by madness. For paleness seizes the complexion, the eyes are weighed down, the spirit is inflamed, while the limbs are chilled, there is frenzy in the heart, there is gnashing with the teeth." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Msxyz Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 The only "real" sith out there is Kreia. Even Malak was quite pathetic because it was not very different from the other sadistic mercyless thugs of his army with the only goal of spreading destruction. The true essence of the dark side is selfishness (as many times it has been pointed in the EU books). She manipulates everyone for her goals, her cinic distrust of any action towards good and eveil is a measure of her interest only in what may breed a profit or an advantage. She loves also to destroy any confidence the player gains raising questions (sometime legitimate, sometime paranoic) because people with strong motivations (good or not) are less prone to being manipulated. Of the many EU characters encountered in games she's the one that come closer to emperor Palpatine and by far superior to the usual Sith sterotype seen in many games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice-Cold Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 I hated Darth Sions voice.. lol.. it didnt go well with his character.. an english accent trying to do a voice of a Dark Lord? pfft. I also thought when you kill Darth Nihilus and ask the seer to get you his mask, we would have been able to wear it, but we cant . And also, who else here thinks that Jedi Master on Nar Shaddaa looks creepy? he has a really big tash, and earings? lol, looks like a biker, and his voice sucked too.. I think next time, I'll kill him. Shane Tyduk Some awesome title name here "If you sharpen a knife to its limits, you run the risk of cutting your own hand. The knife has no choice but to be as sharp as you made it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Posted February 17, 2005 Author Share Posted February 17, 2005 Your right with that. He looks like a biker. For you to understand, my native language is german and i only know the german voices. Sion sounds okay in german, Nihilius has the same tracks (theres no translation for a sith tongue). Only Visas sounds a bit strange. Still... this Story and the one from KotOR 1 is now the offical story of this century in Star Wars past. Thats a bit sad i think. Two 'Sith-Lords' that are just there to be a step for the exile? And i want more romances and funnys. Like use grab to hover a civilian over the fence of nar shadda and let him fall down. Something that way. About the true essence of the dark side... i think your wrong. Theres a thing that all Sith share. Hate. Revan is the only one where i'm not sure. Malak hates the Jedi and Revan. Nihilus hates all Life. Sion hates Kreia(and loves her), but also hate the exile (and loves HER). Maul hated the Jedi. Sidious hated the Jedi. Vader hated Obi-Wan. So on. Hate is the true essence of the dark side. Sure, they all where somehow egostic, but thats not they're true source of power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Msxyz Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 About the true essence of the dark side... i think your wrong. Theres a thing that all Sith share. Hate. Revan is the only one where i'm not sure. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hate is only an emotion. The truth is that if you let strong emotions (either good or bad) rule your heart you'll loose the grip on balance placing your own will above anything else and obviously becoming selfish. That's why Jedi are taught to avoid not only bad feelings like hate or greed but also love. But is this good ? Those who are taught to avoid emotions rather than confront them may become unpredictable once they're put under pressure because emotions rule the life of sentient beings and sooner or later they will surface nevertheless. That's the greates flawl of the Jedi doctrine. Jedi teachings limit the individual freedom; dark side -on the contrary- encourages a life with little rules or bonds. This may be indeed a sort subtle, inconscious revenge against the Jedi doctrine which is perceived (and, indeed, it may be) flawled, not to mention that a high confidence in the power of the Force sometimes may reinforce the wrong belief of being above the others. Dark Siders become arrogant, egocentric and the unsatisfaction repressed in years of jedi training may indeed culminate in act of violence (not necessarily physical) to give vent to inner frustrations: that's why Dark Siders seems to hate evertything they couldn't achieve: serenty, love or maybe even a normal life. In the end, the Dark Side IS selfishness, coming in many subtle ways, for different reasons. Lucas envisioned the Jedi as a sort of monastic order, following a strict rule of conduct and possessing a deep and incredible knolwedge. The struggle between the light and the dark side is not necessary the struggle between Good and Evil, but between order and chaos. Who said Jedi are good? They might persue the greater good of the galaxy but sometimes they display a form of righteous arrogance and their strict discipline limits their vision of reality luring them into making terrible mistakes. On the other side there is chaos and at its root there is selfishness: the Force is a powerful tool that lure its users into believing to be above the rest of the sentient beings, beyond good and evil. But, in the end, they fail to reach a greater state of enlightment (There' is an interesting analogy with "ubermesch" envisioned by Nietzsche) and they only succeed in playing their own downfall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuvein Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 I disagree this game lacks atmosphere... it has a very unique feeling. Also, as others said, the Force isn't about good or evil. The Force is law and chaos, where Jedi are supreme order (no emotions, passions or errant thoughts) and the Sith are chaos (love, hate, and all that) to extreme levels. Also, you think this is bad? Play Anachranox. The game ends halfway through, and there never wil be a sequel. And it was such a great game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Posted February 17, 2005 Author Share Posted February 17, 2005 Untrue. Love isnt a part of the dark side, passion is. Watch EP2, Anakin says that ****. And its true, hes not inventing it to get Padm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuvein Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Untrue. Love isnt a part of the dark side, passion is. Watch EP2, Anakin says that ****. And its true, hes not inventing it to get Padm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Posted February 17, 2005 Author Share Posted February 17, 2005 Also, untrue. If you love someone you love him. If you get jealously, or angry cause she/he left you behind for another woman/man, thats a passion. If you want to dominate your partner etc., thats a passion. Love is just Love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vadrillan Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 I hated Darth Sions voice.. lol.. it didnt go well with his character.. an english accent trying to do a voice of a Dark Lord? pfft. Excuse me? You might think his voice doesn't fit, but because he's got an English accent?!?!?! What should he have then? And why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuvein Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Also, untrue. If you love someone you love him. If you get jealously, or angry cause she/he left you behind for another woman/man, thats a passion. If you want to dominate your partner etc., thats a passion. Love is just Love. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, passion is simply a strong emotion. That's why people can be passionate about their lives or work, because they feel strongly for it. Hell, one of the official definition for passion is 'a strong amorous feeling'. That means, strong feeling of love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Posted February 17, 2005 Author Share Posted February 17, 2005 That still doesent mean that love belongs to the dark side. Jedi also love each other sometimes and not all of them fall. Some of course, but not all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuvein Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Its a matter of self control. A Jedi could hate, love, and feel all emotions if they really have enough control over themselves to handle it, and not let it control them. The Light side is logic over passion, the dark side is often passion over logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Msxyz Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Evil: then explain why jedi who're found to have love relations are cast out of the order or they willingly renounce to their jedi status. Sometimes called grey jedi. You logic is flawled. Love is a passion, a feeling, an emotion whatever you like to call it. Since part of the jedi doctrine is centrated around total control of emotions, it's one of those thing that are forbidden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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