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Tyrell

Should KOTOR 3 even be a sequel to KOTOR 2?

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I know the topic sounds weird but I just thought about something. Does K3 HAVE to be a direct sequel to K2? Like how K2 was to K1?

 

I my mind I believe KOTOR should go the route of that of Final Fantasy. Each game with its own locations, characters, and story and not having ANYTHING to do with the past installments.

 

I personally believe that K3 should take place MANY years after K2....say like 50 years or even 100 years after K2. Start over with a new plot and set of characters. Get away from this Mandalorian War based plot that K1 had and K2 had. The Mandalorian War should be a thing of the past and have NO direct effect to K3. Same with the Jedi Civil War.

 

Lets start off with a new Sith Lord, new technology and new motives. Not saying that picking up after K2 would be bad but I think it would in many ways hurt the game. It is just to broad trying to make a part 3 and trying to decide rather Revan was DS or LS or the Exile was DS or LS or rather Revan was male/female or rather the Exile was male/female. Cause you know if if K3 takes place directly after K2 (As many is implying and probably hoping for) this situation that I just pointed out would come into effect and would cause many continuity problems.

 

Thats why the game should be like 100 years after so we won't have to worry about a Exile or Revan cause they would all be dead. Just start over. We could have a KOTOR franchise without each game being a ideal sequel to the previous one.

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That's probably what K2 should have been. Unfortuantely, as K2 was ended on that pathetic excuse for a 'cliffhanger', they now need to finish this saga off, perhaps in the Star Wars tradition of the trilogy.

 

After that, I say it should move on to greener pastures. :thumbsup:


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That's probably what K2 should have been.  Unfortuantely, as K2 was ended on that pathetic excuse for a 'cliffhanger', they now need to finish this saga off, perhaps in the Star Wars tradition of the trilogy.

 

my thoughts exactly. had k2 not had anything to do with k1, or not left so many cliffhangers about the exile and revan, then i would have agreed with the final fantasy-like series, where the games dont necessarily follow up the previous ones story.

 

but since they chose to make k2 a direct follow up, including some of the same characters and following the same events (roughly) and had it end in a "cliffhanger", i think their hands are tied in making sure k3 follows that same principle otherwise there will be more than a few pissed off fans (myself included) that we never really got closure after k2.

 

After that, I say it should move on to greener pastures.  :-

 

agreed. but in my mind, the time period itself wouldnt be a bad idea to use, but just make it a good 100 or 200 or even 500 years after the events of the trilogy (assuming it is one, as noted by my above reasons). that way when that new series is made, there wont be a need to worry about the events of the kotor series or characters, except in passing reference, such as how kotor has handled various eu events without making them a central theme.

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:) KotOR III has got to be a direct sequel to Sith Lords. It just has to be! Bite your tongue for even thinking that it shouldn't be. :(

 

All kidding aside :D , they made their bed and now they are going to have to program in it. The next one will really be an expansion of this one. After that, maybe they can take it another way.

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All kidding aside  :D  , they made their bed and now they are going to have to program in it.  The next one will really be an expansion of this one.  After that, maybe they can take it another way.

 

you know what? im kinda hoping that kotor3 (or atleast the conclusion of this series) will be just an expansion pack, similar in the way that hotu is to nwn so that we can use these epic level characters to just finish off the story.

 

i dont think there needs to be any improvements, gameplay-wise, except to iron out bugs and whatnot. instead, it should be soley focussed on closing the story of revan and the exile. and since thats all that needs to be done, an expansion rather than a full blown "sequel" is the way to go, imo.

 

then they can move on once the story is finished and begin work on a brand new game.

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That could be done.

I would like to have the ending to the story of Sith Lords as fast as possible.

Then we could forget about Revan and the Exile and move on to other eras.

 

And after that we could have a KOTRN. :)


And by the light of the moon

He prays for their beauty not doom

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Well, unfortunately, the way this thing has been setup from a storytelling standpoint, K3 would almost have to be a direct follow up to K2. And let's face it. Had K2 been a stand-alone game with brand new characters and a brand new plotline to follow (which someone on these boards suggested Bioware originally wanted to do) the majority of fans would have been apoplectic.

 

Like I said in another thread, you could go back to the very first days last year on these boards when it first announced that OE would be developing K2, and some of the first threads were "What do you think happened to Bastila/Revan/Carth, etc." And the way K2 ended, it leaves little choice for the direction K3 needs to take. It's just so unfinished.

 

Also, remember that conversation you had with Carth (I think it was, could've been someone else - Lieutenant Grenn or Master Kavar maybe?) about how the consequences of the Jedi Civil War are far reaching and the galaxy would most likely feel it's effects for many years to come? I took that as veiled reference to many more KOTOR games in the future. Maybe I was just misreading that, though.

 

But after a third KOTOR game, then yeah, definitely time to move on to something new.

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Well I'm sort of hoping that K3 will sort of rap up this saga like ROTJ, whereas we destroy the "True Sith" with the Exile or Revan or both. If anything happens afterward I hope it takes place maybe 20 years after K3.

 

But K2 left us with a cliffhanger and to make K3 not a sequel K2's ending would look even more poor in my eyes and would be the WTF game of all time.

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It would be a dab story telling to leave the cliffhanger unfulfilled, but I also agree to a point with Tyrell.

 

This is what I would do. Create an expansion pack for KotOR 2 that would be both an add in and add on to KotOR 2 to end that story line.

 

Then make a separate Star Wars RPG license that adheres closer to the game mechanics of the Star Wars d20 PnP game or use completely different and original rules set. I don't like the FF framework, since each Star Wars CRPGs will take place in the same setting, which wasn't true in the FF games. I would follow the same framework as the Ultima series. Each game builds upon the previous, but not tied specifically to those events. Also if I was to create a new series I would design a trilogy from beginning to end right off. That way you can plan better elvel pacing than the originals and allow the player to use the same character throughout each game.

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I agree with many of the sentiments expressed here. I never actually felt KotOR 2 is a direct sequel to K1, actually it's a spin-off; different characters, different altogether story.

 

I think it would have been a great idea to make each KotOR game it's own story and independent of what happened in the one before. Not that I wouldn't like seeiing the games related to each other, just not to have to depend on one another to complete the story. Since K2 finished the way it did, it would be downright poor judgment not to have K3 be a direct sequel, and I actually mean a direct sequel, not a new PC with completely new party picking up where Exile left off. All of this is level stuff aside, I only mean this from a storyline development perspective. How to balance the game to work like that, I don't know only for K2's story to have closure we need K3 to pick up with the Exile where he/she left off and if we can tie that directly with Revan, then all the better making all three games a true trilogy.

 

I do wish they'd manage to get all the other stuff people complain about (Making it more challenging, using true d20, all of that) but for me the most important part sadly if that the story be delivered right and completed as it deserves.

 

And for all of those others wishing non-Jedi PC classes, there should be a new line of RPGs with that feature implemented. Though that's aside from this so I won't get into that.

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is the star wars rpg too much of a niche market? the reason i ask is because they only work on one rpg game at a time, rather than working on, like suggested, a conclusion to the kotor revan/exile saga AND work on a different sw rpg in a different setting allowing non-force user pcs.

 

i realize this is a common practice to only release one "type" of game at a time, but if the star wars rpg has become this popular, then why not hire more than one developer to work on these games? (this is just an example, so insert any 2 developers if you wish) for example, have obsidian finish up the kotor3 revan/exile saga, while at the same time have troika or bioware work on the new sw rpg title.

 

i mean look at ea sports and football or basketball. in one season and approximately around the same time, they have both college and professional games released. but perhaps the star wars rpg market isnt big enough to warrant this?

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is the star wars rpg too much of a niche market?  the reason i ask is because they only work on one rpg game at a time, rather than working on, like suggested, a conclusion to the kotor revan/exile saga AND work on a different sw rpg in a different setting allowing non-force user pcs.

 

i realize this is a common practice to only release one "type" of game at a time, but if the star wars rpg has become this popular, then why not hire more than one developer to work on these games?  (this is just an example, so insert any 2 developers if you wish) for example, have obsidian finish up the kotor3 revan/exile saga, while at the same time have troika or bioware work on the new sw rpg title.

 

i mean look at ea sports and football or basketball.  in one season and approximately around the same time, they have both college and professional games released.  but perhaps the star wars rpg market isnt big enough to warrant this?

 

Hard to say Night.

 

I personally dont think KotOR is a accurate depiction of the Star Wars market.

 

Take myself for example, I play KotOR series because its a RPG game, not because its Star Wars. I tried the republic demo after finishing KotOR2 and it fell into my exact catagory of what I think of most star Wars games.....crap (more FPS garbage).

 

KotOR has managed to cross over and grab players that traditionally dont play Star Wars games.

 

So while I think they COULD work on parts 3 and 4 of the KotOR series at the same time, it stops at that. It doesnt mean Commando 9082501293560139561903 of the Republic will sell anywhere near what KotOR does.

 

Also, while not directly connected, one has to also take into account how many people are getting turned off on star wars gaming because of the shabby job Sony Online is doing with Star Wars Galaxies. I can say with out a doubt if I played SWG BEFORE KotOR1, I probably would never have purchased Knights1. Different companies sure but one does effect the other in terms of the genre. As it stands, KotOR2 forced me to cancel my SWG accounts because while one product was like 95% (i never give 100%) the other was like 30% and it was just so obvious. With out see KotOR2 and what Star Wars COULD be, I probably would be trudging away in SWG as we speak.

 

Anyways, I think LA and Obsidian just playing it careful and smart at the moment. KotOR series may be a success, that doesnt mean anything else will be. And they dont want to burn everyone out on the series to fast by overloading the market.

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is the star wars rpg too much of a niche market?  the reason i ask is because they only work on one rpg game at a time, rather than working on, like suggested, a conclusion to the kotor revan/exile saga AND work on a different sw rpg in a different setting allowing non-force user pcs.

 

i realize this is a common practice to only release one "type" of game at a time, but if the star wars rpg has become this popular, then why not hire more than one developer to work on these games?  (this is just an example, so insert any 2 developers if you wish) for example, have obsidian finish up the kotor3 revan/exile saga, while at the same time have troika or bioware work on the new sw rpg title.

 

i mean look at ea sports and football or basketball.  in one season and approximately around the same time, they have both college and professional games released.  but perhaps the star wars rpg market isnt big enough to warrant this?

 

Well Knight, I'm not very well versed in what companies exist that create games of the RPG genre and are good at it. My experience with RPGs (Both tabletop and VG) is very limited; other than Baldur's Gate 2, KotOR and Neverwinter Nights which I'm playing for the first time as we speak I haven't much more knowledge of this type of game. I don't include any Final Fantasy or Phantasy Star games that I played on consoles years ago, I don't see them really as RPGs at least like these. So aside from Bioware and now Obsidian, I'm very clueless who else exists that makes good RPGs; I recall Black Isle which disbanded (Many of these people now in Obsidian I believe) but asides these copanies I don't know. I never played PS:T or Morrowind so I don't know who made them.

 

I suppose the lack of RPGs might be related to the lack of developers that exist creating in this genre? It seems now days RPGs has just become synonimous with MMORPG and almost all RPGs that come out are online games, a trend I don't like at all. SP RPGs become fewer as far as I can see, especially in PCs which is what I use, so what few devs exist tackle limited projects.

 

I would love to see KotOR 3 finish up the series as I mentioned above, after that if there's any more KotOR games I want them to be so far unrelated that maybe the only link between them is the title of Knights and maybe a line that says oh yeah when Revan did this 1,000 years ago or something like that, otherwise KotOR 3 is just fine with me as the last entry in the series. The idea of Knights post-RotJ only has appeal to me if it is 1000s of years after RotJ, not close to the movie period and especially nowhere near NJO, if a Knights is made for much later than the movies then awesome, if not then fine. And an RPG made where non-Jedi PCs exist I'm all for also, all I ever was against was that KotOR were one of these as the games revolve around the Jedi to begin with, but a new RPG KotOR style or different with non-Jedi as protagonists would be great to see. If I'm lucky, someday maybe I'll get to see K3 done right to finish the saga and the new RPG with non-Jedi, anything else would be just a bonus for me.

 

I played Galaxies also, the only concept I liked about that game was the ability to move around vast cities and move freely throughout the countrysides, etc in between. Everything else I hated, and after my original 3 months expired I never again rejoined nor will I ever. But I would love to see more RPGs like KotOR with different variations in style, era, etc developed in the long run, as KotOR is my fave SW game of all time.

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Sounds like you want to pull a Curse of Monkey Island.

 

That game sucked.


I made this half-pony half-monkey monster to please you

But I get the feeling that you don't like it

What's with all the screaming?

You like monkeys, you like ponies

Maybe you don't like monsters so much

Maybe I used too many monkeys

Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?

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That way you can plan better elvel pacing than the originals and allow the player to use the same character throughout each game.

That way we could also have about 6-7 character levels per installment instead of 20-25. :)


manthing2.jpg

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Exactly my thinking, Jaguar.

 

I already have a storyline that would fit in the KotOR theme style of being in the far past yet be far enough along from the first two.

 

Hmm... Don't know it would be allowable by Georgie boy nor I don't think it would be acceptable by the Star Wars fanboys.

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Sounds like you want to pull a Curse of Monkey Island.

 

That game sucked.

 

If you were directing this at me I'm afraid I have no idea what you mean, never played that game. All I want is an ending to an unfinished story began in KotOR 2.

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Sounds like you want to pull a Curse of Monkey Island.

 

That game sucked.

 

If you were directing this at me I'm afraid I have no idea what you mean, never played that game. All I want is an ending to an unfinished story began in KotOR 2.

 

Oh, no, not directed at anyone in particular. Just noting the resemblances between what you propose and the Monkey Island series, which started out with one self-contained game, then went on to a sequel which played well but ended on a really bizarre note a lot of people didn't like. So the Developers who made the third one virtually pretended the second one didn't exist, giving the second's ending only a cursory mention at the start of the game. >_<


I made this half-pony half-monkey monster to please you

But I get the feeling that you don't like it

What's with all the screaming?

You like monkeys, you like ponies

Maybe you don't like monsters so much

Maybe I used too many monkeys

Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?

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Oh gotcha. :)

 

Well I don't think I'd like to see a KotOR 3 that would pretend KotOR 2 didn't happen, if I understodd correctly that's what the Monkey Island did? No, I would just like KotOR 3 to deliver the ending to the storyline begun in KotOR 2. For me this means that the Exile must be the protagonist once again (Leveling issues aside) and if they actually want to make a true trilogy out of the games then Revan might be also a protagonist or in the very least an extremely prominent role in the third game.

 

I know some people want a new PC but I really don't, while I know it would be lame to come up with some reason for Exile/Revam to start again from level 1 or a little higher like BG 2, I find it even more dumb to have yet another new Padawan wannabe takeover.

I mean Revan left to find the true Sith, then Exile leaves to find Revan, so now what the third character is leaving to find both Revan and Exile, what's the fourth going to be a new guy looking for Revan, Exile and the third PC?

I think they should just give the story of KotOR 2 and the character of Exile closure before they move on to someone new in a new story, that is if they do that at all.

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LA should just create an expansion and soonet rather than later.


And by the light of the moon

He prays for their beauty not doom

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LA should just create an expansion and soonet rather than later.

 

i still think thats how the conclusion to kotor2 (whether they call it kotor3, or kotor2: expansion is not important to me) should be. I don't want them to spend a year or 2 implementing new features or upgrading the graphics. I want similar game play (but more difficult combat and smarter enemies) and a story that will wrap up the revan/exile saga.

 

THEN they can move on to their new, 2 or whatever years development of a new game.

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The only problem with expansions at least as far as my experience with them is that they usually aren't even as close as good as the original was. Obviously they're a lot smaller and basically add only a thing or two.

 

If the devs decide to end the game in that way I won't complain, as an ending is all I'm interested in seeing at this point. But of course I'd like it more to be a fully fleshed out game even more than a simple addon. I do hope though that the resolution goes beyond only a single ending for each alignment, probably too much to ask but a different experience at least few times when the game ends adds a lot more replay value and more appreciation for me.

 

Still either one works for me, as long as the story and characters come full circle I'll be more than satisfied and happy.

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